JVR-Bozak-Marner or JVR-Bozak-Brown ?

[moon111]

If you want to take the chance on turning the puck over, you have to be ready for it. Last season, two of the biggest turn-over forwards on the Leafs are Marner (62 - 31st worst all-time Leafs) and Kadri (59 - 36th worst all-time Leafs). Kadri's level of puck distribution has him making plays on the same pace as Zack Hyman. Usually he's trying to split two or more players on his own. He's actually pretty good at it. But the downside is, when it doesn't work, turnover. That's where Komarov comes in. Kadri's wingers know they have to be ready when the puck comes the other way. That is a key difference in the defense of the two lines. The problem with the JVR/Bozak/Marner line is mostly speed, despite Marner being there. If JVR or Bozak turn the puck over, Marner is quick and can hustle to get back. But if Marner turns the puck over, now that line isn't looking so good. All that line has to do is take a page out of the playoffs. Marner learns a safe play like Matthews dumping the puck into Hyman's corner. And JVR can't go to the net. If he does that, he's taking himself out of the play. When he just shot from the perimeter in the playoffs, he was a +3. I'm sure Babcock will attempt to have these guys adjusted before any line changes happen. Two games - good grief.

 

[Apotheosis]

JVR is bad defensively, and Marner makes his share of mistakes, but at the end of the day for me it's Bozak who's the biggest problem. The center has the most defensive responsibility on the line by far. So trading a winger and keeping the center won't solve the problem.

Also, Marner looks worse defensively playing with those guys because so often he's the first forward back, or the one who's recovering the loose pucks while the others float around or blow the zone early.

It's interesting if you compare Matthews to Bozak. Matthews plays with an intensity when the other team has the puck. He tries to always be on the defensive side of the puck and break up plays in the neutral zone. Bozak will just let the puck/opponents get by him in the neutral zone and then skate back. It's like his brain is lagging 2 seconds behind when the other team has the puck.

If we can get picks for both Bozak and JVR, I'm happy with that. Too many times I see Bozak on a wing position when defending in the D-Zone, especially on one of the goals last night. How are you diagonally facing the goal from the slot when you're a centre!?

I think we'll see Nylander as a centre next year, leading to this;

Matthews-Marner
Nylander
Kadri
Moor/Fehr/Gauthier

And then fill in current wingers (so, Brown, Kapanen, Marleau etc.)

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Trade JVR
Add Kasperi
Problem solved

This.
Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Marleau - Kadri - Komarov
Kappy/Brown - Bozak - Marner
Martin - Moore - Brown/Kappy

 

[rent free]

If we can get picks for both Bozak and JVR, I'm happy with that. Too many times I see Bozak on a wing position when defending in the D-Zone, especially on one of the goals last night. How are you diagonally facing the goal from the slot when you're a centre!?

I think we'll see Nylander as a centre next year, leading to this;

Matthews-Marner
Nylander
Kadri
Moor/Fehr/Gauthier

And then fill in current wingers (so, Brown, Kapanen, Marleau etc.)

leafs most likely won't re-sign moore and fehr, leaving gauthier and aaltonen to fight for the 4th line center spot

 

[Apotheosis]

leafs most likely won't re-sign moore and fehr, leaving gauthier and aaltonen to fight for the 4th line center spot

Yeah, I can see that.

 

[firstemperor]

JVR is bad defensively, and Marner makes his share of mistakes, but at the end of the day for me it's Bozak who's the biggest problem. The center has the most defensive responsibility on the line by far. So trading a winger and keeping the center won't solve the problem.

Also, Marner looks worse defensively playing with those guys because so often he's the first forward back, or the one who's recovering the loose pucks while the others float around or blow the zone early.

Agreed strongly with the Bozak sentiment. I don't know if he's worst/more lazy than JVR defensively but he's no better- and that inherently is a bigger problem given his duties and responsibilities as a C. It's more criminal to me because I actually think Bozak would make most lines in this league bad defensively but JVR is more amendable to success with the right C.

With Marner, I don't think his issues are as related to compete as the others. I'd be lying if I wasn't a bit worried about him. Fans like to compare him to Patrick Kane, and while he may still only be 20 years old, Kane's tenacity and ability to win pucks at his same stage were miles better. It's early in his career but I'd like to see Marner more competitive on the puck. He did the same thing with London where he'd just let Tkachuk dig for the puck on the boards. You can't get away with that at the NHL level and never develop your game around it.

Though I agree if we're looking to swing either, JVR is the better option with his perceived value and our C depth.

 

[Terrible GM]

Thing with JVR is he consistently has been bad on back checks and coverage in his own zone. If he bags us 30 goals great, but I'd love to see the numbers of his missed plays leading to goals. I'd guess it would be around 10 goals against due to bad defensive play for last season. Put Brown in there who can get you 20 (at least) and is very good defensively, I think that lines offense takes a small hit, but defensively its much better. Bring in Leivo for the 4th line (or use Fehr or Moore on the wing).

