Post-Game Talk: Jets lose 5-2

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CaptainChef

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I have to suspect that it is because PMo has decided that Scheifele and Wheeler will play together. There will be no deviation.
Yep, Little and Wheels having always been a dynamite duo, as have Ehlers and Laine, but once again PMo steps in and inserts his logic. This team will never be much more than a .500 outfit as long as we have a coach that seems to think its more important to prove a point than to win games. Stubborn to a fault...., and that's just the start of his problems.
 
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Dayofthedogs

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Your right about Dano - they should get rid of him - trade him or something. A guy with his low level talent has no business taking penalties. Same goes for Enstrom - the guy is finished as far as I'm concerned, and to small for a D-Man.

I actually do believe in Dano as an NHL talent. I just think he holds himself back as much as anyone else. PoMo isn't the only coach who has had problems with his game

He needs to be better at the little things like not taking penalties if he's gonna find success.

Toby's play has mad me sad this year, highlighted by his turnover last night that led directly to the goal.
 

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Yep, Little and Wheels having always been a dynamite duo, as have Ehlers and Laine, but once again PMo steps in and inserts his logic. This team will never be much more than a .500 outfit as long as we have a coach that seems to think its more important to prove a point than to win games. Stubborn to a fault...., and that's just the start of his problems.

I'm resisting the urge to go all in on 'Moe must go'. It should take until about the 20th game, 25% of the season, give or take. But I think the upcoming 5 day break provides a natural decision point. With as bad as they have been so far I don't think it is unreasonable to expect a sharp adjustment and turnaround to take place over those 5 days.
 

antiqueslivers

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I also wonder if Carolina fans ever visit wpg forums and get a disorientating sense of de'ja'vu. Its chilling to read the old posts from Carolina during pomo's time there.
 

GNP

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Connor stays and Armia should move up to a top 6 spot for one game at least.

One game doesn't tell you much for Armia, as he needs time to adjust. How about moving him up to the top 6 for a minimum of 5 games, or maybe even 10 games ? He was a scorer in Junior, and has nice hands, and a good stick handler with the puck. I've always liked Joel Armia. It's time for Maurice to change - "or he'll be changed"
 
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surixon

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I just don't get it. I thought last year was the "learning year" as Maurice said and now these guys would come in and know their lanes, routes, etc. So what's going on? Why isn't more in sync when it comes to systems, PK, 5on5, etc. Was 82 games last year not enough? What about the training camp, 8 pre-season and 6 regular season games to date?

The org. apparently flipped the switch to a younger core after the 2014-15 playoff year, so here is a list of players that have been on this roster dating back to 2015-16 to today. 2 full years. 82-164+ games, practices, systems, PK/special teams work, 5on5, consistency, chemistry, etc.

Wheeler (170 games), Little (122 games), Scheifele (156 games), Perreault (141 games), Ehlers (160 games), Laine (79 games), Lowry (160 games), Copp (147 games), Armia (104 games), Dano (64 games), Petan (85 games), Tanev (60 games).

Byfuglien (165 games), Trouba (147 games), Enstrom (138 games), Morrissey (89 games), Myers (90 games), Chiarot (129 games).

Do the math, because something isn't right here. Unless these players are just stupid and cannot pick up on the systems being asked of them? If that is the case we are in deep trouble because Chevy and co. drafted, developed and implemented 3/4 of this very roster. Sorry, but when the bulk of your roster cannot play efficiently 5on5, the PK, lack chemistry and consistency, we're led to believe they are young, smart and promising players, and they've been together under the same coach for this amount of games, that's incredibly concerning.

And the real kicker for me is, is this isn't even close to the same roster Maurice inherited in 2013-14 for those 35 games. The players on the roster for Noel's firing include just six: Little, Wheeler, Scheifele (rookie yr), Byfuglien, Enstrom, Trouba (rookie yr). So I don't buy the argument of "this team has already gotten 1 coach fired (Noel), they shouldn't get another"... No, this isn't remotely close to that team that got Noel sacked. And the only players on the roster today that were present for the successful 2014-15 playoff year: Forwards x 5 - Wheeler, Little, Scheifele, Perreault, Lowry. Defense x 4 - Byfuglien, Trouba, Enstrom, Myers.

The fact of the matter for me is we have relied heavily on this very group now for 2 full years since management took it in a new/different direction, this is the third, why are they still looking lost out there? where's the chemistry? consistency? Where is the systems to run an efficient 5on5 play? Where is the systems to run an efficient PK?

We've had roster turnover. We've had a major injection of youth. We've had 2 full seasons with the bulk of the same roster after the playoff year and direction change. We went to a team led by Ladd - Little - Wheeler + Enstrom - Byfuglien to a team now boasting elite young talent in Ehlers - Scheifele - Laine + Morrissey - Trouba. We've had two full seasons worth of training camps, pre-seasons, practices, etc. We've changed asst. coaches.

Good post I don't get it Either.

I also don't buy the notion that we have a bunch of dumb players as the vast majority of the core have come from highly successful programs and the bulk of them have had a great deal of success elsewhere. It's just that once they get to the big team they seemingly forget how to play as a team.
 
