Proposal: Leafs Trades to Fix Defensive Woes

[GodEmperor]

The overrating of Weber is pretty funny.

His value on the Habs is negative, they have ZERO percent chance of winning the cup within the next 3 years and what is Weber at that point? A 2-3D? Ok, but are the Habs for sure contenders or can they sputter like Florida, Phoenix, Calgary and Buffalo have showed us in rebuilds getting derailed recently? The Habs currently have no serious game changing prospects and depending on where they land in the draft, their prospect(s) could still be 1-2 years away from making their DEBUT, never mind impacting the game.

I made two offers a while back and Habs fans that responded hated them:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/weber-to-toronto.2431045/

Basically, I would let Weber rot. If they want to continue being mediocre by keeping good supporting players on their team who give them a boost, but in no way make them contenders, they can feel free. If I was in their spot, I would take what we could get and just move on. The Leafs didn't make out like bandits for Kessel and Phaneuf, but they are in a MUCH better spot dropping both of them for peanuts and just moving on.

 

[sansabri]

Aho has 114 points in 160 games. After this upcoming season, he is likely going to get a Pastrnak + contract. He plays Left Wing

Kadri has 116 points in 162 games. After this upcoming season, he has four years on a sweetheart deal. He plays Center, where the team is incredibly weak (Staal and Rask)

Kadri is also an all-purpose player who can kill penalties and is great defensively

Not going to sit here and say the Leafs don't add to my original proposal, I think I had more in it originally and just shortsightedly removed something, but they definitely aren't as far apart as you are suggesting.

I am a Habs fan, for what its worth, so I have no skin in the game either way.

Aho is a franchise player. Dunno why you'd compare him to a veteran like Kadri.

 

[Mackiaveli]

Are you going to ignore that towards the end of the season Aho was used as a center and didn’t look out of place at all?

5'11, 172 pound kid with a 45% FO% is definitely out of place... Very far so. He had comparable FO% to Jonathan Drouin, who is so far from being a C it's ridiculous.

Aho can play C if needed, and is a good cycle into the draw when your C gets booted, but he is not a 1C or 2C, he is an elite young winger in the making.

 

[ole ole]

The overrating of Weber is pretty funny.

His value on the Habs is negative, they have ZERO percent chance of winning the cup within the next 3 years and what is Weber at that point? A 2-3D? Ok, but are the Habs for sure contenders or can they sputter like Florida, Phoenix, Calgary and Buffalo have showed us in rebuilds getting derailed recently? The Habs currently have no serious game changing prospects and depending on where they land in the draft, their prospect(s) could still be 1-2 years away from making their DEBUT, never mind impacting the game.

I made two offers a while back and Habs fans that responded hated them:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/weber-to-toronto.2431045/

Basically, I would let Weber rot. If they want to continue being mediocre by keeping good supporting players on their team who give them a boost, but in no way make them contenders, they can feel free. If I was in their spot, I would take what we could get and just move on. The Leafs didn't make out like bandits for Kessel and Phaneuf, but they are in a MUCH better spot dropping both of them for peanuts and just moving on.

And your 2 offer were terrible for the Habs. The Leafs will not be getting Weber for peanuts.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Seems like a lot folks don't realize it cap league. I see "Montreal saves cap", which mean another team has it. Lots of bad moves. Is it just me,,,,95% of Weber trades are to the Leaf. Wonder why? Is there no value of Weber going to any of the other 29 teams in the NHL?
If Weber is valuable maybe Montreal should just keep him after all, with that he will be around for the Habs rebuild, their playoff run and another rebuild.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

5'11, 172 pound kid with a 45% FO% is definitely out of place... Very far so. He had comparable FO% to Jonathan Drouin, who is so far from being a C it's ridiculous.

Aho can play C if needed, and is a good cycle into the draw when your C gets booted, but he is not a 1C or 2C, he is an elite young winger in the making.

Connor McDavid won 41.4% of his faceoffs this season.

 

[IceBoxHockey]

5'11, 172 pound kid with a 45% FO% is definitely out of place... Very far so. He had comparable FO% to Jonathan Drouin, who is so far from being a C it's ridiculous.

Aho can play C if needed, and is a good cycle into the draw when your C gets booted, but he is not a 1C or 2C, he is an elite young winger in the making.

Really, FO%?

Malkin is at 43%, Mack 41%, McDavid 41%..etc., are these guys not 1 C then?

