TSN: Leafs in on Vatanen

[KaseMeOutside]

If Vatanen was so good defensively at 5v5, PP and PK, he wouldn't be the one Anaheim was looking to move - they'd move Manson or Fowler instead.


http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...=500&teamid=0&type=shots&sort=A60&sortdir=ASC
Shattenkirk is literally a top 10 guy in supressing shots, or top 20 relative to team. I'm very happy to put him out late in the game.

But the point was - there are many options out there, and in my opinion, Vatanen falls into the 'get only if cheap'

Vatanen is available because they can plug Montour into his role.

 

[Jeypic]

All those second tier defenseman in this year's draft are dicey
I'd draft a forward before if go near Foote Hague or Brannstrom

There's a reason teams want Vatanen
He's a quality PK/PP guy who can eat big minutes against good competition
He won't score a ton but he's going to be able to take a ton of pressure off the guys like Rielly and Zaitsev while forcing Carrick to the bottom pair which helps the entire D core

I'd be willing to give up a guy like Brown with our first for that kind of benificial long term solution

There are lists that have liljgren available at our pick. If we're adding our first.. let's do it with Vegas at the entry draft when we know exactly what it is. (They will have other d if vats is gone.) Brown and our first is closer to being an overpayment then fair value anyways.

Anaheim needs to offer us a discount if they want to deal. Or if they want fair value they have to include jvr.

 

[dracom]

There are lists that have liljgren available at our pick. If we're adding our first.. let's do it with Vegas at the entry draft when we know exactly what it is. (They will have other d if vats is gone.) Brown and our first is closer to being an overpayment then fair value anyways.

Anaheim needs to offer us a discount if they want to deal. Or if they want fair value they have to include jvr.

Brown and a 1st is a discount for a top 4 RHD who can play big minutes and in all situations. Again, it's the Leafs looking at Vats, if they want him they have to offer something that fills our needs.

 

[Jeypic]

Brown and a 1st is a discount for a top 4 RHD who can play big minutes and in all situations. Again, it's the Leafs looking at Vats, if they want him they have to offer something that fills our needs.

Take it or leave it

 

[dracom]

Take it or leave it

Brown and a 1st? I'd probably take it. It's selling very low on Vats but the ED will do that.

 

[Kiwi]

There are lists that have liljgren available at our pick. If we're adding our first.. let's do it with Vegas at the entry draft when we know exactly what it is. (They will have other d if vats is gone.) Brown and our first is closer to being an overpayment then fair value anyways.

Anaheim needs to offer us a discount if they want to deal. Or if they want fair value they have to include jvr.

There is a reason Liljegren has dropped that far
He's been horrific this year

Brown + 1st is a discount and if the expansion draft wasn't around in doubt Vatanen comes that cheap but he probably is and if that deal gets it done you have to pull the trigger imo

 

[Jeypic]

Brown and a 1st? I'd probably take it. It's selling very low on Vats but the ED will do that.

My honest feelings about that trade are that we lose the trade value wise but become a better team for the next 3 years similar to how Edmonton did by adding Larsson.

Doesn't really feel like discount though.. and we aren't as desperate as Edmonton was. You guys are.

Jvr and a second or brown 1 for 1.

 

[Kiwi]

My honest feelings about that trade are that we lose the trade value wise but become a better team for the next 3 years similar to how Edmonton did by adding Larsson.

Doesn't really feel like discount though.. and we aren't as desperate as Edmonton was. You guys are.

Jvr and a second or brown 1 for 1.

We're not the only team interested so if you're low balling the Ducks they will just trade him elsewhere

 

[dracom]

My honest feelings about that trade are that we lose the trade value wise but become a better team for the next 3 years similar to how Edmonton did by adding Larsson.

Doesn't really feel like discount though.. and we aren't as desperate as Edmonton was. You guys are.

Jvr and a second or brown 1 for 1.

And you're not the only team we can trade with. You can keep trying to tell us that we have to take your offer or nothing, but there are other teams out there that are looking to upgrade their D.

Like I've been saying over and over again, it's not always about "winning" a trade, it's about making a trade that makes your team better while also giving up something that the other team actually wants. Edmonton did that and guess what? They made it to the 2nd round. Stop being so focused on winning the trade, make the moves that help you win games since that's what actually matters.

 

[LuckyDucky]

My honest feelings about that trade are that we lose the trade value wise but become a better team for the next 3 years similar to how Edmonton did by adding Larsson.

Doesn't really feel like discount though.. and we aren't as desperate as Edmonton was. You guys are.

Jvr and a second or brown 1 for 1.

You just said take it or leave it for Brown + 1st and then immediately change your ask to Brown straight up. Moving target?

 

[embracedbias]

Erm... how do you 'know' this, exactly? He has one goal in 17 career NHL games.

He PROBABLY can slot in, but is he really a lock to be better than a guy like Kase in Anaheim?

Anton Lander put up otherworldly numbers in the AHL for years but he couldn't translate his game to the NHL level.