Short version... TRADE JVR NOW. Also I'd keep Bozak and let him walk the the end of the season. We need the centre depth for all of this year and hopefully playoffs.

Edit.. to add some lines

2017
-----
Hyman - Mathews - Nylander
Marleau - Kadri - Komarov
Brown - Bozak - Marner
Martin - Moore - Brown

2018
------
Hyman - Mathews - Marner
Marleau - Kadri - Brown
Grundstrom - Nylander - Kapanen
Martin - Aaltonen - Soshnikov/Leivo/Johnsson

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

You're only as strong as your weakest link. The line just isn't strong enough defensively and it hurts the whole team

 

[DitchMarner]

For what it's worth, I remember Bozak made at least a couple of strong defensive plays against the Jets.

Also, he scored the GWG last night, didn't he?

Also, van Riemsdyk had three points against the Jets.

These guys are what they are... they'll be gone before takes the team takes the next step.

I don't see the point in beating a dead constantly by chastising them all the time. No one says they're Selke-level forwards.

If Bozak hadn't scored that third period goal last night, I think bashing that line would be more justified.

 

[Not My Tempo]

I’m don’t really think we should change anything unless we start really losing games, but yea, I’ve been on the trade JVR/Bozak for defensive help/picks for a long time now.

 

[DitchMarner]

When the Leafs still had Kessel, I used to point out that the centre is the most important player defensively on a line. Look at how much Kessel's plus/minus has improved in Pittsburgh. Has he suddenly learned started playing better defense in his own end? I doubt it. He's just sheltered like he needs to be and is still a game-breaker. The Penguins added him for a reason.

Bozak just doesn't have the size, strength or defensive instincts or hockey IQ to be a solid defensive centre. But now that Matthews is the number one centre, I don't think his defensive play is as much of a problem. He's not a key cog any longer. If the guy is going to suck and cost the team games, it'll make sense to rip him... but he was fine is in the first game and he redeemed him last night with that goal he scored. May as well leave him alone for now. He's not going to transform into Ryan Kesler overnight and Lou isn't going to trade him based on two games that the won in regulation. Just hope he plays better versus CHI. THAT game will be a challenge and hopefully that line won't be burned by Kane.

 

[frizzer1]

They have played 2 games, folks.....ok so far the line has been bad defensively...and I'd like to see marner make the safe play in the d zone instead of those back passes etc...
If they are still doing this after 10 to 15 games then there should be a change..

..but offensively Marner is a creative genius..no safe plays wanted there..
I have never seen a player coming off the right point on the pp more dangerous than Marner....the puck goes to an open guy in the slot every time......how come everyone can't do that?

 

[dimi78]

You don't think Kadri and Komarov are strong enough defensively? Consensus is they are two of the best defenders in the league. Right?

No. The problem that consist with the Bozak line doesn't include Bozak or Marner. Bozak is unfairly criticized and lumped into who the problem is just because they've been line mates for many of years. JVR doesn't compete not even a little that's the problem at both ends of the ice. Move him anywhere not just Kadri & Komorov and the problems becomes there's.

Bozak did have the same compete issues under Carlyle but since Babcock became coach he's back to playing at the level compete wise as he was under Wilson. He's not perfect nobody is. Sure at times he could get puck watching I the D zone and not do good enough job in support of the D down low as the center but make no mistake the major issue that line has is that JVR doesn't compete at all. Like I mean freaking zero.

The fix is bench JVR for not competing and if he doesn't respond healthy scratch and trade him.

 

[thewave]

Pull the trigger and play tomorrows lines today... Screw it

Hyman Matthews Marner
Marleau Kadri Komarov
Leivo Nylander Brown
Martin Fehr Kappy
Moore, Goat

 

[frizzer1]

Bozak just doesn't have the size, strength or defensive instincts or hockey IQ to be a solid defensive centre. . May as well leave him alone for now.

Yep......they can't have a star at every position......for now Bozak is adequate, don't expect more from him..

 

[Crease Master]

The issues with this line have to do with the immaturity of Marner as a player, and nothing to do with Bozak or JVR. I think Bozak is just a go-to punching bag for fans who don't really have a good idea of what's actually happening on the ice. He was a Burke free wallet and part of the country club at times during his career here so he'll never have value to some people. It's easier to bag on him or on pending free agent JVR than to be honest about one of our prized rookies hitting a bit of a speed bump in his development.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

The issues with this line have to do with the immaturity of Marner as a player, and nothing to do with Bozak or JVR. I think Bozak is just a go-to punching bag for fans who don't really have a good idea of what's actually happening on the ice. He was a Burke free wallet and part of the country club at times during his career here so he'll never have value to some people. It's easier to bag on him or on pending free agent JVR than to be honest about one of our prized rookies hitting a bit of a speed bump in his development.

