Player Discussion Josh Manson

[OCSportsfan]

Huh? Lovejoy has been hurt since Manson's emergence. You have no ****ing clue what the coaching staff thinks about the Manson vs. Lovejoy debate at this point. They probably still value Lovejoy more but your arrogance is unbelievable when it comes to stuff like this.

It's not like this kid has been stashed away in the AHL for 2-3 years and the GM/coach have refused to give him a chance. He's been in college, and got his feet wet towards the end of last year at the AHL level. Manson has been put in a top 4 role in the absence of Lovejoy, and the possession numbers he's posted are extremely impressive (i'm sure I'll hear blah blah blah he looks like a rookie in response). Again, good chance he goes down once Lovejoy is healthy but it's a long season and I don't think he's as far off of overtaking Lovejoy as you think

I actually think he has played to the level of Lovejoy in his time up here. Don't forget, Lovejoy was a third pairing D-man until he was paired with Fowler. Manson is as Physical, but I think has better skills. The only thing IMO that Lovejoy is better at is experience. Now I agree when everyone is healthy he should be sent down to get more seasoning, but I would not be surprised to see him play in the playoffs if we do not make a trade.

And Angel Duck is right, you have no idea what the coaches think of him yet in relation to Lovejoy.

 

[TheJoeMan]

Huh? Lovejoy has been hurt since Manson's emergence. You have no ****ing clue what the coaching staff thinks about the Manson vs. Lovejoy debate at this point. They probably still value Lovejoy more but your arrogance is unbelievable when it comes to stuff like this.

It's not like this kid has been stashed away in the AHL for 2-3 years and the GM/coach have refused to give him a chance. He's been in college, and got his feet wet towards the end of last year at the AHL level. Manson has been put in a top 4 role in the absence of Lovejoy, and the possession numbers he's posted are extremely impressive (i'm sure I'll hear blah blah blah he looks like a rookie in response). Again, good chance he goes down once Lovejoy is healthy[\b] but it's a long season and I don't think he's as far off of overtaking Lovejoy as you think

So I'm arrogent but you agree with me? This kid has surprised us but he's not going to pass over Lovejoy without Lovejoy playing his way out of the lineup. And he's been good compared to our expecations but not better than Lovejoy, he just hasn't. I feel it's been no coicedence that we've been in is funk ever since Lovejoy went down.

I find extremely hilarious that I'm being criticized for assumig how the coaching staff is going to operate when everyone agrees that's what's probably going to happen.

 

[AngelDuck]

So I'm arrogent but you agree with me? This kid has surprised us but he's not going to pass over Lovejoy without Lovejoy playing his way out of the lineup. And he's been good compared to our expecations but not better than Lovejoy, he just hasn't. I feel it's been no coicedence that we've been in is funk ever since Lovejoy went down.

I find extremely hilarious that I'm being criticized for assumig how the coaching staff is going to operate when everyone agrees that's what's probably going to happen.

No everyone doesn't agree with you. You believe that Manson has no chance of overtaking Lovejoy no matter what this season. I'm telling you that that is not in line with reality. Lovejoy will have pressure on him to perform once he gets off IR, because chances are the coaching staff has been impressed with Manson. Lovejoy gets the benefit of the doubt because he's a veteran, but I find it extremely laughable that you think he's some unmovable cog to our defense that can't be replaced by a talented young player. I'd be concerned if the coaching staff thought of this situation like that.

 

[bumperkisser]

No everyone doesn't agree with you. You believe that Manson has no chance of overtaking Lovejoy no matter what this season. I'm telling you that that is not in line with reality. Lovejoy will have pressure on him to perform once he gets off IR, because chances are the coaching staff has been impressed with Manson. Lovejoy gets the benefit of the doubt because he's a veteran, but I find it extremely laughable that you think he's some unmovable cog to our defense that can't be replaced by a talented young player. I'd be concerned if the coaching staff thought of this situation like that.

i dunno if he ever said that

 

[TheJoeMan]

No everyone doesn't agree with you. You believe that Manson has no chance of overtaking Lovejoy no matter what this season. I'm telling you that that is not in line with reality. Lovejoy will have pressure on him to perform once he gets off IR, because chances are the coaching staff has been impressed with Manson. Lovejoy gets the benefit of the doubt because he's a veteran, but I find it extremely laughable that you think he's some unmovable cog to our defense that can't be replaced by a talented young player. I'd be concerned if the coaching staff thought of this situation like that.

The argument was that Manson is better than Lovejoy right and that simply isn't true. Could he overtake Lovejoy at some point this season? Maybe but that means Lovejoy has fallen off a cliff. We're all simply really excited about this kid because NO ONE expected him to be playing with us already let alone the level at which he's playing.

But the fact of the matter is, and apparently you agree with me, is Manson will go back to Norfolk when Lovejoy is healthy. Judging by the way d-men keep going down I'm sure we'll see him again. He could eventually play someone out of a job but those veterans have to lose their job too. Lovejoy being out doesn't diminish his place with this team despite how excited we all are with this kid.