 

[Magic Man]

Not sure if stupid or trolling.

The problem isn't what is ON the team, it is what is NOT on the team that is causing them to get sandbagged two years in a row.

Your defense BLOWS. If the Leafs don't add at least one solid D-Man this off-season, they are doomed to repeat a first round exit in 2019.



Not quite. De Haan plays the left side, where you are already looking pretty nice --- Tanev is a RD, where your team has Hainsey playing on the first pair. I guess that answers my previous question.

Pittsburgh has won 2 cups on the back of their offense, their defense is a hilarious assortment of no names. Hainsey led their team in ice time last postseason. The Leafs young stars are only going to become more potent and comfortable with experience. Add a Tavares and the Leafs can outscore their problems. The Leafs defence is better than theirs is already.

Sometimes being patient pays off. Is anyone watching the Winnipeg Jets right now. They were swept in their only playoff experience and didn't even make the playoffs last season. Let's try not to panic and blow up what they've spent the last few years building.

I couldn't give 2 shits what hand De Haan shoots. He's a direct comparable to Tanev. Like Hainsey played the right side and helped the Leafs to their highest point total in their history, De Haan can manage I'm sure. Like f*** I'm trading a blue chip prospect because Tanev shoots right instead of left.

 

[Mackiaveli]

they have ZERO percent chance of winning the cup within the next 3 years

Over 20m in cap space.

Disposable players/contracts: Alzner and Shaw (9m combined)

Habs stay 4th overall at the draft and draft Tkachuk (or better)

Habs throw 12m at Tavares for 7 years

Habs throw 12m at Carlson for 2 years (rumour has it he would take a short term high money deal)

Habs offer 5x5 to De Haan

Drouin/Tavares/Gallagher
Pacioretty/Galchenyuk/Tkachuk
Lehkonen/Danault/Scherbak
Deslauriers/Hudon/Byron

De Haan/Carlson
Mete/Weber
Reilly/Petry
Juulsen

Price

Yeah, that team would absolutely dump on this iteration of the Leafs. Do any of those players necessarily sign with Montreal? Of course not. Do the Habs trade Pacioretty, Weber, or the 4th overall pick? Maybe.

But to say the Habs have a ZERO percent chance of winning the cup within the next 3 years is single handedly the most stupid thing I have read on these boards in a LONG time. They have 20m in cap space, another close to 9m they can move with draft picks, one of the League's best goaltenders over the last 4 years, one of the League's best goal scorers over the last 4 years, a solid #1 defenseman --- give me a break.

The Habs currently have no serious game changing prospects

Correct, but neither do the Leafs. All of the Leafs top players are playing in the NHL now.

We still have Mete and Juulsen who are both looking like serious NHLers for years to come.
Scherbak and Lehkonen are going to be two of the League's best 3rd line goal scorers
Byron is goal per dollar the best contract in the League
Chucky and Drouin are still incredibly young and have shown flashes of brilliance

This team is far from needing to completely rebuild, for what it's worth.

To be frank, if the Leafs are too stubborn to fix their defensive woes, their only option is to pray Lilly turns into a #1 or Doughty falls into their lap. Otherwise, this team has doomed Matthews to be the next Mats Sundin.

 

[Underdogoil]

Leaf fans don't want to hear it but soft one dimensional 60 point wingers who dont show in playoffs are worth Eberle value. Half the teams in league would love to have Weber so stop trying to spin he's some kinda cap dump. 2nd trade the canes give up 2 defenseman and get a prospect to replace them? I remember when they didn't want to give up Nylander for Tanev, lol. No way Van even considers Nylander now.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

The overrating of Weber is pretty funny.



Basically, I would let Weber rot. If they want to continue being mediocre by keeping good supporting players on their team who give them a boost, but in no way make them contenders, they can feel free. If I was in their spot, I would take what we could get and just move on. The Leafs didn't make out like bandits for Kessel and Phaneuf, but they are in a MUCH better spot dropping both of them for peanuts and just moving on.

You're correct. Let's imagine the Canadiens just gave Weber away. Then they could spend 7.8m a year (hopefully wisely) on other players. Weber isn't worth a bunch of good futures to anyone.

 

[ole ole]

Seems like a lot folks don't realize it cap league. I see "Montreal saves cap", which mean another team has it. Lots of bad moves. Is it just me,,,,95% of Weber trades are to the Leaf. Wonder why? Is there no value of Weber going to any of the other 29 teams in the NHL?
If Weber is valuable maybe Montreal should just keep him after all, with that he will be around for the Habs rebuild, their playoff run and another rebuild.

