Proposal: Leafs Trades to Fix Defensive Woes

[firstemperor]

We're not trading a 21 year old Nylander for a 32 year old Weber with his contract. Not only is the window not fully open today, or tomorrow, but the value is poor. Your basically trading for a ~5 year window of Weber into his mid-late 30's, and not at a discount in terms of his cap hit by any means. How does that remotely make sense for the Leafs.

Rangers can maybe get a little more for Zucc, optimistically, and he's a bad fit here for the Leafs. Not a trade that works for either team.

Canes deal isn't realistic for either team but much better for the Leafs. Easy yes for us.

Would keep Zaitsev for that package.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

I think that statement is almost as ignorant as...

Not as ignorant as this:

Habs definitely want to rid themselves of the Weber contract sooner rather than later.

 

[ole ole]

Not as ignorant as this:

Or not as ignorant as his proposal of
Nylander
for
Weber, Toronto's 2018 2nd, Montreal's 2019 2nd, Michael McCarron.
The guys seems to always make bad proposals for Hab players.

 

[Go Wings]

That Carolina deal is terrible for them(maybe take out Aho and you have fair deal)

Also how exactly does the Islanders pick get involved in the Detroit deal?

Do your research, Detroit already owns the Islanders 2nd round pick for 2019.

 

[IceBoxHockey]

Every proposal in the OP's post is terrible for every team not named the Leafs.

I don’t think the MON one is something they should do. The Rangers deal isn’t THAT bad for a rebuilding team.

Weber is not who they should target if they traded Nylander. I’d only trade Nylander if it was for a dman of similar age and potential. Weber doesn’t fit in with the cores age. Yes, that isn’t a good deal for Mon, but that doesn’t mean it makes sense for the Leafs. They should rather let Liljegren develop than trade Nylander for Weber.

 

[Mackiaveli]

every team but the Leafs says NO to all of these

I'm not even a Leafs fan...

Faulk is criminally overrated

Leafs may have to add another prospect or a top end pick, but the basis of Kadri + a 2nd for Aho and Liljegren for Pesce 1:1 is relatively even. Aho is a year away from being paid, whereas Kadri is signed for 4 more years to a sweetheart deal -- Carolina desperately needs C help, so it balances out. Pesce is solid but about to get paid a lot more. Lilly is cost controlled for another 3+ years. The Canes could also make a serious push for John Carlson this summer, which would instantly replace the loss of Faulk with an infinitely better player.

Detroit gets a solid young D-Man for a depth forward and a 2nd round pick

The Rangers get a 1st and a 2nd for a 1 year UFA rental.

Also how exactly does the Islanders pick get involved in the Detroit deal?

Islanders pick belongs to Detroit.

While the Leafs get eliminated in the first round of the playoffs for the next 10 years.

Fixed this for you.

Enough to know that both these players make zero sense in trade for Toronto

Toronto desperately needs a #1 defenseman, that is a right-handed shot, and stays at home. Really sounds like Weber doesn't fit the bill at all

 

[huntison]

Tanev for Liljegren

 

[boredmale]

Do your research, Detroit already owns the Islanders 2nd round pick for 2019.

I know Vegas has our second round pick but we never made any trades with Detroit in ages

 

[Drew311]

Seems realistic.

 

[Magic Man]

I'm not even a Leafs fan...

Faulk is criminally overrated

Leafs may have to add another prospect or a top end pick, but the basis of Kadri + a 2nd for Aho and Liljegren for Pesce 1:1 is relatively even. Aho is a year away from being paid, whereas Kadri is signed for 4 more years to a sweetheart deal -- Carolina desperately needs C help, so it balances out. Pesce is solid but about to get paid a lot more. Lilly is cost controlled for another 3+ years. The Canes could also make a serious push for John Carlson this summer, which would instantly replace the loss of Faulk with an infinitely better player.

Detroit gets a solid young D-Man for a depth forward and a 2nd round pick

The Rangers get a 1st and a 2nd for a 1 year UFA rental.



Islanders pick belongs to Detroit.




Fixed this for you.



