Lightning Rod Hyman: the pyrrhic battle continues

[Walshy7]

This. Anyone who thinks that the "message" was meant for Marner alone is mistaken.

yeah that's not only on marner, the line NEEDED a decent defensive forward on it. Unfortunately Marner is the odd man out. They look better because its 2 one way forwards and good 2way forward now instead of 3 one way, marner will be better for the demotion just like nylander is

 

[Mess]

I think Hyman is having the biggest impact on Nylander as a role model to commitment.

Hyman's shift in and shift out effort is infectious as a 2oo foot player and it appears Nylander is now following that same energy level at both ends similarly to Hyman.

Last year Nylander was criticized by Babcock for his effort and wanted him to be more engaged regular and not just when he had the puck. This year his effort is looking a lot more like Hyman his linemate who seems to be having a positive effect on him.

 

[RLF]

I think Hyman is having the biggest impact on Nylander as a role model to commitment.

Hyman's shift in and shift out effort is infectious as a 2oo foot player and it appears Nylander is now following that same energy level at both ends similarly to Hyman.

Last year Nylander was criticized by Babcock for his effort and wanted him to be more engaged regular and not just when he had the puck. This year his effort is looking a lot more like Hyman his linemate who seems to be having a positive effect on him.

This is part of what some of us have been saying is the intangible of Hyman on the line. It is very difficult to take a night/shift off when a guy on the line never seems to. Your shift/night off stands out more. He keeps both them honest on effort and Nylander more so. Funny how many think that aspect doesn't actually help production when guys don't take nights off.

 

[Gary Nylund]

So far I'm eating a lot of crow re: Hyman

Amazing how good that can taste sometimes, am I right?

considering when the man goes "the tie goes to the vet." it was clearly a shot across the bow to all three of them, IMO and sort of that "protection/safe environment" Babcock wants to cultivate. you can argue why a 2nd year player can be moved (even as talented as Mitch) but it is drah.mah if it had been JVR/Bozak. (even though i am team: who cares and nail their bum to the press box)

Yes! I'd forgotten that quote but that's as clear as it gets.

 

[Mess]

This is part of what some of us have been saying is the intangible of Hyman on the line. It is very difficult to take a night/shift off when a guy on the line never seems to. Your shift/night off stands out more. He keeps both them honest on effort and Nylander more so. Funny how many think that aspect doesn't actually help production when guys don't take nights off.

Hyman who plays like the energizer bunny, can't help but draw his linemates into battle with him as the energy level of the line rises.

The gap last year in effort between Zach and Willie was noticeable and now this year its negligible.

Besides it seems his linemates are also have a positive effect on him offensively.

Season ...... 7 games 3 goals 2 assists 5 points & +6 +/- projects to a 82 pace of 35 goals 23 assists 59 points & +70. (with Zero PP time)

Now he is never going to realistically maintain that pace without PP TOI/g also but it should limit criticism for him playing on the top line when he plays like he has. IMO

 

[Savvy]

Structure stifles skill, chaos destroys structure and skill shines in chaos.

Glad to see Hyman improving things. His edges look better this season, they were awful last season. He’s also getting better with his patience. It’s not quite what I’d call good yet but improved none the less.

 

[RLF]

Hyman who plays like the energizer bunny, can't help but draw his linemates into battle with him as the energy level of the line rises.

The gap last year in effort between Zach and Willie was noticeable and now this year its negligible.

Besides it seems his linemates are also have a positive effect on him offensively.

Season ...... 7 games 3 goals 2 assists 5 points & +6 +/- projects to a 82 pace of 35 goals 23 assists 59 points & +70. (with Zero PP time)

Now he is never going to realistically maintain that pace without PP TOI/g also but it should limit criticism for him playing on the top line when he plays like he has. IMO

Agreed. The only thing I would say different is that I thought Willie's effort was quite good second half last season. Babcock sent him a message during the season and it seemed to sink in. I have said if Hyman gets above 10 goals and 30-40 pts playing the way he does and no PP. I am good with that. He helps production in other ways that never hit the score sheet. Also allows us to spread out the offence.

 

[Diddy]

I really didn't like him at the start of the season and seeing him with the puck brings me pain but, he's improved a lot this season and I've been impressed. Good on him. He's a good part of the line.

 

[Walshy7]

I think if Marner was playing well and the other two were not...one of them would have been moved. Mitch was not playing well though, has the least experience and also the easiest to still teach and develop the right habits moving forward.

Basically I think it was by Babcock ...hey kid, you want to be a core player here going forward, not gonna happen playing like that. Let's work on some things.
Vets-I expect better form you two, you know better. Smarten up. Don't put me in a position where I have to embarrass a vet.

Well played by Babcock.imo Let's hope we see results.

yea agree here, teach a core player a lesson and try to punish vets as best possible. Also I don't think either will be resigned so there really isn't a point in babcock punishing them for effore, basically "just score for me until the end of the season or one of you is traded" would be babcocks thinking

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

Structure stifles skill, chaos destroys structure and skill shines in chaos.