Well if you read through this post all Habs that have replied want nothing to do with the proposal with the exception of one who made the Proposal. He doesn't speak for most of the Hab fans as you can tell by this thread.We are quite happy in keeping Weber.

 

[Hulkacaniac]

5'11, 172 pound kid with a 45% FO% is definitely out of place... Very far so. He had comparable FO% to Jonathan Drouin, who is so far from being a C it's ridiculous.

Aho can play C if needed, and is a good cycle into the draw when your C gets booted, but he is not a 1C or 2C, he is an elite young winger in the making.

What are you talking about? So I guess Derek Ryan is a great center because of his 56% FO. Try watching the player instead of pulling out random stats. Aho also played center at the WJC, definitely not out of place. He's smart enough he could play D and do well.

 

[Mackiaveli]

Connor McDavid won 41.4% of his faceoffs this season.

He also scored 208 points in his last 164 games. He can win 20% of his faceoffs for all I care, if you're putting up those numbers you can lose as many faceoffs as ya want.

Pittsburgh has won 2 cups on the back of their offense

Crosby and Malkin are better than Nylander, Marner and Matthews all put together.

They were swept last year in round 1 and they're destroying their opponent

Yeah, their entire team producing 20% more, the addition of Stastny as their 3rd line center, and Michael Hutchinson having a Vezina-level year DEFINITELY has NOTHING to do with that.

Oh yeah, and their special teams got better --- and their defense is solid top to bottom ... Not really the case for Toronto, unfortunately.

I couldn't give 2 ****s what hand De Haan shoots. He's a direct comparable to Tanev.

This is where you show you know nothing about hockey. Just because a player plays defense, doesn't mean he can naturally interchange what side of the ice he plays on. Being able to play both sides of the ice is a skill very few players have, even at the NHL level.

Just because Burns went from RW to RD means that any big bodied winger can do the same too, right?

Malkin is at 43%, Mack 41%, McDavid 41%.

These guys are also playing against the opponents top lines --- Aho would be playing against 2nd/3rd line centers. Not that is ultimately matters, but my point remains; Aho doesn't have the size to play C, just like Drouin doesn't. He's a talented winger, that's where he should stay.

 

[Mackiaveli]

So I guess Derek Ryan is a great center because of his 56% FO

Defensive zone faceoff when killing off a penalty
Final 3 minutes, up by one goal, defensive zone faceoff.
Faceoff at your blueline with 2m left up by a goal

Would you rather Aho or Ryan taking faceoffs?

Ryan? Yeah, I thought so.

Derek Ryan is a great defensive bottom 6C. T.Mitchell was wanted by the Kings because he could play 4th line minutes well and played a defensive game. He also had one of the League's highest FO% --- so to sit here and act like FO% means nothing is equally as stupid as to suggest it's everything

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Derek Ryan is a “great defensive bottom 6C”?

Watch a Carolina game sometime dude.

 

[NextYear67]

Leaf fans don't want to hear it but soft one dimensional 60 point wingers who dont show in playoffs are worth Eberle value. Half the teams in league would love to have Weber so stop trying to spin he's some kinda cap dump. 2nd trade the canes give up 2 defenseman and get a prospect to replace them? I remember when they didn't want to give up Nylander for Tanev, lol. No way Van even considers Nylander now.

This is all kinds of wrong. Tanev was garbage this year, he'd be worth Connor Brown... maybe

 

[vorbis]

Defensive zone faceoff when killing off a penalty
Final 3 minutes, up by one goal, defensive zone faceoff.
Faceoff at your blueline with 2m left up by a goal

Would you rather Aho or Ryan taking faceoffs?

Ryan? Yeah, I thought so.

Derek Ryan is a great defensive bottom 6C. T.Mitchell was wanted by the Kings because he could play 4th line minutes well and played a defensive game. He also had one of the League's highest FO% --- so to sit here and act like FO% means nothing is equally as stupid as to suggest it's everything

this is really not going well for you and you should wave the white flag. laughably "scanning the back of a baseball card" type takes related to Carolina players that show you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Derek Ryan is a great defensive bottom 6C.

 

[WTFMAN99]

This is so bad.

