JVR-Bozak-Marner or JVR-Bozak-Brown ?

[Mess]

Really? I didnt see Babs out there did I miss it?

You must have as that Hyman -- Matthews -- Nylander line is all Babcock's doing.

 

[PromisedLand]

In my mind, it has to be Brown. The line seems to be much more stable defensively with him.

By the same token, moving Marner to Kadri's line could give us another lethal weapon if they develop chemistry.

Only one way to find out Babs...

as cool as it may be watching two former London Knights together on a line; they both are play makers and like to drive the play - not saying it won't work; but chances are very slim

 

[PromisedLand]

I wouldn't mind seeing
Leivo-Moore-Marner.
Leivo can score and has more offensive ability than martin and I'm sure they'd be defensively sound enough. Probably won't happen though. Either way I don't think you can go back to JVR-Bozak-Marner anytime soon with how well brown is doing on that line.

to be honest; as much as I like Martin; I don't see how Martin deserves a spot over Leivo.

Babs' reasoning is that Leivo is a top 9 player; so he will come in for top 9 duties only not on the 4th line - while Marner plays on fourth line - yea ok Babs

 

[PromisedLand]

How the heck do you consider trading Brown. His cap is great and his play better! The line looks better with Brown.

Marner can stay on the 4th, put Leivo in there with Moore.

If we were in playoffs right now; I am almost positive Babs would have done that

 

[Clark4Ever]

as cool as it may be watching two former London Knights together on a line; they both are play makers and like to drive the play - not saying it won't work; but chances are very slim

Nothing wrong with two great play makers on the same line. Look at Matthews and Nylander.

Considering the current logjam of forwards, I think it's definitely worth a try. Marner can't stay on the 4th line and the options are limited.

 

[Zybalto]

Hard to figure out what's going to happen with Marner as you just can't bury him on the 4th line and expecting him to succeed there. The game against Washington was an odd one as Marner was, by far, the best 5v5 and overall possession player on the ice for the Leafs and Brown was the worst (the whole line was its usual train wreck possession wise) but Brown got the goal so it masked that. I still like Brown on that line though as he seems his high motor is infecting Bozak and JVR to an extent.

Much like the goal that helped Brown, I think Marner just needs a goal or someone to convert what seems like an unusually high number of missed tap-ins he's been setting up. I'm not saying the perception of his play has been completely overblown (not liking the turnovers), I just think he hasn't been all that bad. It'll all even out in the end though. Only so many pucks can be whiffed on and hop over sticks.

 

[PromisedLand]

Nothing wrong with two great play makers on the same line. Look at Matthews and Nylander.

Considering the current logjam of forwards, I think it's definitely worth a try. Marner can't stay on the 4th line and the options are limited.

the only thing though is that both Matthews and Willy have a heavy shot and a quick release; Kadri is just getting better with his shot making while Mitch has a long way to go IMO

 

[Mess]

to be honest; as much as I like Martin; I don't see how Martin deserves a spot over Leivo.

Babs' reasoning is that Leivo is a top 9 player; so he will come in for top 9 duties only not on the 4th line - while Marner plays on fourth line - yea ok Babs

This might shock people but Marner might be in danger of being replaced by Leivo more than Martin is.

Babcock loves the physical game Martin brings and feels being among the league leaders in hits in limited TOI/g has a benefit to the Leafs that few bring to the team as a tangible impact.

If Marner isn't scoring or producing offense, what does he bring to the table and being a team worse -7 +/- on the team is not helping his case either with the coach when he doesn't have the puck defensively?

Marner rightfully so has earned a long rope, despite his early struggles but its not endless either and needs to get his game back in track to help the Leafs.

Marner = sophomore slump at present.

 

[Budsfan]

The puzzling fact is the way Marner has regressed, if I was a believer in such things, I would believe in the Sophmore Jinx.

Last year he played well with Bozak and JVR and was compared favorably with Nylander and they were thought to be close to equals but this year he has been playing poorly and not to have his head in the game but having said that I haven't given up on him and I think he will bounce back, he had a heavy body check back a number of games ago and was slow to get up, I'm not sure that had anything to do with this but it may be a factor, in his confidence.

Currently Brown has stolen his spot and to get back on a top line he will have to unseat a R/W.

 

[PromisedLand]

This might shock people but Marner might be in danger of being replaced by Leivo more than Martin is.

