Mackinnon vs Matthews

[avsfan09]

No, it's not correct.

It's McKinnon's other four years scoring 63, 38, 52 and 53 points that gives me pause.

Matthews is absolutely excelling from the get-go. And McKinnon started out nicely too. But then three years of so-so numbers makes him NOT a slam dunk yet.

I can see you using year three as an example but last season was so horrible I think he should be given some leeway and actually think it's impressive producing as much as he did.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

No, it's not correct.

It's McKinnon's other four years scoring 63, 38, 52 and 53 points that gives me pause.

Matthews is absolutely excelling from the get-go. And McKinnon started out nicely too. But then three years of so-so numbers makes him NOT a slam dunk yet.

That's a convenient set of parameters

Matthews has never played at the level that MacKinnon is at right now. Neither had MacKinnon, until he started doing it. So you're gonna bet on the guy who has never played at that level, over the guy who has started playing at that level over the majority of a whole season? Gotcha.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Obviously I voted for Matthews and to those who voted for MacKinnon if this poll was asked last season when he and the Avalanche were playing horrible, would anyone still have selected him? So I agree with the others who see this as a what have you done for me lately situation with MacKinnon.

 

[PAZ]

Obviously I voted for Matthews and to those who voted for MacKinnon if this poll was asked last season when he and the Avalanche were playing horrible, would anyone still have selected him? So I agree with the others who see this as a what have you done for me lately situation with MacKinnon.

It's almost like players develop and get better or worse!

 

[Plural]

MacKinnon has seemingly gotten to a level where Matthews still has yet to. Obvious differences in development, but still hard not to go with the proven talent over potential.

 

[firstemperor]

Matthews, to me, is more of a 40-35/45-35 guy at his best. He's a great player, but he's a level below MacKinnon.

Seems to be a pretty pessimistic opinion of Matthews (i.e. "40-35 guy at his best"). That's almost like saying he's almost peaked, as a rookie, with Hyman on his left side all year.

I expect his point totals to increase with time when he gets more optimal linemates (to a far lesser extent), minutes (Babcock's usage), and a better PP unit (which is really bringing down his point totals, as he's one of the best ES producers pace-wise in the league).

As per MacK's ceiling being a 100 point guy. I see that type of ceiling with Matthews as well, and guys like Eichel. Not many players, very short list.

I do think McDavid is definitively better than any of the aforementioned though. With him, I think his baseline productivity is a 90-105 point pace guy, in any given year.

So basically, yes, I do think Matthews is that good.

 

[slobbergob]

I think Mack's defensive game might be underrated here. You could count on one hand the players who are better moving the puck from the d zone to the o zone and really that's the most important aspect of defense.

 

[FlyRoutine]

Obviously I voted for Matthews and to those who voted for MacKinnon if this poll was asked last season when he and the Avalanche were playing horrible, would anyone still have selected him? So I agree with the others who see this as a what have you done for me lately situation with MacKinnon.

Leafslogic rule #69:
Player progression only applies to Leafs players.

 

[22FUTON9]

I think Mack's defensive game might be underrated here. You could count on one hand the players who are better moving the puck from the d zone to the o zone and really that's the most important aspect of defense.

Yeah I'll be honest his defensive play is nowhere near the established two way guys but as soon as he gets the puck and has a bit of space he's able to skate the puck up really well and helps exit the zone

 

[Holymakinaw]

So you're gonna bet on the guy who has never played at that level, over the guy who has started playing at that level over the majority of a whole season? Gotcha.

Meh.

Given his last three seasons, I'd just like to see more than one really good year from McKinnon first.

 

[LeafGrief]

Leafslogic rule #69:
Player progression only applies to Leafs players.

As opposed to people in this thread saying that Matthews will never develop to where Mackinnon has?

Here's a great example:

Which doesn't mean he isn't a great player. He absolutely is. I'm just not prepared to anoint him the top young player in the league until, well, you know, he shows he is. I think his realistic ceiling is a 75-80 point two-way player, and one of the better goal scorers. If he accomplishes that, that's an elite level, no doubt.

Matthews, to me, is more of a 40-35/45-35 guy at his best.

This is calling a "realistic ceiling" of 6-11 more points than his rookie year. This year, in a sample size of 53 games Matthews has 50 points. Over 82 games, that's 43 goals and 77 points. So apparently our sophomore player has already peaked in a season with injuries.

Utterly ridiculous to come into a thread where a guy explodes forward in development after his fourth year and then claim that the guy in his second year has hit his ceiling.

 

[Stephen23]

I have a bias towards both players. As much as I love MacKinnon (Former Moosehead and Halifax native), for me it's Matthews, and not relatively close (again for me). I have watched both play as teens and what I can tell you is that Matthews is a special talent. I am thrilled MacKinnon is finally fulfilling his promise that I saw with the Mooseheads. But for me, Auston Matthews will just be an elite player in the league.

 

[LeafsNation75]

As opposed to people in this thread saying that Matthews will never develop to where Mackinnon has?

Here's a great example:





This is calling a "realistic ceiling" of 6-11 more points than his rookie year. This year, in a sample size of 53 games Matthews has 50 points. Over 82 games, that's 43 goals and 77 points. So apparently our sophomore player has already peaked in a season with injuries.

Utterly ridiculous to come into a thread where a guy explodes forward in development after his fourth year and then claim that the guy in his second year has hit his ceiling.