 

[Getzmonster]

I keep seeing it reiterated that Manson won't make one of our vets expendable, but isn't that exactly what just happened with Allen? Sure, Allen was on his way out regardless, but the timing of the trade implies that Murray/Bruce felt Manson was able to handle the role knowing LJoy and Fistric are still weeks away.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

I keep seeing it reiterated that Manson won't make one of our vets expendable, but isn't that exactly what just happened with Allen? Sure, Allen was on his way out regardless, but the timing of the trade implies that Murray/Bruce felt Manson was able to handle the role knowing LJoy and Fistric are still weeks away.

People are going to say that but if you remember, there were rumors at the beginning of the season we were trying to move a D man. I think we just happened to find a willing partner when Bourque became available in a crappy contract for a crappy contract deal. That and Beauch and Fistric were getting healthier.

 

[Static]

The argument was that Manson is better than Lovejoy right and that simply isn't true. Could he overtake Lovejoy at some point this season? Maybe but that means Lovejoy has fallen off a cliff. We're all simply really excited about this kid because NO ONE expected him to be playing with us already let alone the level at which he's playing.

But the fact of the matter is, and apparently you agree with me, is Manson will go back to Norfolk when Lovejoy is healthy. Judging by the way d-men keep going down I'm sure we'll see him again. He could eventually play someone out of a job but those veterans have to lose their job too. Lovejoy being out doesn't diminish his place with this team despite how excited we all are with this kid.

That wasn't the arguement, you just made it so. What I said was Manson at the highest level he was playing brought more to the table than Lovejoy. That doesnt mean he is better.

 

[TheJoeMan]

That wasn't the arguement, you just made it so. What I said was Manson at the highest level he was playing brought more to the table than Lovejoy. That doesnt mean he is better.

It doesn't? Then why does that matter? Thompson has the best beard on the team but that doesn't make him better because of it is basically along the same lines of what you're saying. If he's not better than Lovejoy who cares if he "brings" more than him? Which he doesn't by the way. Skating, hitting, passing, all inferior and Lovejoy brings some offense whereas Manson has yet to show he has that in his game. What gets me about this argument is it's making me nitpick Manson when I really like this kid. He's just being blown way out of proportion right now.

 

[camshaft]

It doesn't? Then why does that matter? Thompson has the best beard on the team but that doesn't make him better because of it is basically along the same lines of what you're saying. If he's not better than Lovejoy who cares if he "brings" more than him? Which he doesn't by the way. Skating, hitting, passing, all inferior and Lovejoy brings some offense whereas Manson has yet to show he has that in his game. What gets me about this argument is it's making me nitpick Manson when I really like this kid. He's just being blown way out of proportion right now.

I think both of your positions are not as far apart as it appears, and the argument has become personal. I think both of you feel that Lovejoy is the better proven player right now, but Manson has the far greater upside if he continues to develop. Even though Manson hasn't scored yet, there have been a number of times where he was dangerous and just missed picking the top corner of the net. Manson is a much more offense minded than Lovejoy, who prefers to make the safe play. If Manson continues to improve, our youthful defense will be amongst the league best over the next five to seven years.

 

[Duck Off]

I think both of your positions are not as far apart as it appears, and the argument has become personal. I think both of you feel that Lovejoy is the better proven player right now, but Manson has the far greater upside if he continues to develop. Even though Manson hasn't scored yet, there have been a number of times where he was dangerous and just missed picking the top corner of the net. Manson is a much more offense minded than Lovejoy, who prefers to make the safe play. If Manson continues to improve, our youthful defense will be amongst the league best over the next five to seven years.

I agree.

I think it's premature to say Manson is the better player, but I've been waiting for a while for Fowler and him to be a pair. It's only been one game, but it was impressive. Manson definitely has the higher ceiling, but he makes the rookies mistakes still. Vancouver made him look silly all game. Lovejoy while limited, is consistent.

 

[Lupul1990]

http://prospects.dobbersports.com/Prospects-Rambling/rossy-s-prospect-ramblings

I sat in the Windsor Spitfires scouts’ room last week prepping my notes for the Sarnia Sting game and just happened to hear a couple of Anaheim Ducks’ scouts talking about an outstanding game #42 had play. “Yup, he’s ready to play in the NHL” said the one scout. After quick research, I came to realize they were speaking about Josh Manson, Anaheim’s 6th round selection from the 2011 draft. Manson is the son of former NHLer Dave Mason and began his season with the Norfolk Admirals (AHL), where he was expected to spend the season. However, on October 31st the Ducks quickly changed their plans and he’s been up with the big club ever since. The former Captain of Northwestern University, Josh isn’t quite as nasty as his father was but he is a 6-foot-3 physical defenseman who won’t be easy to win battles against. From a fantasy hockey standpoint, his value lies in the peripheral categories for now but with him earning over 20 minutes per night, he’s bound to add a few points here and there.
Mason is way ahead of schedule for the Ducks

 

[Duck Off]

http://prospects.dobbersports.com/Prospects-Rambling/rossy-s-prospect-ramblings

great find. Our scouts continue to amaze.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

as much as i believe he deserves to stay in the lineup.....there is no way this team is going to play 4 20-23 year old defensemen in the playoffs.

then again BB has shown he is not afraid to put young players in important spots, i just don't know how you could play fistric or stoner before him, if you are strictly going by how they are playing

 

[Dirk316]

as much as i believe he deserves to stay in the lineup.....there is no way this team is going to play 4 20-23 year old defensemen in the playoffs.

then again BB has shown he is not afraid to put young players in important spots, i just don't know how you could play fistric or stoner before him, if you are strictly going by how they are playing

Stoner with the exception of 2 games he played while sick has been great and by far the most physical crease clearing dman on this team. It was evidenced by the fact he was used in the closing seconds of games they were protecting a lead or the pk.
Stop trying to be duck2go

 

[KelVarnsen]

I kind of agree with Dirk on this one. I think Stoner has been good and he does bring the physicality the rest of our defense does not. I dont want him on the top pair but playing third pair with Vats is a good place for him.

 

[AngelDuck]

regarding Stoner vs manson...I don't think it's one or the other. BM played Stoner big money to play the left side on the 3rd pair. That's going to be his spot.

Manson's opportunity will be to beat out Lovejoy for a spot in the top 4. Based on what we've seen, he has a very solid chance to do that before the end of the year.

 

[camshaft]

as much as i believe he deserves to stay in the lineup.....there is no way this team is going to play 4 20-23 year old defensemen in the playoffs.

then again BB has shown he is not afraid to put young players in important spots, i just don't know how you could play fistric or stoner before him, if you are strictly going by how they are playing

By the time of the playoffs, Fowler will have completed his fifth full year as a top four d-man, and even though he is only twenty-three years old, you would have to consider him a grizzly veteran. As AngelDuck says, Manson has the regular season to beat out Lovejoy for a top four spot on our defensive core.

 

[Ducks DVM]

I don't think it would be Manson playing his way onto the top pairing as much as it would be Lovejoy playing his way off of it. I think that while Manson is playing well, he still makes a fair number of rookie mistakes, and IMO Fowler isn't nearly as dynamic playing with him as he's been with Lovejoy.

 

[DaDucks*]

I don't think it would be Manson playing his way onto the top pairing as much as it would be Lovejoy playing his way off of it. I think that while Manson is playing well, he still makes a fair number of rookie mistakes, and IMO Fowler isn't nearly as dynamic playing with him as he's been with Lovejoy.

Has Fowler been dynamic this season?
Some believe he is still hurt. Your suggestion of Manson being the reason to Cam's overall performance is noted.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Has Fowler been dynamic this season?
Some believe he is still hurt. Your suggestion of Manson being the reason to Cam's overall performance is noted.

He was fantastic in preseason before getting injured, yes. He has been more dynamic in previous years when paired with Lovejoy, yes. He was becoming much more offensively active before he was paired with Manson, yes. Your ability to completely misrepresent a statement is noted.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

I don't think it would be Manson playing his way onto the top pairing as much as it would be Lovejoy playing his way off of it. I think that while Manson is playing well, he still makes a fair number of rookie mistakes, and IMO Fowler isn't nearly as dynamic playing with him as he's been with Lovejoy.

manson makes rookie mistakes....stoner just makes mistakes

 

[DaDucks*]

He was fantastic in preseason before getting injured, yes. He has been more dynamic in previous years when paired with Lovejoy, yes. He was becoming much more offensively active before he was paired with Manson, yes. Your ability to completely misrepresent a statement is noted.

I'm not drawing any conclusions or judging and comments regarding Fowler.(subjected to change) I was looking for you to expand on your thought provided of what "others" have thought. Thank you for the information, your Fowler profile has been updated.

 

[Ducks DVM]

I'm not drawing any conclusions or judging and comments regarding Fowler.(subject to change) I was looking for you to expand on your thought provided of what "others" have thought. Thank you for the information, your Fowler profile has been updated.

I meant exactly what I said. Fowler has been less dynamic since being paired with him. Just as Lindholm has been less dynamic since being paired with his babysitting assignment. Anything else you infer out of that, including the degree of change, says more about your opinions than mine.

 

[Ducks DVM]

manson makes rookie mistakes....stoner just makes mistakes

True enough. Stoner knows his limits though, so the mistakes are more predictable. Manson doesn't (and to be fair those limits won't set in stone(r) for several years - he should be getting better and more consistent as time passes) which means there's a lot more variability to what his partner has to expect. I'm certainly not saying I want Stoner on the top pairing, I'm just saying that it's easier to adjust your game when you have a more certain idea of what your partner is going to do.