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Rene Saari

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Where u red this?
If it is so, it's interesting... why? Jealousy? Afraid that Laine will come more popular among fans and the face of Jets?
It is either Maurice or Scheifele.
 

Peggy

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First game I watched this year
ugly game. Got no flow going.
Columbus kept control of the pace for most of it

This top 6/bottom 6 is getting really stale
 

surixon

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That's fair. I believe you bring some really interesting insight to the table when you post along with a lot of other people who have criticism of PoMo.

I do find some of the criticism valid. I also find some of the more in depth breakdowns of systems play and the like to be really interesting.

I suppose I get a little tired of the more bland "PoMo's systems are terrible, he has no idea what he's doing" 74 times in a GDT by people who have no idea what NHL level systems look like.

How many time did Holden or maybe it was Hank describe why Buff made the right play following his man to the blue line in the leafs game as the proper play when countless fans and the 1290 crew went on and on and on about PoMo's man defense.

Those explanations of systems are the stuff that really interests me because I can watch games and look for it. It's also great when people with the knowledge can break down different types of break outs and neutral zone play and provide examples of other teams that do different things than we do.
That's fair. I believe you bring some really interesting insight to the table when you post along with a lot of other people who have criticism of PoMo.

I do find some of the criticism valid. I also find some of the more in depth breakdowns of systems play and the like to be really interesting.

I suppose I get a little tired of the more bland "PoMo's systems are terrible, he has no idea what he's doing" 74 times in a GDT by people who have no idea what NHL level systems look like.

How many time did Holden or maybe it was Hank describe why Buff made the right play following his man to the blue line in the leafs game as the proper play when countless fans and the 1290 crew went on and on and on about PoMo's man defense.

Those explanations of systems are the stuff that really interests me because I can watch games and look for it. It's also great when people with the knowledge can break down different types of break outs and neutral zone play and provide examples of other teams that do different things than we do.

While I consider myself a Maurice critic I do try to understand why the team isn't getting it together. As I mentioned I actually like how the Moose have played, I like their system and execution at least 5 on 5. Given that the Jets and Moose run the same schemes you'd expect far more impressive results from us. But I don't see anything resembling that system in the NHL games so far.

It is puzzling to say the least.
 
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Peggy

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This depth the hf boards "bragged" about is looking no different than what Weve always had

Marko dano , petan, armia, Lowry, roslovic
Where they at?

I'm not content with this roster at all
Even with a new coach, some trades need to be made
Move buff For a forward
Possibly move Myers(with a forward) as well

The jets need a better 3rd line centre and they don't have that
 

Aavco Cup

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While I consider myself a Maurice critic I do try to understand why the team isn't getting it together. As I mentioned I actually like how the Moose have played, I like their system and execution at least 5 on 5. Given that the Jets and Moose run the same schemes you'd expect far more impressive results from us. But I don't see anything resembling that system in the NHL games so far.

It is puzzling to say the least.

The Moose core is buying in. The Jets core reverts to old habits and individual play when the going gets tough
 

CaptainChef

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The elephant in the room right now is that this team appears to have absolutely zero identity under Maurice. It's actually worse than it was in the Noel days in terms of being able to suss out what exactly this TEAM does well, what their calling card is stylistically. I'm not talking about the individual talent on the roster, I'm talking about what the sum of their parts does on a consistent basis.

To give some degree of credit to PauMau, he did transform the Jets into a heavy forechecking, physical, space-eating team that played to its size and speed, and dominated possession as a result. That philosophy was abandoned maybe a month or so into 2015-16 (too many penalties, I guess?) and other than a brief return to it last season in February, we haven't seen it since.

@surixon made a really good point earlier in this thread, in effect that the Jets and their veterans have probably been through a few too many different visions and explanations of what Maurice wants from them stylistically.

tl;dr is "fire Maurice", but I guess my point is that it goes beyond deployment and his irrational love for Tanev. We desperately need a coach with a real vision for what the contending version of this team looks like.
Great post Hank. This team absolutely has no identity, and what PMo is asking them to be is not at all based on what he has here for talent. So he keeps watering down what he has in "his" top 6 by mysterious combos (which he is too stubborn to change back to what worked before), and he is unwilling to let his talented guys do what got them here (or even to play in their strong positions).

Nope, everything seems to come down to modifying this group into what he perceives they need to be. That's why he has all those grinders & role players in the bottom 6. So after 6 games where we have been god-awful in 5 (and totally saved by the goalie in two of those), will he make any major adjustments. Not a chance.

Upper management has got to wake up soon before the boo-birds totally take over this place & the arena. How long can we go on with a talent base that 90% of the league would die for, and a coach (actually 3 coaches) that have no place in todays NHL.
 
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GNP

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This depth the hf boards "bragged" about is looking no different than what Weve always had

Marko dano , petan, armia, Lowry, roslovic
Where they at?