Kapanen is a good prospect that has a lot yet to prove. I'd suspect the Ducks will get signficiantly better offers than Kapanen and a mediocre pick.

Lander started scoring PPG in the AHL as a 23 year old. He was .5 PPG in the SEL at Kapanens age.

 

[Jeypic]

We're not the only team interested so if you're low balling the Ducks they will just trade him elsewhere

Realistically what teams are setup to offer more then us? everybody is low balling the ducks.

 

[AkiLumme]

Realistically what teams are setup to offer more then us? everybody is low balling the ducks.

Boston can, Philly can, Tampa can, NJ can, and that's just off the top of my head.

 

[Jeypic]

You just said take it or leave it for Brown + 1st and then immediately change your ask to Brown straight up. Moving target?

Was more talking about the rest of his post. Yea we called on vatanen. we probably even made an offer.. so take it or leave it.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Realistically what teams are setup to offer more then us? everybody is low balling the ducks.

Once again I'll point out that this is merely your opinion and there is absolutely no comment from any credible source claiming that the Ducks are having trouble getting a good offer for Vatanen. So basically you're claiming to know more about the trade market than McKenzie, Dreger, Lebrun etc, do you want to continue with that narrative?

 

[Kiwi]

Realistically what teams are setup to offer more then us? everybody is low balling the ducks.

Buffalo Tampa
That's only teams in our division as well

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

The Penguins, who the Leafs most resemble, just showed what can be done with a defence made up without a star (Letang being out all playoffs).
They need to be very careful with what future they give up for any defenceman.
Shanahan, Lamoriello, and Babcock have all said the same thing that the goal is to build a perennial cup contender, you don't do that by trading aware futures (Kapanen, Brown etc..) or high draft picks before you are ready.
Long time fans of the Leafs will be very familiar with this type of mistake.
For Duck's fans if you can get Drouin from Tampa that would be a great return in my mind.

 

[Jeypic]

Once again I'll point out that this is merely your opinion and there is absolutely no comment from any credible source claiming that the Ducks are having trouble getting a good offer for Vatanen. So basically you're claiming to know more about the trade market than McKenzie, Dreger, Lebrun etc, do you want to continue with that narrative?

Well I could link you to the drouin thread as a source if you need. Friedman is an idiot, if you need more proof ask Dallas for their 3rd +, and see how that goes.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Well I could link you to the drouin thread as a source if you need. Friedman is an idiot, if you need more proof ask Dallas for their 3rd +, and see how that goes.

You mean the thread where I posted the quotes from those credible sources who are basically saying the exact opposite of you in regards to this situation?

Dreger is saying there is significant interest and the price may be too high for the Leafs to match, what part of that leads you to believe Toronto is getting him for a discount take it or leave it offer?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

The Penguins, who the Leafs most resemble, just showed what can be done with a defence made up without a star (Letang being out all playoffs).
They need to be very careful with what future they give up for any defenceman.
Shanahan, Lamoriello, and Babcock have all said the same thing that the goal is to build a perennial cup contender, you don't do that by trading aware futures (Kapanen, Brown etc..) or high draft picks before you are ready.
Long time fans of the Leafs will be very familiar with this type of mistake.
For Duck's fans if you can get Drouin from Tampa that would be a great return in my mind.

to be fair when was the last time we had a core like this?

 

[Jeypic]

You mean the thread where I posted the quotes from those credible sources who are basically saying the exact opposite of you in regards to this situation?

Dreger is saying there is significant interest and the price may be too high for the Leafs to match, what part of that leads you to believe Toronto is getting him for a discount take it or leave it offer?

Your own bob Murray was recently quoted saying that the tsn analysts "have no bloody clue what they're talking about"

 

[dracom]

Your own bob Murray was recently quoted saying that the tsn analysts "have no bloody clue what they're talking about"

In regards to who will be exposed, since most TSN analysts had Silf being taken.

Gonna use a quote to prove your point, maybe actually read the context of the quote.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Your own bob Murray was recently quoted saying that the tsn analysts "have no bloody clue what they're talking about"

That was in regards to who the Ducks might protect in expansion, and in reference to the ridiculous early reports that they were going to have to choose between protecting Silfverberg or Manson.

So you're seriously going with this idea that you know more about this situation than Darren Dreger? That's amazing. I think we're done here.

 

[Jeypic]

That was in regards to who the Ducks might protect in expansion, and in reference to the ridiculous early reports that they were going to have to choose between protecting Silfverberg or Manson.

So you're seriously going with this idea that you know more about this situation than Darren Dreger? That's amazing. I think we're done here.

I agree with him. The price is too high to match. the price set by Friedman or fans here at least.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

I agree with him. The price is too high to match. the price set by Friedman or fans here at least.

Nice try but that's not what he said. He said Vatanen may go for a price greater than the Leafs are willing to pay. Nothing about that fits your narrative that Toronto can get Vatanen for peanuts, time to let it go.