Glad to see Hyman improving things. His edges look better this season, they were awful last season. He’s also getting better with his patience. It’s not quite what I’d call good yet but improved none the less.

But, but stats!

 

[zeke]

But, but stats!

well, his stats are awesome this year.

 

[CanadasTeam]

Amazing how good that can taste sometimes, am I right?

Indeed. Love being on the right side of things from the get go -- in Babcock I trust.

 

[saltming]

The line works because Mathews and Nylander are elite level talents who have kicked it up another level and would produce with anyone , Hyman's simply a hard working passenger.

Brown has already shown he can do what Hyman does but with a much higher skill level and iq . It's not easy to make the Bozak/JVR combo look somewhat competent defensively but he has , albeit in a small sample size .

You're a poster lone on an island now. Can you see Robidas island from there?

 

[Kiwi]

You're a poster lone on an island now. Can you see Robidas island from there?

Now now Salt there's no need for that

As much as he got unlucky last season Hyman has had some things work in his favour this year with pucks hitting him and going in, he's doing the right thing crashing the net and getting in the goalies face though I'll give him that

 

[saltming]

Now now Salt there's no need for that

As much as he got unlucky last season Hyman has had some things work in his favour this year with pucks hitting him and going in, he's doing the right thing crashing the net and getting in the goalies face though I'll give him that

Well I'm still all about his hustle and ya i think his sh% will normalize this season. Luck or not I still see his value on the line.

 

[HogTown06]

I'm not sure if I'm imagining this or not but I think Nylander avoids passing to Hyman for a finish if at all possible. Maybe I'm reading too much into it but just last night on a 2 on 1 he decided to shoot, and Hyman was all alone with the goalie completely sold...

Hyman has been great behind the net though, great forechecker and he even works well as an extra body they can bounce pucks off for goals...

In all seriousness it's hard not to like the guy, 100% effort every game.

 

[saltming]

I'm not sure if I'm imagining this or not but I think Nylander avoids passing to Hyman for a finish if at all possible. Maybe I'm reading too much into it but just last night on a 2 on 1 he decided to shoot, and Hyman was all alone with the goalie completely sold...

Hyman has been great behind the net though, great forechecker and he even works well as an extra body they can bounce pucks off for goals...

In all seriousness it's hard not to like the guy, 100% effort every game.

If it's the play I'm thinking of the shot was the right choice. The defender was in good position for the pass.

 

[Kiwi]

Well I'm still all about his hustle and ya i think his sh% will normalize this season. Luck or not I still see his value on the line.

He does his job as well as you could hope for, but his shot still doesn't fill me with confidence, I think he'd be better served trying to jam in garbage around then net

 

[jrgtml67]

Actually Babcock said it was because he was the youngest that he was the odd man out. I believe him one. Say if JVR was the youngest he would be down, with Bozak a bit different because of our center depth. I sort of agree with the 2 defensive forwards, but Brown brings more to that line than that. He brings an infectious work ethic and we know he can score. So in that sense, you should gain offense. I feel somewhat bad for Marner here, but he has to learn. Some of it has been bad luck, or not his fault. Last night for example, Bozak and JVR had several grade A chances and did not convert. The good from that line was way more offensive zone time than thus far, due to Browns unrelenting fore check.

What I saw in Marner early was that he looked slow. Which should be the direct opposite, as he put on 10 lbs of mostly leg muscle in the off season. I think that his age is playing another role here. His confidence is at an all time low. Part of that is his doing, part is his line mates were not converting. So what happens, he cheats. By that I mean he was leaving the defensive zone early. Staying on a bit too long. Trying too hard to make the perfect play, instead of using his elite hockey sense.

Further I do not think we see him on the 4th line much longer. He is to valuable to be there. I understand Mike has said "even scoring throughout," well we have 17 different players on the board right now, so that is not a problem. The thing is Babcock will not show his complete hand to the media, or even to the players. He is a coaching genius. This move was the correct one. Reward the work of a player, showing that you work, you move up. Sadly Marner is the causualty, age, and him being a minus 7 contributing factors here. But does he stay down much longer, I think there is no chance that happens. He is simply too much of our offense. The other good part of this is Babcock ingeniously puts Marner on the PP still, so he gets ice time, and confidence. That last PP against Detroit he controlled the play heavily, while we did not score, part of that was Bozak and then JVR missing an open net (again). I think we see Mitch's next move either back with his mates or more likely, with Kadri. Want a guy to be better on defense, put him with a line that is known for it. In addition we have to get Marleau going here, and I think the issue on the line is Komarov. While he is good defensively he simply is not get the puck to Kadri or Marleau for any zone time. The only time that happens if Marleau wins the foot race or Kadri. Another good note Kadri looks real good. Who knew a coach could change a player so much. Just a small piece here, but Gardiner, jeeze. He looked so good the first couple games, and since NJ the puck is now a grenade on his stick. If he could ever get that confidence back the way Zaits is playing look out. On the positive, it is slowly seeming like Rielly may turn a corner here. Exciting times.

