Pre-Game Talk: Leafs vs Ducks -

[francis246]

In this case, you do add by subtracting. You (hopefully) add more responsible players on the defensive side of the game while giving up a little potency on the PP. Ideally your GAA goes down, thus, no glaring need for those extra goals. Do you honestly believe the PP would suffer that much without JVR (Bozak is irrelevant, IMO)? I don’t think it would because this team has a ton of talent.

Besides, as evidenced vs the Sharks, what good are their skills on the PP if the team doesn’t have the puck and not getting the man advantage?

Let’s not forget JVR-Bozak-Kessel were one of the highest scoring lines in the league and great on the PP, yet the Leafs were horrible. I really think it’s time to move on from these 2 players. I appreciate what they have done for this team and would be cheering for them on another team but it just time to let go.

and yes I do think our PP will suffer big time without JVR. Hello he is our best PP forward. I'm not sure where you think you are just magically going to make 30 goals reappear. Like jesus christ, it's not a hard concept to understand. Goal scorers are goal scorers. defensive players are defensive players. Each type has their role on a team. A player who makes an effort on defense isn't always better than someone who actually produces for you. People overrate this defensive role so much. There are lot of quality NHL'ers even recent cup winners who are not the greatest defensively but give you all they can offensively. Cup winning teams know how to slot them appropriately not just get rid of talented scorers.

 

[francis246]

Yeah, literally.

How come he didn’t prevent Borgman (I think) from getting smoked literally RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM and then subsequently prevent Gardiner from literally getting STEAMROLLED later in the game (even after he literally had words with the LA player, literally).

Explain that to me, literally.

He is clueless in his own zone and it was actually his fault that the puck stayed in before Moore took that penalty yesterday, literally. Don’t worry, the ice he was cleaning with his stick in the slot (while his dman was left wide open for days) was very shiny. Literally.

moore was taking that penalty regardless of whether the puck was out or in. He went straight for Meier

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Yeah, literally.

How come he didn’t prevent Borgman (I think) from getting smoked literally RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM and then subsequently prevent Gardiner from literally getting STEAMROLLED later in the game (even after he literally had words with the LA player, literally).

Explain that to me, literally.

He is clueless in his own zone and it was actually his fault that the puck stayed in before Moore took that penalty yesterday, literally. Don’t worry, the ice he was cleaning with his stick in the slot (while his dman was left wide open for days) was very shiny. Literally.

Responding to people with the decorum and maturity of a 10 year old is unbecoming, to say the least. The fact that your name and avatar are one of the worst, most useless memes of our time might even be worse. He's been solid on the forecheck, Marner's best game of the season was opposite Martin, he's played physically.... his role is to play a heavy game, play hard on the forecheck, and drop the gloves the odd time. Pretty sure he's done that...

Can he improve his defense? Sure. There are about 2 guys on the 23 that are playing solid defense. Martin is far from the biggest issue on this team.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

and yes I do think our PP will suffer big time without JVR. Hello he is our best PP forward. I'm not sure where you think you are just magically going to make 30 goals reappear. Like jesus christ, it's not a hard concept to understand. Goal scorers are goal scorers. defensive players are defensive players. Each type has their role on a team. A player who makes an effort on defense isn't always better than someone who actually produces for you. People overrate this defensive role so much. There are lot of quality NHL'ers even recent cup winners who are not the greatest defensively but give you all they can offensively. Cup winning teams know how to slot them appropriately not just get rid of talented scorers.

No bother, this childish clown is the smartest guy in the thread. Let him draw on the wall with his crayons.

 

[The Examiner]

So we should blame one line for our team not doing well? Let me ask you this, if we ended up being lets say 9-2 right now but Bozak line is still producing and still has a lot to improve defensively, would anyone give a rats ass? Ofc not. Naturally when we start losing we want to blame specific players. It's not just the Bozak line. It's the team as a whole, they have not been good outside of Matthews and Nylander.

Seriously. What are you even on about? The team is NOT 9-2 and JVR and Bozak are part of that problem. If they were 9-2, of course we wouldn’t be complaining as much. Unfortunately, I deal with reality not fantasy. The reality is that JVR and Bozak are making the same mistakes they’ve been making for YEARS. This is the one constant in the equation so of course people are going to be upset and it really is time to move on. They are not going to change. It’s been the same discussion about these 2, every year. Enough is enough.

Also, I disagree with your last statement. Kadri has been great and Marleau has been fine. The Bozak line has been terrible and so has the 4th line but that’s because Matt Martin is useless and Moore has not been good. I feel bad for Connor Brown. Hyman has been good as well, for what he is. The defense needs work too and Andy needs to be more consistent. There are plenty of issues with this team and JVR/Bozak are tight up there, IMO.

So, you see, I’m not JUST blaming them but they are the same problem they’ve always been and they are not going to change.

