Management dysfunction - The mess Katz made

[McDNicks17]

We definitely should agree to disagree at this point.

The difference is that there is a preponderance of evidence on one side and virtually nothing on the other side.

I find it perplexing that you would choose to reside in the vacuum.

To be fair, there's more evidence on the other side. It's just been dismissed by "of course they'll say/do that".

 

[Soundwave]

So Todd and Peter did a bad job here because Coffey was hired over their head?

Is that the excuse now? Paul Coffey is the one who made several terrible franchise altering trades, signed Lucic for 7 years, signed Russell for 4 years, bet the farm on Slepyhsev, Benning, and Caggiula, capped out the team, ran the PP, ran the PK, was the one who refused to try McDavid + RNH for almost 3 years?

Exactly what does that meaningless hire have to do with the state of the team?

 

[bone]

So Todd and Peter did a bad job here because Coffey was hired over their head?

Is that the excuse now?

Your grasping at straws. I don't think anyone is using this to absolve Chia/TMc, but if stuff like this is happening it is a bad sign for Edmonton.

 

[CupofOil]

Did anybody actually think that the OBC (extension of Katz) didn't have major input in hockey decisions? Come on guys.

None of these "internal battles" surprise me in the least. As long as Katz owns the team, the OBC will be involved. It is what it is.

 

[Soundwave]

Your grasping at straws. I don't think anyone is using this to absolve Chia/TMc, but if stuff like this is happening it is a bad sign for Edmonton.

Paul Coffey hiring would is the least of the problems this team has. So far down the list it's laughable.

 

[Soundwave]

Did anybody actually think that the OBC (extension of Katz) didn't have major input in hockey decisions? Come on guys.

None of these "internal battles" surprise me in the least. As long as Katz owns the team, the OBC will be involved. It is what it is.

What move exactly has Chiarelli made that you think was interfered with?

 

[guymez]

To be fair, there's more evidence on the other side. It's just been dismissed by "of course they'll say/do that".

Please do post some of this evidence. Or at least something that supports your opinion.

 

[bone]

Paul Coffey hiring would is the least of the problems this team has. So far down the list it's laughable.

Your right Paul Coffey isn't what the issue is, and whether he specifically is part of the coaching isn't the biggest problem facing the Oilers.

However, the issue people are actually discussing is meddling owners or OBC members because historically things get bad when that starts to happen. Is it currently the biggest issue this team. Hell no, but it could spiral quickly if there is truth to it.

But go ahead keep high jacking this into another #FireChia thread.

 

[Soundwave]

Your right Paul Coffey isn't what the issue is, and whether he specifically is part of the coaching isn't the biggest problem facing the Oilers.

However, the issue people are actually discussing is meddling owners or OBC members because historically things get bad when that starts to happen. Is it currently the biggest issue this team. Hell no, but it could spiral quickly if there is truth to it.

But go ahead keep high jacking this into another #FireChia thread.

"The mess" this organization is in has nothing to do with the Coffey thing then. No one is arguing that, so then why make a mountain of that mole hill.

This team is a "mess" for reasons way beyond that little move to bring him to help some of the kids on this team.

 

[CM4]

Jason Strudwick on 1260 just said he thinks someone in upper management leaked the red wine club to spector.

 

[McDNicks17]

Please do post some of this evidence. Or at least something that supports your opinion.

Everything Chia and Nicholson has done in hockey operations is the evidence.

I'm arguing they're acting on their own volition. What you see is what you get. That's the evidence.

If you don't think that's true, it's on you to prove that the strings and puppet master exists.

 

[bone]

"The mess" this organization is in has nothing to do with the Coffey thing then. No one is arguing that, so then why make a mountain of that mole hill.

This team is a "mess" for reasons way beyond that little move to bring him to help some of the kids on this team.

I can agree with that. I think we can all agree that things look messy right now. Probably even messier than when the season ended last Saturday as this week really shows that something bad is going on.

 

[MoneyGuy]

#deathspiral

 

[CupofOil]

What move exactly has Chiarelli made that you think was interfered with?

The Reinhart trade for one. Not absolving Chia of blame, my point was more that the OBC will always be involved in hockey operations in some way shape or form as long as Katz is owner.

This stuff about Lowe not being involved in hockey ops is a load of bs IMO. From the moment Coffey was brought in, I just knew that there would be a push for him to be hired to the coaching staff and I expect that to be announced in the coming weeks. I knew that MacT would be GM or coach again the moment he was brought back. I've come to accept it for what it is.

 

[Soundwave]

The Reinhart trade for one. Not absolving Chia of blame, my point was more that the OBC will always be involved in hockey operations in some way shape or form as long as Katz is owner.

This stuff about Lowe not being involved in hockey ops is a load of bs IMO. From the moment Coffey was brought in, I just knew that there would be a push for him to be hired to the coaching staff and I expect that to be announced in the coming weeks. I knew that MacT would be GM or coach again the moment he was brought back. I've come to accept it for what it is.

That trade IMO is on Chiarelli. He tried to get Dougie Hamilton for that package ... that was actually where that came from, it wasn't randomly out of nowhere.

Boston knew Chia was trying to f*** them because he knew they didn't have the money to sign Hamilton. So they basically f***ed Chia back by forcing him to overpay massively once they got confirmation from Calgary that the Flames were interested.

Chia pissed off was hellbent on getting some kind of D for that package (because once they make the pick it lowers the value of the pick), with the clock ticking he probably asked his staff for options, Bob Green probably suggested Reinhart, Chia agreed.

But that trade stems pretty assuredly from the failed Hamilton situation, those picks were supposed to be for Dougie Hamilton. He should have pulled back once the trade couldn't be accomplished, but it seems to be like he was hellbent on getting any D. Ultimately the buck stops at his desk, I seriously doubt Bob Green held him at gunpoint and said "you better trade for Reinhart or else".