 

[saltming]

He does his job as well as you could hope for, but his shot still doesn't fill me with confidence, I think he'd be better served trying to jam in garbage around then net

I'm pretty sure that's his game: Zach the garbage lightning rod Hyman

 

[saltming]

Actually Babcock said it was because he was the youngest that he was the odd man out. I believe him one. Say if JVR was the youngest he would be down, with Bozak a bit different because of our center depth. I sort of agree with the 2 defensive forwards, but Brown brings more to that line than that. He brings an infectious work ethic and we know he can score. So in that sense, you should gain offense. I feel somewhat bad for Marner here, but he has to learn. Some of it has been bad luck, or not his fault. Last night for example, Bozak and JVR had several grade A chances and did not convert. The good from that line was way more offensive zone time than thus far, due to Browns unrelenting fore check.

What I saw in Marner early was that he looked slow. Which should be the direct opposite, as he put on 10 lbs of mostly leg muscle in the off season. I think that his age is playing another role here. His confidence is at an all time low. Part of that is his doing, part is his line mates were not converting. So what happens, he cheats. By that I mean he was leaving the defensive zone early. Staying on a bit too long. Trying too hard to make the perfect play, instead of using his elite hockey sense.

Further I do not think we see him on the 4th line much longer. He is to valuable to be there. I understand Mike has said "even scoring throughout," well we have 17 different players on the board right now, so that is not a problem. The thing is Babcock will not show his complete hand to the media, or even to the players. He is a coaching genius. This move was the correct one. Reward the work of a player, showing that you work, you move up. Sadly Marner is the causualty, age, and him being a minus 7 contributing factors here. But does he stay down much longer, I think there is no chance that happens. He is simply too much of our offense. The other good part of this is Babcock ingeniously puts Marner on the PP still, so he gets ice time, and confidence. That last PP against Detroit he controlled the play heavily, while we did not score, part of that was Bozak and then JVR missing an open net (again). I think we see Mitch's next move either back with his mates or more likely, with Kadri. Want a guy to be better on defense, put him with a line that is known for it. In addition we have to get Marleau going here, and I think the issue on the line is Komarov. While he is good defensively he simply is not get the puck to Kadri or Marleau for any zone time. The only time that happens if Marleau wins the foot race or Kadri. Another good note Kadri looks real good. Who knew a coach could change a player so much. Just a small piece here, but Gardiner, jeeze. He looked so good the first couple games, and since NJ the puck is now a grenade on his stick. If he could ever get that confidence back the way Zaits is playing look out. On the positive, it is slowly seeming like Rielly may turn a corner here. Exciting times.

Doode one of us is in the wrong thread, but nice post.

 

[PromisedLand]

This is part of what some of us have been saying is the intangible of Hyman on the line. It is very difficult to take a night/shift off when a guy on the line never seems to. Your shift/night off stands out more. He keeps both them honest on effort and Nylander more so. Funny how many think that aspect doesn't actually help production when guys don't take nights off.

using the same analogy once could say that the laziness and lethargic effort of the bozak+jvr combo rubbed off on Marner (hope Brownie is too mentally strong for it to happen to him)


ALso;

Hyman 5 points in 7 games; LOVE IT!

(hyman missing the net on sweet dishes from Mattews and Nylander still pissess me off sometimes )

 

[RLF]

using the same analogy once could say that the laziness and lethargic effort of the bozak+jvr combo rubbed off on Marner (hope Brownie is too mentally strong for it to happen to him)


ALso;

Hyman 5 points in 7 games; LOVE IT!

(hyman missing the net on sweet dishes from Mattews and Nylander still pissess me off sometimes )

It may have with Marner. I always said I thought Bozak and JVR were harder workers until Kessel got here. Although in this case, Marner is just struggling I think.

 

[Walshy7]

using the same analogy once could say that the laziness and lethargic effort of the bozak+jvr combo rubbed off on Marner (hope Brownie is too mentally strong for it to happen to him)


ALso;

Hyman 5 points in 7 games; LOVE IT!

(hyman missing the net on sweet dishes from Mattews and Nylander still pissess me off sometimes )

me too, but its going to happen over his career if he sticks with Matthews. He just doesn't have the skill to cash in even 60% of the time if he did he would be a top 50 player in the league Hyman at 40points is what we likely hope for at best but with his other work it becomes a lot less of a problem, 28 points last year simply wasn't good enough but give him a pass in his rookie season. I think he gets 40 points this season 15 goals 25 assissts

 

[saltming]

me too, but its going to happen over his career if he sticks with Matthews. He just doesn't have the skill to cash in even 60% of the time if he did he would be a top 50 player in the league Hyman at 40points is what we likely hope for at best but with his other work it becomes a lot less of a problem, 28 points last year simply wasn't good enough but give him a pass in his rookie season. I think he gets 40 points this season 15 goals 25 assissts

If he cashed in on 60% of his chanced he would have a sh% of 60!!
Or am I off on that thought?