Toronto desperately needs a #1 defenseman, that is a right-handed shot, and stays at home. Really sounds like Weber doesn't fit the bill at all

You're right man, all the Leafs young guns have peaked, they should blow it up and trade for all the senior citizens in the league.

 

[Big Ed]

I know Vegas has our second round pick but we never made any trades with Detroit in ages

They traded it to us for Tatar.

 

[IceBoxHockey]

I'm not even a Leafs fan...

Faulk is criminally overrated

Leafs may have to add another prospect or a top end pick, but the basis of Kadri + a 2nd for Aho and Liljegren for Pesce 1:1 is relatively even. Aho is a year away from being paid, whereas Kadri is signed for 4 more years to a sweetheart deal -- Carolina desperately needs C help, so it balances out. Pesce is solid but about to get paid a lot more. Lilly is cost controlled for another 3+ years. The Canes could also make a serious push for John Carlson this summer, which would instantly replace the loss of Faulk with an infinitely better player.

Detroit gets a solid young D-Man for a depth forward and a 2nd round pick

The Rangers get a 1st and a 2nd for a 1 year UFA rental.



Islanders pick belongs to Detroit.




Fixed this for you.



Toronto desperately needs a #1 defenseman, that is a right-handed shot, and stays at home. Really sounds like Weber doesn't fit the bill at all

So the Canes desperately need center help so they trade the one potentially high end C they have? Right...

Aho’s value is through the roof. Kadri is not the center piece you build a package around to acquire a talent like him.

 

[Magic Man]

Tanev for Liljegren

Or we could sign CDH for cap space and get the same result while keeping the blue chip prospect. Tough choice.

 

[boredmale]

They traded it to us for Tatar.

Got it thanks

 

[Cor]

This is f***ing disgusting for the Leafs

 

[TMLeafs18]

I'm not even a Leafs fan...

Faulk is criminally overrated

Leafs may have to add another prospect or a top end pick, but the basis of Kadri + a 2nd for Aho and Liljegren for Pesce 1:1 is relatively even. Aho is a year away from being paid, whereas Kadri is signed for 4 more years to a sweetheart deal -- Carolina desperately needs C help, so it balances out. Pesce is solid but about to get paid a lot more. Lilly is cost controlled for another 3+ years. The Canes could also make a serious push for John Carlson this summer, which would instantly replace the loss of Faulk with an infinitely better player.

Detroit gets a solid young D-Man for a depth forward and a 2nd round pick

The Rangers get a 1st and a 2nd for a 1 year UFA rental.



Islanders pick belongs to Detroit.




Fixed this for you.



Toronto desperately needs a #1 defenseman, that is a right-handed shot, and stays at home. Really sounds like Weber doesn't fit the bill at all

They may need a top pairing d but the NHL is built around a salary cap that a player Weber’s age and contract doesn’t work with our future plans. There is a reason why everyone wants to try and dump him his contract is terrible moving forward. Thank god the leafs don’t have short sighted gms anymore

 

[Mackiaveli]

Not as ignorant as this:

As an admittedly huge fan of Weber (though I wish we never traded for him) lets look at the facts, shall we?

Cons:
Weber is 33 this season.
Weber is coming off of a 26 game season, and a surgery.
Weber is signed for the next 6 seasons after this one.

Pros:
Weber is absolutely a 1D
Weber absolutely is our best defenseman
Weber absolutely will continue to be elite for at least another 3-4 years
Weber could very likely end up like Chara, and contribute at a top 4 pace for the rest of his career.

Realistic problems for either side:
We trade him, and he becomes Chara 2.0, we just lost a RD for the next half-decade.
We trade him, and he falls off after two or three seasons, we just nabbed a top 6 winger for the next decade for two years of Weber and 4 years of wasted cap.
We don't trade him now, and he falls off in two or three seasons, we are stuck with a degrading defenseman, or we trade him for three quarters instead of a dollar.

They should rather let Liljegren develop than trade Nylander for Weber.

Lilly hasn't played a single game in the NHL, and there is no evidence to suggest he will be a Top 4 defenseman within the next two seasons, which is the window that Toronto should chase as much as they can with ELCs. Lilly could (though I doubt it) end up being Zaitsev 2.0 and not really turn out in the NHL as expected. That would leave Toronto with a lot of wasted time, and a terrible right side --- they need to address it as soon as they can if they want to make it past the first round, and unfortunately a #1 defenseman, regardless of age, doesn't move very often. Weber is one of the few possible players the Leafs could realistically target.