 

[francis246]

Seriously. What are you even on about? The team is NOT 9-2 and JVR and Bozak are part of that problem. If they were 9-2, of course we wouldn’t be complaining as much. Unfortunately, I deal with reality not fantasy. The reality is that JVR and Bozak are making the same mistakes they’ve been making for YEARS. This is the one constant in the equation so of course people are going to be upset and it really is time to move on. They are not going to change. It’s been the same discussion about these 2, every year. Enough is enough.

Also, I disagree with your last statement. Kadri has been great and Marleau has been fine. The Bozak line has been terrible and so has the 4th line but that’s because Matt Martin is useless and Moore has not been good. I feel bad for Connor Brown. Hyman has been good as well, for what he is. The defense needs work too and Andy needs to be more consistent. There are plenty of issues with this team and JVR/Bozak are tight up there, IMO.

So, you see, I’m not JUST blaming them but they are the same problem they’ve always been and they are not going to change.

The Kadri line and The PK were the goals against last night. The point of the matter is that Bozak line is not to blame solely on the teams lack of success. And tbh they aren't the same problem. The biggest issue is we haven't had a #1 defenseman or a legit #1 defenseman in about 10 fcking years.

Bozak line is a minuscule problem on this team if you really ask me. There are more pressing issues contributing to the lack of success in the last couple games (can't believe losing a few games is causing this frantic really)

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Stop listening to Leaf Lunch because they are pretty clueless too. He doesn't keep the flies off as we witnessed vs LA when Borgman (I think) got rocked, right in front of him. Yeah, he stepped in and the LA player wasn't even worried, as evidence later when Gardiner got steamrolled. He does nothing and nobody is scared.

I loved the 80s and 90s with all the fighting and big hits (honestly prefer that type of hockey) but that is not the direction the game is going in. Martin is a relic and guys like Miller and Dreger (where you got the flies line from) are quickly becoming relics too.

If the Leafs want a big, tough guy, he better have skill. They'll be quickly left behind and Matthews and company will go to waste.

Martin does nothing.

Ohh..Nothing to do with leafs lunch here, I believe he still has a role in today's game. Period.

Imagine the game against the Canucks last year if we didn't have him in the lineup?

And, not sure if you watch the leafs..but there are times where guys like Marner are in position to get steamrolled, yet they dont because Matt Martin is on the bench, and the opposing players know they would need to answer to him.

This being said, I miss the days from the lockout season with Orr and McLaren on the 4th line and Fraser on D.

 

[Nithoniniel]

his role is to play a heavy game, play hard on the forecheck, and drop the gloves the odd time. Pretty sure he's done that...

The problem as I see it is that you can sure make a case that Martin performs that role well, but is a role that limited something we really need? Right now he's not adding anything else. It's the hits, and the occasional fight.

I've rooted for Martin, used to defend the signing around here, so I'd like to see him succeed. I don't really think you can say that he has though.

And, not sure if you watch the leafs..but there are times where guys like Marner are in position to get steamrolled, yet they dont because Matt Martin is on the bench, and the opposing players know they would need to answer to him.

How on earth do you reach that conclusion? Do you see the players charge Marner, then let up and look over at Martin on the bench? I'm just asking because you write as if it's something that you can visually see during the games.

Teams with a Martin gets cheapshots and injuries just as much as teams without a Martin. The hypothetical you speak of has no tangible support whatsoever.

 

[The Examiner]

Responding to people with the decorum and maturity of a 10 year old is unbecoming, to say the least. The fact that your name and avatar are one of the worst, most useless memes of our time might even be worse. He's been solid on the forecheck, Marner's best game of the season was opposite Martin, he's played physically.... his role is to play a heavy game, play hard on the forecheck, and drop the gloves the odd time. Pretty sure he's done that...

Can he improve his defense? Sure. There are about 2 guys on the 23 that are playing solid defense. Martin is far from the biggest issue on this team.

Thanks, dad. The user name is not a meme, it’s character. Literally. Worry about what you’re doing not what I’m doing. Literally. Also learn to use the word literally. Using it does not make you smart, it makes you sound like a fool.

Martin is useless. There is no need for him. Just because he has one good game, does not change that. No he has not literally done his job because how can he forecheck when he is stuck in his own zone all game? He’s terrible and there are other players that are way more skilled than him that can play a heavy game. There is no need for him.

How many fights has he even gotten into? Nobody is scared of him and he did not prevent his teammates from getting smoked.

So, the team has players that can play a “heavy” game but actually have skill. Martin doesn’t prevent his team mates from getting rocked. Nobody is scared of him. Tell me again, what is his use in the modern NHL?

I also never said he is the biggest problem on this team but it’s a good start. Having Leivo sit for him is absolutley pathetic.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

The problem as I see it is that you can sure make a case that Martin performs that role well, but is a role that limited something we really need? Right now he's not adding anything else. It's the hits, and the occasional fight.