What was their excuse before Marner's arrival? Lack of defensive awareness and soft board play are the main factors.....not Marner.

 

[ShaneFalco]

The issues with this line have to do with the immaturity of Marner as a player, and nothing to do with Bozak or JVR. I think Bozak is just a go-to punching bag for fans who don't really have a good idea of what's actually happening on the ice. He was a Burke free wallet and part of the country club at times during his career here so he'll never have value to some people. It's easier to bag on him or on pending free agent JVR than to be honest about one of our prized rookies hitting a bit of a speed bump in his development.

Right it's the people who don't know hockey that have a problem with Bozak
Not his historically poor defensive play for years on the line with JVR.
I guess all of Bozak's linemates have just been immature and not up to his standard

 

[Cleetus]

one play last night in the third I cant remember what Ranger it was but jvr just let him drive right to the net, i was in total shock, time to trade him!

 

[Crease Master]

Right it's the people who don't know hockey that have a problem with Bozak
Not his historically poor defensive play for years on the line with JVR.
I guess all of Bozak's linemates have just been immature and not up to his standard

I guess Bozak was wearing number 16 last night and playing like a sloppy drunk with the puck until the 3rd period, I thought that was Marner.

 

[cannucky]

everybody keeps arguing without taking reality into consideration , Mathews gets to play against the opponents 4th line most of the night at home , He only gets Offensive zone faceoffs unless there is an icing while Bozo's line gets at least half the D zone starts and sees the other teams 2nd line and Kadri's line gets the balance of D zone starts and plays the other teams top line , thats the way it is and spouting opinions on this lines D verses another line that doesn't have to start in a hole 1/2 the night is just dumb .

 

[The CyNick]

Trade JVR
Add Kasperi
Problem solved

How does that fix Marner?

 

[dimi78]

The issues with this line have to do with the immaturity of Marner as a player, and nothing to do with Bozak or JVR. I think Bozak is just a go-to punching bag for fans who don't really have a good idea of what's actually happening on the ice. He was a Burke free wallet and part of the country club at times during his career here so he'll never have value to some people. It's easier to bag on him or on pending free agent JVR than to be honest about one of our prized rookies hitting a bit of a speed bump in his development.

When Marner isn't at his best you know doing practically all the heavy lifting, forchecking, puck retrieval at both ends, back tracking, drive the line, shot blocking, reading defensive plays intercepting passes with his active stick.... You know the omens work your right he's not all that good
Although I do agree about Bozak and believe me he's not one of my favorites everything comes down to compete.

It's a simple trait. Who on that line doesn't work is the goat and it's one guy who doesn't pull his weight not even a little that's the problem that leads to all of the mistakes at a high rate. There's no such thing as a perfect hockey game. Defensively the issues are always exaggerated. There's another team on the ice. They're capable of doing good things and there's really nothing you could do defensively about it.

Where there's no excuse is not competing, Marner's compete is 2nd to nobody on this team. The amount of ice this guy covers is ridiculous and kind of why JVR is where he is because Marner covers up a lot for the lack of JVR compete.

The way JVR competes you could put him with Mathews and Hyman and the same problems will consist. You could put him with Kadri & Komorov and the same issue will persist. Remove JVR from both Bozak and Marner and they improve as a line.

 

[ACC1224]

The issues with this line have to do with the immaturity of Marner as a player, and nothing to do with Bozak or JVR. I think Bozak is just a go-to punching bag for fans who don't really have a good idea of what's actually happening on the ice. He was a Burke free wallet and part of the country club at times during his career here so he'll never have value to some people. It's easier to bag on him or on pending free agent JVR than to be honest about one of our prized rookies hitting a bit of a speed bump in his development.

Lol.

 

[ACC1224]

When Marner isn't at his best you know doing practically all the heavy lifting, forchecking, puck retrieval at both ends, back tracking, drive the line, shot blocking, reading defensive plays intercepting passes with his active stick.... You know the omens work your right he's not all that good
Although I do agree about Bozak and believe me he's not one of my favorites everything comes down to compete.

It's a simple trait. Who on that line doesn't work is the goat and it's one guy who doesn't pull his weight not even a little that's the problem that leads to all of the mistakes at a high rate. There's no such thing as a perfect hockey game. Defensively the issues are always exaggerated. There's another team on the ice. They're capable of doing good things and there's really nothing you could do defensively about it.

Where there's no excuse is not competing, Marner's compete is 2nd to nobody on this team. The amount of ice this guy covers is ridiculous and kind of why JVR is where he is because Marner covers up a lot for the lack of JVR compete.

The way JVR competes you could put him with Mathews and Hyman and the same problems will consist. You could put him with Kadri & Komorov and the same issue will persist. Remove JVR from both Bozak and Marner and they improve as a line.

This guy gets it