It's also ridiculous that some non Leafs fans think Matthews will be injury prone for the rest of his career. No one really knows how Matthews suffered his back injury however his concussion when he collided with Rielly and his shoulder injury when he got crunched by two Islanders players, those were fluke accidents.

 

[tucker3434]

As opposed to people in this thread saying that Matthews will never develop to where Mackinnon has?

Here's a great example:





This is calling a "realistic ceiling" of 6-11 more points than his rookie year. This year, in a sample size of 53 games Matthews has 50 points. Over 82 games, that's 43 goals and 77 points. So apparently our sophomore player has already peaked in a season with injuries.

Utterly ridiculous to come into a thread where a guy explodes forward in development after his fourth year and then claim that the guy in his second year has hit his ceiling.

While I don’t think that projection is particularly realistic either, the difference is that MacKinnon already has developed and with Matthews it’s something that hasn’t happened yet.

So when people bring up the, “what have you done for me lately” argument, lately for MacKinnon is smashing through what everyone had previously thought he was capable of and having a Hart contention season. It isn’t just a case of MacKinnon outperforming Matthews this year. It’s that he’s outperforming pretty much everyone. That’s the reason these polls have reversed in the last year.

 

[bobholly39]

Voted Matthews.

Matthews is more of a sure thing. Based on his rookie year, his play this year, his draft etc....I'm very confident in what I get, with a potential for him to get even better and better over time.

Mack? Very, very tempting. And i've always been high on him in terms of ceiling. But his last few years are too big a concern for me to ignore them and pass on Matthews. If this was a year from now and Mack was repeating this year next year? I'd pick him. But as of now there's still enough of a risk that this season ends up being an outlier vs the new norm, and because of that i won't pass up on Matthews if given the chance.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Mackinnon now and going forward easily. Funny the only ones taking Matthews are the Leafs fans.

 

[LeafGrief]

While I don’t think that projection is particularly realistic either, the difference is that MacKinnon already has developed and with Matthews it’s something that hasn’t happened yet.

So when people bring up the, “what have you done for me lately” argument, lately for MacKinnon is smashing through what everyone had previously thought he was capable of and having a Hart contention season. It isn’t just a case of MacKinnon outperforming Matthews this year. It’s that he’s outperforming pretty much everyone. That’s the reason these polls have reversed in the last year.

I think that is a very reasonable stance. It is absolutely true that Matthews may never take that spike in development. Mackinnon is very much in the conversation for best player in the league this year and he deserves his props. I'm just taking issue with anyone who thinks that Matthews has peaked in his sophomore year. I think both sides of the AINEC club are both completely out to lunch in this poll.

 

[WillTheThrill]

Matthews really is the new Toews.

It's amazing.

Remember when people scoffed at the notion that Matthews was the next Toews? Now it's used as an insult because Matthews will be so much better of a player.

 

[Captain97]

I picked MacKinnon. Matthews is without a doubt the better player but when he gets 11mil a year is he 80% better than Mack?

 

[authentic]

Mackinnon now and going forward easily. Funny the only ones taking Matthews are the Leafs fans.

Maybe even funnier that someone can't see how a player who was better at 19 than the other was until 22 could end up being the better player.

 

[PeterForsberg]

Maybe even funnier that someone can't see how a player who was better at 19 than the other was until 22 could end up being the better player.

Brohiem, matthews is 20 and Mackinnon is 22. Are you gonna say no to having intercourse with a female if you're 22 and she's 20? Nah cus that difference is practically irrelevant.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Remember when people scoffed at the notion that Matthews was the next Toews? Now it's used as an insult because Matthews will be so much better of a player.

I think it started when TSN ranked Matthews #10 on their top 50 list and the non Leafs fans hated that. So it was almost the same way they use to rank Toews at #2 and everyone said he did not belong at that spot.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Tough question. Matthews was better last year, but Mac has shows he is one of the NHL's best this year. Mac has a great contract where as Matthews is a question mark at the moment. I'm on the fence.

 

[Nosferatu]

So whats the point? Should we think contract? If contractwice then Mac but if we think who is gonna be better for my team in the future then Matt

 

[Maplebeasts]

Matthews' 4 goals in his first game isn't particularly relevant to him having an extra gear. That was a great first game, and it will be a moment that people bring up in hockey trivia for a while, but it isn't an example of anything except that he had a great first game.

Edit: Personally, I think MacKinnon will be the better player when it's all said and done. Development isn't a straight line. Players develop at different rates, and they play in different environments that can contribute to that development. Maybe MacKinnon doesn't repeat this season, but I don't think he has to if he's going to stay the better player.

I think MacKinnon's skillset is such that he could end up with multiple 90+ point seasons, and I'm only saying 90+ points because it's so difficult to have multiple 100 point seasons. It's a very short list of players who I think can accomplish that, and MacKinnon happens to be one of them.

Matthews, to me, is more of a 40-35/45-35 guy at his best. He's a great player, but he's a level below MacKinnon.

This is wrong. Matthews has the resume of a 90-100 point player going in to the NHL. Beat Patrick Kane's scoring records in juniors, near PPG as a sophomore while having horrendous luck on the PP, top 3 goal scorer in league at 5v5 and in all situations when healthy over his rookie and sophomore seasons. Puts up more points per minute played than most other superstar forwards in the game. There is nothing that suggests he tops out at 75-80 points other than your opinion, and there isn't really a lot to put Mackinnon ahead going forward until we know this Mackinnon is the one we're getting from here on out. It's going to be interesting to see if Mackinnon touches this year's totals again next year or if he reverts to being an average first liner.