I've rooted for Martin, used to defend the signing around here, so I'd like to see him succeed. I don't really think you can say that he has though.

Again..... Is he doing what the coach has asked him to do? I believe he has. It's that simple. Our coach has given him specific orders, amd he carries them out. It's his role, and it's all that's asked of him. Outside of that, it's a matter of opinion if someone values that.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Thanks, dad. The user name is not a meme, it’s character. Literally. Worry about what you’re doing not what I’m doing. Literally. Also learn to use the word literally. Using it does not make you smart, it makes you sound like a fool.

Martin is useless. There is no need for him. Just because he has one good game, does not change that. No he has not literally done his job because how can he forecheck when he is stuck in his own zone all game? He’s terrible and there are other players that are way more skilled than him that can play a heavy game. There is no need for him.

How many fights has he even gotten into? Nobody is scared of him and he did not prevent his teammates from getting smoked.

So, the team has players that can play a “heavy” game but actually have skill. Martin doesn’t prevent his team mates from getting rocked. Nobody is scared of him. Tell me again, what is his use in the modern NHL?

I also never said he is the biggest problem on this team but it’s a good start. Having Leivo sit for him is absolutley pathetic.

From Miriam Webster:

b —used to emphasize the truth and accuracy of a statement or description.

I mean, rule #1 of the internet is in play here. Way to attempt to make yourself sound cool by having a go at spelling or grammar

Your opinion (however ridiculous it may or may not be) doesn't necessarily make up the entirety of truth. You may want to go back to school on that.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Again..... Is he doing what the coach has asked him to do? I believe he has. It's that simple. Our coach has given him specific orders, amd he carries them out. It's his role, and it's all that's asked of him. Outside of that, it's a matter of opinion if someone values that.

Sure, but I don't think anyone is actually blaming Martin though?

Either way, I don't think a role is ever that limited. It's still part of his job description to play defensive hockey, to help us transition, and to try to score when we have the puck in the offensive zone. And his flaws in these areas are also part of his job performance.

 

[The Examiner]

Ohh..Nothing to do with leafs lunch here, I believe he still has a role in today's game. Period.

Imagine the game against the Canucks last year if we didn't have him in the lineup?

And, not sure if you watch the leafs..but there are times where guys like Marner are in position to get steamrolled, yet they dont because Matt Martin is on the bench, and the opposing players know they would need to answer to him.

This being said, I miss the days from the lockout season with Orr and McLaren on the 4th line and Fraser on D.

It funny because they said the exact same thing, “keep the flies off”, on Leaf Lunch today.

You don’t know that players aren’t taking runs at Marner because of Martin on the bench. You just want to believe that. It didn’t stop LA from steam rolling Borgman and Gardiner so I don’t know what you are on about on that one.

In regards to the Vancouver game, they would have been fine. It’s a different league now and that stuff isn’t tolerated anymore.

I too miss the days when you needed a Martin type of player but, unfortunately, the game has evolved. Martin is not needed anymore.

 

[The Examiner]

From Miriam Webster:

b —used to emphasize the truth and accuracy of a statement or description.

I mean, rule #1 of the internet is in play here. Way to attempt to make yourself sound cool by having a go at spelling or grammar

Except you didn’t use it for it’s indended purpose. You used it to make it SEEM like your statement was truth, when it wasn’t. It’s my issue because it’s an over-used word that doesn’t need to be used most of the time. You knew you didn’t have a leg to stand on so inserted the word to make it seem like truth. You can’t fool me sonny. This is also evidenced by the fact that you didn’t even respond to my points about Martin.

What kind of tool brings up “rules of the internet”. I bet you have a beard.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Komarov should be flipped with Marner. But hey, at least Bozak is demoted and Polak is out. Enough of Polak already, he's a damn tire fire.

Agreed.

I think getting Marner away from Bozak and Komarov the hell off of a scoring line would be the most ideal setup. Komarov has done f*** all this season and it's getting a bit tiring of hearing about his defensive "value" to the Kadri line.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Except you didn’t use it for it’s indended purpose. You used it to make it SEEM like your statement was truth, when it wasn’t. It’s my issue because it’s an over-used word that doesn’t need to be used most of the time. You knew you didn’t have a leg to stand on so inserted the word to make it seem like truth. You can’t fool me sonny. This is also evidenced by the fact that you didn’t even respond to my points about Martin.

What kind of tool brings up “rules of the internet”. I bet you have a beard.

You see, that statement (my opinion) is no less the truth to me than your opinion is the truth to you. So uhhh, not sure where you're going there....