Babcock loves the physical game Martin brings and feels being among the league leaders in hits in limited TOI/g has a benefit to the Leafs that few bring to the team as a tangible impact.

If Marner isn't scoring or producing offense, what does he bring to the table and being a team worse -7 +/- on the team is not helping his case either with the coach when he doesn't have the puck defensively?

Marner rightfully so has earned a long rope, despite his early struggles but its not endless either and needs to get his game back in track to help the Leafs.

Marner = sophomore slump at present.

True. But Babs has gone on record saying that Leivo will only draw in the line up for top 9 duties, Leivo will not play 4th line.

But just in case Leivo does draw in on the 4th line and Marner gets benched could you imagine the media crap storm

 

[PromisedLand]

The puzzling fact is the way Marner has regressed, if I was a believer in such things, I would believe in the Sophmore Jinx.

Last year he played well with Bozak and JVR and was compared favorably with Nylander and they were thought to be close to equals but this year he has been playing poorly and not to have his head in the game but having said that I haven't given up on him and I think he will bounce back, he had a heavy body check back a number of games ago and was slow to get up, I'm not sure that had anything to do with this but it may be a factor, in his confidence.

Currently Brown has stolen his spot and to get back on a top line he will have to unseat a R/W.

Marner put on muscle and weight in the summer which IMO has slowed him down; he isn't skating as fast as he was last season. He was very elusive (almost Gretz like) but he gets caught on board a lot.

It may come back; to be seen I guess.

 

[Mess]

True. But Babs has gone on record saying that Leivo will only draw in the line up for top 9 duties, Leivo will not play 4th line.

But just in case Leivo does draw in on the 4th line and Marner gets benched could you imagine the media crap storm

I take Babcock's quote as direct rebuttal to Martin out and Leivo in fan suggestion. Leivo drawing in for Martin has been made clear by the coaches comment. IMO

What about if the 4th line becomes Martin -- Moore -- Fehr in time?

Leivo and Marner might be together, just not as you think.

 

[PromisedLand]

I take Babcock's quote as direct rebuttal to Martin out and Leivo in fan suggestion. Leivo drawing in for Martin has been made clear by the coaches comment. IMO

What about if the 4th line becomes Martin -- Moore -- Fehr in time?

I guess it gives babs more option on PK and FO (Moore is pretty good) but then Babs loses offensive flare on that line

 

[Zybalto]

This seems eerily similar to Nylander last year. All we need now is Button talking about trading Marner for defensive help.

20 games from now, all will be well IMO.

 

[Sypher04]

Thing is, Kappy plays a totally different game then Martin, so not sure he's the replacement for him there. I think Kappy is a top 9 guy.

You could make the same argument against Leivo imo. Kapanen has speed, a great shot to compliment marners playmaking ability, strong two way player, and fehr/Moore can play the line mucker role

 

[stickty111]

as cool as it may be watching two former London Knights together on a line; they both are play makers and like to drive the play - not saying it won't work; but chances are very slim

The 2-3 times they have played together, they have been great. I dont buy this argument. Kadri and Nylander worked well too, so why wouldnt Kadri and Marner.

 

[glue]

You could make the same argument against Leivo imo. Kapanen has speed, a great shot to compliment marners playmaking ability, strong two way player, and fehr/Moore can play the line mucker role

Yeah that's a fair point

 

[Budsfan]

Marner put on muscle and weight in the summer which IMO has slowed him down; he isn't skating as fast as he was last season. He was very elusive (almost Gretz like) but he gets caught on board a lot.

It may come back; to be seen I guess.

I agree something is wrong but I can't put my finger on it?

 

[stickty111]

2 games and apparently everything is fine now. That line was still horrendous possession wise against Capitals but they scored so it doesnt matter right(Marner was the problem)
They got hemmed in a few times against yesterday but they scored so it doesnt matter right(Marner was the problem)
What we are seeing is that line is still pretty bad, its just Bozak and JVR who are more responsible for why Marner is on the 4th line, are actually competing now since they got the message from Babcock. Didnt Babcock say "when its equal, tie goes to the veteran". What this means is that all 3 werent playing well but its easier to demote the kid.
If Bozak and JVR actually competed from the start, we wouldnt be in this situation, but a certain someone is thinking Marner was the biggest problem.
As much as I love Brown, he hasnt fixed that line at all, its just he scored 2 so people think that line is good. Marner wasnt the problem and its showing. He should be back in the top 9 but there is no room unless you put Hyman on the 4th or Komarov on the 4th.
I know a certain someone is loving Marner on the 4th line, and loving Brown scoring 2 as he can blame Marner now, but its pretty clear that line still isnt good, and Marner wasnt the problem. Its more that JVR and Bozak got the message when they got called out by their coach, as now they are actually trying but that line is still weak. Those 2 goals are hiding this fact.