The guys seems to always make bad proposals for Hab players.

The Habs free up a ton of cap space and add to a position of relative weakness.

They can offer Carlson 7m to fill Weber's void, and still come away with close to the same cap-hit while Nylander is on ELC.

Draft a winger (Tkachuk, Zadina or Svechnikov) to play 3RW, and move Shaw/Patches

Chucky, Drouin, Lehkonen on the left, Nylander, Gallagher, Draft Pick on the right --- the Habs wing depth becomes absolutely f***ing ridiculous.

Get lucky and snag a 2C + LD in a trade for Patches + our 2019 1st, and sign Tavares and that team becomes a cup contender overnight.

Don't kid yourself, Weber is great, but freeing up that cap gives the Habs an abundance of options with the caliber of players hitting the market in the next 400 days.

 

[Mackiaveli]

one potentially high end C they have?

Erm, what? Aho is a winger, Pesce and Faulk are D-Men... lol

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

id rather keep Weber as a habs fan

When dumby Bergevin will be fired early next season and we will rebuild , id rather have those picks + a Veteran def in the back.

Weber is really good , first season of injury for him. people thinking about his contract is god awful and makes Weber worth nothing are clueless hockey people.

 

[sansabri]

The Canes one might just be the worst. That package alone doesn't get you Aho.

Also, no Weber for soft wingers.

 

[Mackiaveli]

You're right man, all the Leafs young guns have peaked, they should blow it up and trade for all the senior citizens in the league.

The problem isn't what is ON the team, it is what is NOT on the team that is causing them to get sandbagged two years in a row.

Your defense BLOWS. If the Leafs don't add at least one solid D-Man this off-season, they are doomed to repeat a first round exit in 2019.

sign CDH for cap space and get the same result

Not quite. De Haan plays the left side, where you are already looking pretty nice --- Tanev is a RD, where your team has Hainsey playing on the first pair. I guess that answers my previous question.

 

[IceBoxHockey]

Erm, what? Aho is a winger, Pesce and Faulk are D-Men... lol

Are you going to ignore that towards the end of the season Aho was used as a center and didn’t look out of place at all?

 

[Go Wings]

I know Vegas has our second round pick but we never made any trades with Detroit in ages

Detroit traded Tatar to Vegas and as part of that deal we received the Islanders 2nd rounder.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

The silliness has gone on for a while (and may never end). EVERY RHD in the league seems to be SO necessary for the Leafs to obtain at any price. No the Leafs do desperately need a # 1 Dman. That implies the Leafs will get one any price and there is no reason to think that that one guy is going to the team any more successful. Better Dmen would be nice, but isn't that true for virtually every team in the league? No team can really trade their up for better players...because it causes holes in another area or causes holes now and in the future.

Mackiavelli: So many of the Weber trades on this site are absolutely ridiculous for the Leafs. It usually no or little money being sent to Montreal and Toronto has to give up three young inexpensive assets. The Leafs might as well overpay for a UFA (not necessarily a Dmen) and keep their assets. The only trade then makes cap sense is if Zaitsev goes to Montreal and maybe the playing value difference isn't worth it Montreal
Same with the Tanev for Liljegren suggestion. By the time the Leafs in possible serious contention, Tanev will be a UFA and Liljegren will be starting his NHL career.

 

[Mackiaveli]

That package alone doesn't get you Aho.

Aho has 114 points in 160 games. After this upcoming season, he is likely going to get a Pastrnak + contract. He plays Left Wing

Kadri has 116 points in 162 games. After this upcoming season, he has four years on a sweetheart deal. He plays Center, where the team is incredibly weak (Staal and Rask)

Kadri is also an all-purpose player who can kill penalties and is great defensively

Not going to sit here and say the Leafs don't add to my original proposal, I think I had more in it originally and just shortsightedly removed something, but they definitely aren't as far apart as you are suggesting.

I am a Habs fan, for what its worth, so I have no skin in the game either way.