 

[Hulkacaniac]

Defensive zone faceoff when killing off a penalty
Final 3 minutes, up by one goal, defensive zone faceoff.
Faceoff at your blueline with 2m left up by a goal

Would you rather Aho or Ryan taking faceoffs?

Ryan? Yeah, I thought so.

Derek Ryan is a great defensive bottom 6C. T.Mitchell was wanted by the Kings because he could play 4th line minutes well and played a defensive game. He also had one of the League's highest FO% --- so to sit here and act like FO% means nothing is equally as stupid as to suggest it's everything

I never said faceoff ability meant nothing. I only pointed out how ridiculous it is to discount someone's ability to play center based on their FO% and size, which is the only evidence you used to show Aho can't play center. Since you said Derek Ryan is a good center and Ryan and Aho are the same size, clearly Aho's size is not an issue. Then since FO% is everything that's left, without any other evidence, by your own reasoning it is stupid to suggest Aho can't be a center.

 

[Magic Man]

Leaf fans don't want to hear it but soft one dimensional 60 point wingers who dont show in playoffs are worth Eberle value. Half the teams in league would love to have Weber so stop trying to spin he's some kinda cap dump. 2nd trade the canes give up 2 defenseman and get a prospect to replace them? I remember when they didn't want to give up Nylander for Tanev, lol. No way Van even considers Nylander now.

Then Vancouver is Pejorative Slured. Not too crazy of a claim, Dim Jim is leading the ship there.

Any gnarly 3C's out there that the Leafs can ship off the one dimensional playoff chocker for out there? Were pretty desperate here, maybe someone above 50% on faceoffs?

 

[GodEmperor]

And your 2 offer were terrible for the Habs. The Leafs will not be getting Weber for peanuts.

Funny thing is I made a Weber value thread and nobody offered anything more, I wonder why? Almost like declining defenseman on big contracts are not worth major future mortgages, if only Bergevin got the memo.

Over 20m in cap space.

Disposable players/contracts: Alzner and Shaw (9m combined)

Habs stay 4th overall at the draft and draft Tkachuk (or better)

Habs throw 12m at Tavares for 7 years

Habs throw 12m at Carlson for 2 years (rumour has it he would take a short term high money deal)

Habs offer 5x5 to De Haan

Drouin/Tavares/Gallagher
Pacioretty/Galchenyuk/Tkachuk
Lehkonen/Danault/Scherbak
Deslauriers/Hudon/Byron

De Haan/Carlson
Mete/Weber
Reilly/Petry
Juulsen

Price

Yeah, that team would absolutely dump on this iteration of the Leafs. Do any of those players necessarily sign with Montreal? Of course not. Do the Habs trade Pacioretty, Weber, or the 4th overall pick? Maybe.

But to say the Habs have a ZERO percent chance of winning the cup within the next 3 years is single handedly the most stupid thing I have read on these boards in a LONG time. They have 20m in cap space, another close to 9m they can move with draft picks, one of the League's best goaltenders over the last 4 years, one of the League's best goal scorers over the last 4 years, a solid #1 defenseman --- give me a break.



.

I'm dying if you think Carlson AND Tavares are coming to Montreal.

Although I'm sure a lot of players want to play for the mastermind GM Bergevin, so I could be wrong.

 

[Magic Man]

Funny thing is I made a Weber value thread and nobody offered anything more, I wonder why? Almost like declining defenseman on big contracts are not worth major future mortgages, if only Bergevin got the memo.



I'm dying if you think Carlson AND Tavares are coming to Montreal.

Although I'm sure a lot of players want to play for the mastermind GM Bergevin, so I could be wrong.

Man, they have over 20M in cap space and easily disposable players in Alzner and Shaw. When they trade them with no cap coming back, that's almost 30M.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

LEAFS - COYOTES

Nick Hjalmarsson, Max Domi
For
Jake Gardiner, Connor Brown, Dymtro Tymashov/Jeremy Bracco, 2nd

LEAFS - CANUCKS

Chris Tanev
For
1st 2019, Josh Leivo, Calle Rosen

LEAFS - SABRES

Jake Gardiner, Small Add
For
Ryan O’Rielly

DOMI - MATTHEWS - KAPANEN
MARLEAU - O’RIELLY - MARNER
HYMAN - - KADRI - - NYLANDER
JOHNSSON - GOAT - GRUNDSTROM

RIELLY - TANEV
HJALMARSSON - ZAITSEV
DERMOTT - HAINSEY