 

[Clark4Ever]

The puzzling fact is the way Marner has regressed, if I was a believer in such things, I would believe in the Sophmore Jinx.

Last year he played well with Bozak and JVR and was compared favorably with Nylander and they were thought to be close to equals but this year he has been playing poorly and not to have his head in the game but having said that I haven't given up on him and I think he will bounce back, he had a heavy body check back a number of games ago and was slow to get up, I'm not sure that had anything to do with this but it may be a factor, in his confidence.

Currently Brown has stolen his spot and to get back on a top line he will have to unseat a R/W.

I think he has to adjust to playing with the extra muscle he put on in the off season. He doesn't seem as explosive or agile this season.

 

[zeke]

the problem with both lines is....

....bozak.

 

[IPS]

2 games and apparently everything is fine now. That line was still horrendous possession wise against Capitals but they scored so it doesnt matter right(Marner was the problem)
They got hemmed in a few times against yesterday but they scored so it doesnt matter right(Marner was the problem)
What we are seeing is that line is still pretty bad, its just Bozak and JVR who are more responsible for why Marner is on the 4th line, are actually competing now since they got the message from Babcock. Didnt Babcock say "when its equal, tie goes to the veteran". What this means is that all 3 werent playing well but its easier to demote the kid.
If Bozak and JVR actually competed from the start, we wouldnt be in this situation, but a certain someone is thinking Marner was the biggest problem.
As much as I love Brown, he hasnt fixed that line at all, its just he scored 2 so people think that line is good. Marner wasnt the problem and its showing. He should be back in the top 9 but there is no room unless you put Hyman on the 4th or Komarov on the 4th.
I know a certain someone is loving Marner on the 4th line, and loving Brown scoring 2 as he can blame Marner now, but its pretty clear that line still isnt good, and Marner wasnt the problem. Its more that JVR and Bozak got the message when they got called out by their coach, as now they are actually trying but that line is still weak. Those 2 goals are hiding this fact.

Anyone with 2 eyes and half a brain stem can see that Bozak's line is still getting dominated in possession and giving up chances left right and center.

I'm really glad that Brown has scored a couple goals because he doesn't belong on the 4th line either, and he did absolutely nothing to warrant being demoted there.

 

[stickty111]

Anyone with 2 eyes and half a brain stem can see that Bozak's line is still getting dominated in possession and giving up chances left right and center.

I'm really glad that Brown has scored a couple goals because he doesn't belong on the 4th line either, and he did absolutely nothing to warrant being demoted there.

I agree. That line hasnt changed aside from 2 things. Bozak and JVR started trying, and Brown deserved a promotion. That is is still pretty weak though.

 

[BlueForever75]

I think the move of Brown to Bozak and JVR will prove to a great move when it comes to the defensive side of the game without too much missing from offensive side.

When it comes to Matthews line it stays as is. But lines 3 and 4 is where I think some tinkering would be wise.

I don't see any value in Marner on the 4th line unless you are going to roll out 4 strong skating, scoring lines. Which means if he stays there Martin has to be left off. Leivo should be on the 4th line with Moore and Marner. If Martin stays then Marner and Komarov need to switch spots.

Lineup should be

Hyman- Matthews-Nylander
JVR-Bozak-Brown
Marleau-Kadri-Komarov
Leivo-Moore-Marner

or

Hyman- Matthews-Nylander
JVR-Bozak-Brown
Marleau-Kadri-Marner
Komarov-Moore-Martin

or

Hyman- Matthews-Nylander
JVR-Bozak-Brown
Marleau-Kadri-Marner
Komarov-Moore-Leivo

 

[IPS]

I agree. That line hasnt changed aside from 2 things. Bozak and JVR started trying, and Brown deserved a promotion. That is is still pretty weak though.

Bozak's trying hard about 50% of the time now.

He completely gave up on the backcheck on this one though: