JVR-Bozak-Marner or JVR-Bozak-Brown ?

[A1LeafNation]

They didn't show up in the Wash series and actually never really do in big games

Bozak was there in the Boston series. JVR puts up great playoff numbers too.

 

[43Kadri43]

It's hilarious that people think we can replace JVR internally. He's absurdly underrated.

 

[Advanced stats]

Didn't see the game last night?

Judging someone off of one game now are we?

 

[ShaneFalco]

It's hilarious that people think we can replace JVR internally. He's absurdly underrated.

How so?

 

[thewave]

It's hilarious that people think we can replace JVR internally. He's absurdly underrated.

You are right. We can not transplant a 60pt winger into the lineup. We can only transplant a 40 pt potentially type player with likely better defensive ability or at the very least, work ethic. That may work for this team, just as JVR may be a better fit on another team.

 

[Pi]

You are right. We can not transplant a 60pt winger into the lineup. We can only transplant a 40 pt potentially type player with likely better defensive ability or at the very least, work ethic. That may work for this team, just as JVR may be a better fit on another team.

There is nothing wrong with JvR’s work ethic. People slammed Kessel for the same reasons and he just won back to back Cups after the trade.

The problem is that the line is unbalanced. It has no one good defensively. We should try to keep JvR if his next contract only sees him getting a 1-1.25M pay raise.

Get rid of Bozak. We can go towards a cheaper C that is more rounded defensively and save money.

 

[ChickenMcNugget]

How so?

Well, he was 2nd in points for the leafs last year and consistent point producers are difficult to find just ask Montreal, New Jersey etc who are starved for offence. In fact, the only real reason that we might lose JVR is that he's so valuable that we cant afford him.

 

[MJ65]

I know this line is week defensively but we were still a good team last season and each individual on this line contributed in their own ways with total of 178 points and they were barely a minus line (combined -3) and that's not bad for a 3rd line. We need to be patient as this line is not as bad as they looked in last game. It was simply not their night and that can happen even the best line in the league (like whatever happened with Penguins in their one sided loss against Chicago)

I am sure there are going to be some changes next season (if not later this season), we are still a good team and even this is a pretty useful line that's going to produce no matter what

Please read my 1st statement before jumping all over me

 

[Pookie]

Babcock gets $8M to develop and choose the combinations that he thinks will give the team the best chance to win.

How long has this line been together?

We can therefore safely assume that this combination is one he favours and is most comfortable with.

If he's good... I'm good.

 

[Pookie]

Trade JVR
Add Kasperi
Problem solved

Going to teach Kapanen to play his off wing and shoot left now?

Problem unsolved.

 

[Pookie]

How come we only focus on 3 of the 5 in a 5 v 5 situation?

 

[ShaneFalco]

Babcock gets $8M to develop and choose the combinations that he thinks will give the team the best chance to win.

How long has this line been together?

We can therefore safely assume that this combination is one he favours and is most comfortable with.

If he's good... I'm good.

I seriously don't care how much a coach/gm is being paid or what he did with previous teams.
Carlyle won a Cup
Burke won a cup
Wilson was a fairly successful coach
Maurice is a decent coach

It's all about results now, with the Leafs.

 

[Duke16]

Any chance that Paul Stastny could be an adequate Bozak replacement on Marner's line next year?

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Kapanen - Stastny - Marner
Marleau - Kadri - Grundstrom
Martin - Aaltonen - Brown
Ex. Soshnikov

Edit: I feel like Martin would become pretty useless in the event that the other 2 fourth liners are skilled players. In that case, put Johnsson in his place.

 

[Pookie]

I seriously don't care how much a coach/gm is being paid or what he did with previous teams.
Carlyle won a Cup
Burke won a cup
Wilson was a fairly successful coach
Maurice is a decent coach

Take out his salary then.

He made an assessment... that certainly isn't new this year.... and has stuck with it.

He likes this line up and the combinations he has stuck with over other options he has considered. That includes the trio.

I'll go further in that if there was a deal out there that Lou could make right now to improve the team, he would. This is the guy that brought in the Rental after all.

Given he hasn't moved anyone on this line, he must be happy with what he has relative to what else he could get (or promote from the AHL).

 

[dimi78]

So explain New York's first goal to me. Marner, who you claim takes the center's duties down low, was on the half boards taking care of the winger's duties and failing to do it twice. Twice Marner had the puck on his stick in a position to clear the zone, twice he was sloppy and cute in his own end coughing it up to New York, the 2nd time ending up in a goal against. That has nothing to do with him taking on the center's responsibilities down low, you're out to lunch. It has to do with not making the smart and safe play when presented with the opportunity, that's a maturity thing not a Bozak thing.

Not saying that it's a Bozak issue. Never once claimed that Bozak is a problem on that line.

Marner didn't have his best game vs the Rangers. $hit happens. nobody is perfect. We're talking about what issues that line has and it's not a one game thing like how your doing harping that Marner is a problem. Dude talk about being out to lunch.

That lines main problem is that it has a passenger at both ends of the ice and it's neither Bozak or Marner. It's sticks out like a sore thumb. It's not a oh he's no good defensively thing, or he doesn't have good puck possession numbers thing or as dumb as claiming Marner of all people lacks maturity thing.

Let me ask you this Marner had a much better 3rd how did he do it? He worked harder that's how.

It's a compete issue that line has from none other than JVR. When it's at it's best Marner & Bozak are executing and yes the defensive zone switch that happens does really happen and work while JVR rides shot gun loses all puck battles, never back tracks and lets men go to the net free willy styles for easy goals. All of the problems JVR has are compete related. That's why Philly traded him. World class talent that plays pick up hockey not competitive hockey at all. It's a problem, not a good thing and I'm so sick and tired of it being turned a blind eye.

Everybody makes mistakes, some times mistakes are forced and that's do to good play from the opposition. That does exist and something very few people take into account when they make comments that player x is no good defensively. Between Bozak, Marner and JVR one doesn't compete that's the problem that line faces that causes all of it's issues that the other 3 lines don't have.

There's no excuse for having compete issues. None, zero. The way JVR competes coaches of yesterday would have had fits. Mike Keenan would have lost his mind. Scotty Bowmen would have benched him. That's how far down JVR's compete has regress. He's not getting better he's getting worst. Incredible how people don't see this.

 

[MJ65]

Any chance that Paul Stastny could be an adequate Bozak replacement on Marner's line next year?

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Kapanen - Stastny - Marner
Marleau - Kadri - Grundstrom
Martin - Aaltonen - Brown
Ex. Soshnikov

Edit: I feel like Martin would become pretty useless in the event that the other 2 fourth liners are skilled players. In that case, put Johnsson in his place.

The question would be if we can afford the contract (term / dollars) that he will be seeking

 

[43Kadri43]

How so?

Highest GAR on the Leafs last season; elite kWAR; top-15 LW league-wide based on Berkshire's comprehensive metric.

He's sheltered, but he's been elite in said usage. His issues aren't even in the defensive end, they're with his transition game.

 

[moon111]

If you put Marleau on with Bozak and Marner, I think it's end of discussion for that line. I honestly think Marleau and Marner could not only work together, but do it at top speed as well.

The question would be, could JVR/Kadri/Komarov work together? That's a lot of turn-overs for Komarov to handle.

 

[Stephen]

One thing I never really understood but haven't questioned out loud is what is the purpose for keeping Bozak and JVR together? Seems like they've been together forever now, and they've just replaced Kessel with Marner. It's a recipe that's always been a bit of a deal with the devil: great offensive output, but untimely meltdowns and stretches of lackluster play. Why not put JVR on the Kadri line, or try Bozak in an energy role? Maybe stick an energy winger on their line to balance out their run and gun tendency.

 

[Polaris1010]

JVR is bad defensively, and Marner makes his share of mistakes, but at the end of the day for me it's Bozak who's the biggest problem. The center has the most defensive responsibility on the line by far. So trading a winger and keeping the center won't solve the problem.

Exactly!

That's why I still do not understand why they do not put Nylander at center. Right now!

It could be better. It is hard to see how can Nylander at center be any worst.

Put Bozak on the wing if they won't trade him.

 

[REALTALK81]

All 3 are currently scoring above PPG. What an awesome problem to have. Our above ppg players are deemed as our weakest link. First time in my life where I can say that. I am excited!!

 

[LeafingTheWay]

One thing I never really understood but haven't questioned out loud is what is the purpose for keeping Bozak and JVR together? Seems like they've been together forever now, and they've just replaced Kessel with Marner. It's a recipe that's always been a bit of a deal with the devil: great offensive output, but untimely meltdowns and stretches of lackluster play. Why not put JVR on the Kadri line, or try Bozak in an energy role? Maybe stick an energy winger on their line to balance out their run and gun tendency.

Because there are literally no other combinations that work. You can NOT put JVR on Kadri's line because that's the 'shut-down' line. You can not put JVR on Matthews's line because Hyman is the LW locked on that line. So where else can you put him?

A combination that could work:
JVR - Matthews - Brown
Hyman - Nylander - Marner
Marleau - Kadri - Komarov
Martin - Moore - Kapanen

 

[Polaris1010]

When the Leafs still had Kessel, I used to point out that the centre is the most important player defensively on a line. Look at how much Kessel's plus/minus has improved in Pittsburgh. Has he suddenly learned started playing better defense in his own end? I doubt it. He's just sheltered like he needs to be and is still a game-breaker. The Penguins added him for a reason.

Exactly!

This may not be Hockey 101 - more like Hockey 201.

Bozak was never good at defense, since day 1.

We fans had hope he would improve, but he never did. Never as in all his years here.

It made for entertaining hockey, but you cannot win with guys like that in the lineup.

If they demand the 4th line center like Boyle or Moore to be sound defensively, why do we not make the same demand of centers who are higher up in the line up.

We can use the excuse that Bozak is an offensive, but he never even scored 20 goals in a season, and look who were his linemates. Actually he did score 20 once, but his line was -100 for the season.

 

[The CyNick]

Judging someone off of one game now are we?

In terms of his CURRENT play, yes.

 

[dimi78]

If you put Marleau on with Bozak and Marner, I think it's end of discussion for that line. I honestly think Marleau and Marner could not only work together, but do it at top speed as well.

The question would be, could JVR/Kadri/Komarov work together? That's a lot of turn-overs for Komarov to handle.

Now we're understanding the dilemma and actually having an intelligent hockey conversation. Bozak has to deal with a lot of turnovers as well with Marner. That's part of an elite players game turnovers. Take a look as far as you want at the league leaders in turnovers/giveaways it's chalk full of the most skilled playmakers in the game. That's why compete is so important and a perfect example for why ........ wait for it....... why Hyman works with Mathews and Nylander. You turn the puck over go get it back.

There's zero of that in JVR's game how do you hide that and benefit the team since he does score goals 5v5?

Babcock IMO has identified what a lot of people see is the Mitch Marner motor as the best way to offset that. In most nights it works. Babcock helps that a bit by protecting the line.

There's going to be nights , shifts where Bozak & Marner wont be at there best and the line will have major problems stuck in the zone more than one would like but what options does Babcock have at this point with the way JVR competes? IMO where he has him is really the lone place for him.