Lightning Rod Hyman: the pyrrhic battle continues

[hotpaws]

never forget that babs loves brownie's grit and hustle, and guaranteed him a spot last year (on the pk as well), even after a lackluster training camp.

babs just expected jvr and/or bozak to be gone already, is all. he never thought he'd have to make this choice. but just know that it kills him a little bit to have brownie on the 4th line.

I agree he does really like Brown and i think mgmt's summer plan was to sign Marleau , trade JVR and leave Brown with Kads . Unfortunately they couldn't find an acceptable deal for JVR and now Browns stuck playing on the 4th .

to bad it would kill him more to demote Hyman , lol

 

[White Shadow]

Isn't that exactly what Josh Leivo was\is supposed to be? Maybe they could, you know, just try playing him on that wing?

Zero chance Nylander scores that goal Wednesday night with Leivo on his wing.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Ok, but what is the cap hit on those guys you mention?

Larkin: $925,000
Hoffman: $5,187,500
Duchene and Mackinnon are $6 and $6.3 Million respectively,

Hyman: $2,250,000

Larkin is cheaper and a better option (especially when you factor in age). For less than 4 million in spare cap you can have Hoffman or Duchene. For slightly more than 4 million you can add Mackinnon. For a team that wanted to sign Stamkos, while it's fans want to sign Tavares, I'm sure guys like Larkin and Hoffman would be additions everyone would love even at the cost of Hyman. Regardless the point wasn't to trade Hyman for these players as 1) it's unrealistic because of 2) they are all valuable for bringing to the table the exact thing Hyman doesn't bring to the table, offense.

The point was that these players are some of the fastest in the league (something Kapanen is right now) and I don't think they would hinder Matthews and Nylander at all.

I do agree they could do well with those players too I mean how couldn't they. My worry is we go back to having a rush line like the Kessel days and though they would have a way better 2 way game why come down for 1 shot then have to play defense again? I would rather a 40 second shift in the offensive zone wearing out the other team and goalie.
I've stated before that Tkachuk would be my dream player for Hyman's spot.

I get what you're saying, I'm sure that plays a reason in Babs decision to make Hyman a staple on that line for the time being. I guess I personally don't think Hyman is the reason for the success of that line when it comes to possession. While maybe the eyes say Hyman is the main cog, at the end of the day it's not Hyman with the best possession stats, it's not even Matthews. It's the possession beast Nylander. I personally think removing the player with the worst possession stat of the three won't disrupt the line too much. Maybe the style of play differs a bit, but I think any line with Nylander and Matthews remains dominant.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Zero chance Nylander scores that goal Wednesday night with Leivo on his wing.

Why?

 

[RLF]

Larkin: $925,000
Hoffman: $5,187,500
Duchene and Mackinnon are $6 and $6.3 Million respectively,

Hyman: $2,250,000

Larkin is cheaper and a better option (especially when you factor in age). For less than 4 million in spare cap you can have Hoffman or Duchene. For slightly more than 4 million you can add Mackinnon. For a team that wanted to sign Stamkos, while it's fans want to sign Tavares, I'm sure guys like Larkin and Hoffman would be additions everyone would love even at the cost of Hyman. Regardless the point wasn't to trade Hyman for these players as 1) it's unrealistic because of 2) they are all valuable for bringing to the table the exact thing Hyman doesn't bring to the table, offense.

The point was that these players are some of the fastest in the league (something Kapanen is right now) and I don't think they would hinder Matthews and Nylander at all.

ONLY $4 million in more cap space. Larkin is last year ELC and is likely to get a big raise. So, when Matthews is making $10ish, Nylander and Marner $10-$13 combined likely...I'm curious where are you finding the only $4 mil extra in cap space?



I get what you're saying, I'm sure that plays a reason in Babs decision to make Hyman a staple on that line for the time being. I guess I personally don't think Hyman is the reason for the success of that line when it comes to possession. While maybe the eyes say Hyman is the main cog, at the end of the day it's not Hyman with the best possession stats, it's not even Matthews. It's the possession beast Nylander. I personally think removing the player with the worst possession stat of the three won't disrupt the line too much. Maybe the style of play differs a bit, but I think any line with Nylander and Matthews remains dominant.

 

[IPS]

Zero chance Nylander scores that goal Wednesday night with Leivo on his wing.

What kind of reasoning is this?

Zero chance he scores it without Matthews recovering and drop-passing to Gards. Zero chance he scores it without Gards making an insane fake-shot-pass right on the tape. Zero chance he scores it without Big Buff going out for an evening stroll at the blue-line. Zero chance he scores it without Maurice instilling potato-level defensive systems in the Jets.

 

[White Shadow]

Why?

Post #56 has the video of how that play started. Leivo would never have gotten to that puck, he's far too slow.

 

[RLF]

What kind of reasoning is this?

Zero chance he scores it without Matthews recovering and drop-passing to Gards. Zero chance he scores it without Gards making an insane fake-shot-pass right on the tape. Zero chance he scores it without Big Buff going out for an evening stroll at the blue-line. Zero chance he scores it without Maurice instilling potato-level defensive systems in the Jets.

He is saying because it was Hyman's speed that caused the no icing and tied up the initial D. Without that, none of the rest of the events happen. Leivo doesn't have that speed, so he has a point.

 

[IPS]

He is saying because it was Hyman's speed that caused the no icing and tied up the initial D. Without that, none of the rest of the events happen. Leivo doesn't have that speed, so he has a point.

Pleaes read this and understand the type of logic that Hyman defenders love to employ.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

 

[PuckMagi]

Zero chance Nylander scores that goal Wednesday night with Leivo on his wing.

Apparently Leivo can't stand in front of the net?