 

[CupofOil]

That trade IMO is on Chiarelli. He tried to get Dougie Hamilton for that package ... that was actually where that came from, it wasn't randomly out of nowhere.

Boston knew Chia was trying to **** them because he knew they didn't have the money to sign Hamilton. So they basically ****ed Chia back by forcing him to overpay massively once they got confirmation from Calgary that the Flames were interested.

Chia pissed off was hellbent on getting some kind of D for that package (because once they make the pick it lowers the value of the pick), with the clock ticking he probably asked his staff for options, Bob Green probably suggested Reinhart, Chia agreed.

But that trade stems pretty assuredly from the failed Hamilton situation, those picks were supposed to be for Dougie Hamilton. He should have pulled back once the trade couldn't be accomplished, but it seems to be like he was hellbent on getting any D. Ultimately the buck stops at his desk, I seriously doubt Bob Green held him at gunpoint and said "you better trade for Reinhart or else".

That trade had OBC written all over it. They had a hard on for Reinhart for years. Ultimately Chia gets the blame for pulling the trigger but I have no doubt that Reinhart was being pushed on him.

In any event, my general point is that the OBC has always had input in hockey decisions regardless of what they want us to believe. Just my opinion and I don't expect everybody to agree. Chia should still be fired either way but yes, I do believe there is a power struggle going on and that he doesn't have full autonomy.

 

[Soundwave]

That trade had OBC written all over it. They had a hard on for Reinhart for years. Ultimately Chia gets the blame for pulling the trigger but I have no doubt that Reinhart was being pushed on him.

In any event, my general point is that the OBC has always had input in hockey decisions regardless of what they want us to believe. Just my opinion and I don't expect everybody to agree. Chia should still be fired either way but yes, I do believe there is a power struggle going on and that he doesn't have full autonomy.

I don't see it. Chia has done exactly what Bruins fans told us he would do here.

Pretty much right down to the letter. I remember telling Bruins fans on the mains "Chia will learn from the Seguin situation and the cap situation he got himself into trouble with".

Nope. He's done exactly what they said he would do and what they saw first hand. I don't know really if we can claim ignorance now, we knew what we were getting into here.

 

[CupofOil]

I don't see it. Chia has done exactly what Bruins fans told us he would do here.

Pretty much right down to the letter. I remember telling Bruins fans on the mains "Chia will learn from the Seguin situation and the cap situation he got himself into trouble with".

Nope. He's done exactly what they said he would do and what they saw first hand. I don't know really if we can claim ignorance now, we knew what we were getting into here.

Yes but I stand by what I said about the Reinhart trade.

 

[Soundwave]

Yes but I stand by what I said about the Reinhart trade.

I do think Bob Green suggested it, but I think Chia is the one that decided to do it in the end.

They were gonna trade that 16th and 33rd pick for anyone suitable D option, seems like they were hell bent on it.

Once the Hamilton deal went south (literally), that's the option they chose as plan B.

We were in big trouble with this management basically right from the start, had this whole fiasco not happened we'd be I think in a much better place today.

 

[CupofOil]

I do think Bob Green suggested it, but I think Chia is the one that decided to do it in the end.

They were gonna trade that 16th and 33rd pick for anyone suitable D option, seems like they were hell bent on it.

Once the Hamilton deal went south (literally), that's the option they chose as plan B.

We were in big trouble with this management basically right from the start, had this whole fiasco not happened we'd be I think in a much better place today.

Agreed and to add, the Reinhart trade was by far the most damaging of all the Chia trades/ contracts.

 

[McBeastMode]

Jason Strudwick on 1260 just said he thinks someone in upper management leaked the red wine club to spector.

 

[guymez]

Everything Chia and Nicholson has done in hockey operations is the evidence.

I'm arguing they're acting on their own volition. What you see is what you get. That's the evidence.

If you don't think that's true, it's on you to prove that the strings and puppet master exists.

Myself and others have provided enough...you just choose to ignore it.

Cest la vie.

 

[belair]

I consider last season unexpected, which I did at the time. I do think a lot factored in. Opponents played us lightly, Talbot had a career year in the most important position in hockey.

My position has always been that this team was going to be considerably better JUST because they had McD and Drai.

To see how little overall improvement there has been from this season to two seasons ago is depressing.

This team should be MUCH better just because the two mentioned players are on it. the 15-16 version of the club only got 34 games of McD. This years team would be far worse if McD had only played 34 games this season. I shudder to think how bad it would be.

With the bolded I completely 100% agree. Connor McDavid and Leon Draisaitl are they key to a lot of doors that were locked for us without them.

As for this season, if McDavid were to miss a significant portion of time to injury it just would've piled onto the issues that plagued a roster that under-performed in many facets this season. A PK that spent 50 games in the record books of being one of the worst all-time, a PP that scored 30 goals all year, an over-worked goaltender who posted a SV% well below his career norm, and a defense that failed to execute to the level they had in the previous season.

I am just as disappointed as anyone that we've missed the playoffs this year, but I'm not seeing the same pessimism regarding the majority of our roster. Especially in comparison to the 2015/16 season where our defensive structure and competitiveness still left a lot to be desired.

When you have two players like Connor and Leon who you've committed over a quarter of your payroll, you kind of have to expect them to carry more than their own bodyweight, which is why I see us realistically being successful with 'weaker' depth than other teams.

 

[rboomercat90]

I guess this proves the stories are bogus. Gretz isn’t drinking red wine.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

The Katz/Stauffer/Nicholson messaging machine is finally breaking down. No one ever wins a battle against the sports media, not even billionaires. This is going to get worse for all involved before it gets better.