And what does facial hair have to do with anything? Are you 12? When you start with insults at an elementary level, you've truly lost. Thanks for coming out.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

Again..... Is he doing what the coach has asked him to do? I believe he has. It's that simple. Our coach has given him specific orders, amd he carries them out. It's his role, and it's all that's asked of him. Outside of that, it's a matter of opinion if someone values that.

What is his role vs. teams that do not employ an enforcer like San Jose? Get hemmed in his own zone for the whole night?

There is no need to dress him for every game. Against Carlyle and his goons? Sure, unleash Martin. Against a team that can roll 4 lines with speed and some talent (San Jose, Carolina, Minnesota, etc.)? He will get exposed.

 

[Duke16]

Hoping Bozie stays in Anaheim

 

[ErnieLeafs]

What is his role vs. teams that do not employ an enforcer like San Jose? Get hemmed in his own zone for the whole night?

There is no need to dress him for every game. Against Carlyle and his goons? Sure, unleash Martin. Against a team that can roll 4 lines with speed and some talent (San Jose, Carolina, Minnesota, etc.)? He will get exposed.

I don't necessarily disagree. At all. My whole point was that he's far from useless, far from the problem with this team, and on most nights, has done his job as he's been asked to do.

 

[Jozay]

Again..... Is he doing what the coach has asked him to do? I believe he has. It's that simple. Our coach has given him specific orders, amd he carries them out. It's his role, and it's all that's asked of him. Outside of that, it's a matter of opinion if someone values that.

Sure, Martin plays his role. That isnt the problem (to me, at least). The problem is that everyone knows his role in the NHL is no longer necessary except Babcock.

Look at the Flyer game. Leo lays a dirty hit on Ghost and guess what? Nothing happens. Nothing happened right after the hit and nothing happened during the game. They didnt target any of our players, they didnt even target Leo.

I just see no reason why Martin is playing over a guy like Leivo or Kapanen. In 2017, you ice the best lineup you possibly can. Babcock isnt doing that, and thats a problem.

 

[The Examiner]

You see, that statement (my opinion) is no less the truth to me than your opinion is the truth to you. So uhhh, not sure where you're going there....

And what does facial hair have to do with anything? Are you 12? When you start with insults at an elementary level, you've truly lost. Thanks for coming out.

It was YOU started the insults by mentioning my user name when it had nothing to do with the discussion. I never said there was anything wrong with having a beard, just that I bet you had one. For somebody who likes to act like some big grown up, you really come off as a sensitive child. You can dish it out but you sure can’t take it. For further reference, since you don’t seem very self aware, attack the post, not the poster. I accept your apology.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

It funny because they said the exact same thing, “keep the flies off”, on Leaf Lunch today.

You don’t know that players aren’t taking runs at Marner because of Martin on the bench. You just want to believe that. It didn’t stop LA from steam rolling Borgman and Gardiner so I don’t know what you are on about on that one.

In regards to the Vancouver game, they would have been fine. It’s a different league now and that stuff isn’t tolerated anymore.

I too miss the days when you needed a Martin type of player but, unfortunately, the game has evolved. Martin is not needed anymore.

if you ever watch the pre-game interviews of the Leafs opponents they all say "we are terrified to dress tonight to go up against Matt Martin. No chance we'd ever hit a player on his team while he's around" or things to that effect. Those proud athletes turn to mush at the mere thought of crossing him

 

[MJ65]

The hockey has changed so much during last few years, now it's all about skating, speed and skills. I think those days are long gone where teams used to depend on toughness, muscle and bangers. I really no issues with Martin and I think he is pretty useful in 4th role but then you have so many prospects with better tools, with better skating abilities and speed. If any thing Martin is only better in terms of toughness, otherwise the prospects we have are way better and with better tools in all other areas. If there is any usefulness to have Martin in our lineup then I haven't seen that in this season

 

[Suntouchable13]

It funny because they said the exact same thing, “keep the flies off”, on Leaf Lunch today.

You don’t know that players aren’t taking runs at Marner because of Martin on the bench. You just want to believe that. It didn’t stop LA from steam rolling Borgman and Gardiner so I don’t know what you are on about on that one.

In regards to the Vancouver game, they would have been fine. It’s a different league now and that stuff isn’t tolerated anymore.

I too miss the days when you needed a Martin type of player but, unfortunately, the game has evolved. Martin is not needed anymore.

I agree with most of you have been saying in this thread. Having said that, so much of the game is psychological. If believing that Martin has their backs helps them to play with more confidence or what have you then I accept it.

 

[MJ65]

Eric Stephens ✔@icemancometh
Ryan Getzlaf (face) has been put on injured reserve. Won't play this week naturally, Re-evaluated on Monday. Struck by puck on Sunday.
2:14 PM - Oct 31, 2017

I think that's huge break for the Leafs, in addition to that the Ducks are also going to be without Eaves and Fowler and both Bieska and Vatanen are doubtful for tomorrow's game. Leafs should take advantage of this depleted roste