 

[White Shadow]

Apparently Leivo can't stand in front of the net?

Many of the fans who fail to see the value of Hyman are like this. They only watch half the play, like an NFL fan who only watches the QB.

 

[RLF]

Pleaes read this and understand the type of logic that Hyman defenders love to employ.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

You relate this to the slippery slope? Then wouldn't those who say Hyman is holding the line back or we should replace Hyman with Leivo/Brown etc be doing the same thing?

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Post #56 has the video of how that play started. Leivo would never have gotten to that puck, he's far too slow.

I would've gotten to that puck before Leivo too (probably before Hyman as well ), but that does not mean I would help that line be more productive.

We can say, for certainty, that X goal would have or would not have happened. Making statements like that in a vacuum is silly.

 

[IPS]

You relate this to the slippery slope? Then wouldn't those who say Hyman is holding the line back or we should replace Hyman with Leivo/Brown etc be doing the same thing?

You're not understanding what I'm saying. None of what I posted is in relation to Leivo/Brown playing with Matthews/Willy.

 

[RLF]

You're not understanding what I'm saying. None of what I posted is in relation to Leivo/Brown playing with Matthews/Willy.

Ummm, that was your response to him saying Nylander doesn't score that goal with Leivo on the wing. How else should anyone take it?[/QUOTE]

 

[hotpaws]

Post #56 has the video of how that play started. Leivo would never have gotten to that puck, he's far too slow.

what % chance do you give Hyman scoring the goal Marleau did ? and i'm sure Marleau would be quick enough to prevent that icing .

 

[White Shadow]

what % chance do you give Hyman scoring the goal Marleau did ? and i'm sure Marleau would be quick enough to prevent that icing .

The discussion has been Leivo vs Hyman, not sure why you are bringing Marleau into this.

Marleau is on a different line to bring balance and depth to the lineup, that is an entirely different discussion.

 

[hotpaws]

The discussion has been Leivo vs Hyman, not sure why you are bringing Marleau into this.

Marleau is on a different line to bring balance and depth to the lineup, that is an entirely different discussion.

difference excuse to defend Hyman's spot for every player and i'll take your response as 0%

 

[White Shadow]

difference excuse to defend Hyman's spot for every player and i'll take your response as 0%

There is no excuse needed to defend a player's spot when given by this coach. The team is winning beyond anyone's expectations. The onus would actually be on others to prove why a change is necessary.

For some reason you are trying to break this down to who is faster, Marleau or Hyman, not a great arguement.

 

[hotpaws]

There is no excuse needed to defend a player's spot when given by this coach. The team is winning beyond anyone's expectations. The onus would actually be on others to prove why a change is necessary.

For some reason you are trying to break this down to who is faster, Marleau or Hyman, not a great arguement.

the goal should be to continue to improve the team which they are doing not to stand pat

the team shocked most people by making the playoffs last year yet still decided to try to improve by signing Marleau and breaking up last years successful top 9 as opposed to standing pat like you seem to be suggesting

and i'm not trying to break down who is faster i'm trying to tell you that Marleau or another player would bring more overall to AM's line than Hyman

 

[The Apologist]

Apparently Leivo can't stand in front of the net?

see below

He is saying because it was Hyman's speed that caused the no icing and tied up the initial D. Without that, none of the rest of the events happen. Leivo doesn't have that speed, so he has a point.

There is no excuse needed to defend a player's spot when given by this coach. The team is winning beyond anyone's expectations. The onus would actually be on others to prove why a change is necessary.

For some reason you are trying to break this down to who is faster, Marleau or Hyman, not a great arguement.

You're wasting your time.

 

[White Shadow]

the goal should be to continue to improve the team which they are doing not to stand pat

the team shocked most people by making the playoffs last year yet still decided to try to improve by signing Marleau and breaking up last years successful top 9 as opposed to standing pat like you seem to be suggesting

and i'm not trying to break down who is faster i'm trying to tell you that Marleau or another player would bring more overall to AM's line than Hyman

Of course he would, that's why you see Babs throw out Willie, Matthews and one of Kadri, Marner, Marleau etc. after a PK.

It's a little short sighted though to not look at what happens to line that Marleau leaves though.

You also have to consider the cap implications of getting more scoring from just the Matthews line when they have yet to sign their first contract post ELC.

 

[saltming]

to be honest, I like continually bringing up the Hyman problem because unlike the defenders, I actually don't think babcock will permanently glue him to matthews' wing. I know babcock is smart enough to see the better fit, and will change eventually.

Well I've seen many posts from Hyman defenders that acknowledge that at some point he will be replaced on the Matthews line. So not sure if your blanket statement holds true.

 

[saltming]

I get what you're saying, I'm sure that plays a reason in Babs decision to make Hyman a staple on that line for the time being. I guess I personally don't think Hyman is the reason for the success of that line when it comes to possession. While maybe the eyes say Hyman is the main cog, at the end of the day it's not Hyman with the best possession stats, it's not even Matthews. It's the possession beast Nylander. I personally think removing the player with the worst possession stat of the three won't disrupt the line too much. Maybe the style of play differs a bit, but I think any line with Nylander and Matthews remains dominant.

I don't think anyone is saying Hyman is the key to the line success. Personally I think hockey is a team sport. In hockey it's important that all the lines play well.
Hyman is a cog in that line that keeps it running smooth. Doesn't drive it; isn't irreplaceable or something out Landis like that.
My opinion is Hyman is the best suited player on our team at the moment to do what he is doing, nothing more nothing less.

 

[frizzer1]

The Hyman discussion goes on and on yet no one can say what would happen if someone else were on that line....because babcock has never tried anyone else..