I'm not content with this roster at all
Even with a new coach, some trades need to be made
Move buff For a forward
Possibly move Myers(with a forward) as well

The jets need a better 3rd line centre and they don't have that

Not bad thinking Peggy - but I would move Myers and Dano for a good center ice man. I'd prefer to move Enstrom and Dano, but Enstrom has a "no move clause"
 

Gotaf7

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Connor sawed off the moose horns yesterday and hung them on his dads shed, he is a NHLer now.
 

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Still surprised at comments about Mason based on last night's game. Not sure people watched the game or just the highlights. 40 shots and he got hung out to dry a number of times. If Hellebuyck plays we lose maybe 4-1 or 3-1 if he gets lucky, but Mason made some saves that maybe Helle doesn't either under the circumstances.

I don't speculate on what Bucky might or might not have done if he had played. They were only down by a couple of goals heading into the last two minutes of the second. Then Sedlak banks in a softie from what should be a harmless position. Sure, Toby had a brain cramp but there is no need for that puck to go in. You give up a goal like that as the period is winding down, I can see the rest of the team going, f*** this, we're done for tonight. Did he make "great saves" as well? I don't know. I watched most of the game, or at least was listening to it as I made dinner. I don't recall any "holy shit, how did Mason keep that puck out of the net" moments from Beyak. Well, not that Beyak would say holy shit but you get my drift. Has our previous goaltending mediocrity turned good saves, expected saves into something more in our minds? I wonder.
 
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Grind

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I actually do believe in Dano as an NHL talent. I just think he holds himself back as much as anyone else. PoMo isn't the only coach who has had problems with his game

He needs to be better at the little things like not taking penalties if he's gonna find success.

Toby's play has mad me sad this year, highlighted by his turnover last night that led directly to the goal.
I hope you don't mean the goal they scored from below the goal line.

Granted that turnovers on Tony, but no one gives a shit if Mason doesn't somehow manage to expose himself and bank that in. That goals 100x more on Mason then toby.
 

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This depth the hf boards "bragged" about is looking no different than what Weve always had

Marko dano , petan, armia, Lowry, roslovic
Where they at?

I'm not content with this roster at all
Even with a new coach, some trades need to be made
Move buff For a forward
Possibly move Myers(with a forward) as well

The jets need a better 3rd line centre and they don't have that

Buff has NTC in place for a year so that's full stop.
Myers is going to get you what exactly? Based on last year's lengthy injury/other issues and this year's slow start maybe a bag of pucks.

There is the possibility that Roslovic is not quite ready for the big show yet but there's your interim 3rd line C. Lowry is serviceable in a bottom six role though not necessarily as viewed by Maurice. He's a good hockey player just shouldn't see the PP time he does - ideally good fourth line C. Armia was injured but yes, played poorly prior to last night, but perhaps he's coming out of it now and will be as he was last year when most on this board were happy with him. Dano and Petan I get your point on but I have to wonder if it's not usage as deemed by coaching that's holding them back. I doubt we'll ever figure that out.

As Whileee posted, something similar to

Laine Scheifele Ehlers
Connor Little Wheeler
Perreault Roslovic Armia
Copp Lowry Matthias

While it's vague, it seems whatever systems we are trying to employ don't fit the skillset of the players we are having out on the ice. They managed to do well as a team last year when coach let them "run" so the talent is there.
 
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Dayofthedogs

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[/QUOTE]
Ibhop

I hope you don't mean the goal they scored from below the goal line.

Granted that turnovers on Tony, but no one gives a **** if Mason doesn't somehow manage to expose himself and bank that in. That goals 100x more on Mason then toby.

You're right about the mason part. Toby just looked like the player a lot of people said he was (but wasn't) for the last 5 years there.

It's looked like he reay has lost a step this year. Hoping he turns it around and starts moving the puck up ice like I remember his doing.
 

Peggy

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Buff has NTC in place for a year so that's full stop.
Myers is going to get you what exactly? Based on last year's lengthy injury/other issues and this year's slow start maybe a bag of pucks.

There is the possibility that Roslovic is not quite ready for the big show yet but there's your interim 3rd line C. Lowry is serviceable in a bottom six role though not necessarily as viewed by Maurice. He's a good hockey player just shouldn't see the PP time he does - ideally good fourth line C. Armia was injured but yes, played poorly prior to last night, but perhaps he's coming out of it now and will be as he was last year when most on this board were happy with him. Dano and Petan I get your point on but I have to wonder if it's not usage as deemed by coaching that's holding them back. I doubt we'll ever figure that out.

As Whileee posted, something similar to

Laine Scheifele Ehlers
Connor Little Wheeler
Perreault Roslovic Armia
Copp Lowry Matthias

While it's vague, it seems whatever systems we are trying to employ don't fit the skillset of the players we are having out on the ice. They managed to do well as a team last year when coach let them "run" so the talent is there.

Doesn't matter. Buff needs to be moved when possible
Myers gets to play til trade dead line if he stays mediocre
You package him with something
We need different pieces and it starts with coaching
Don't think this is a Stanley cup team even with a new coach

But things need to change which they haven't much
 

Eyeseeing

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I actually do believe in Dano as an NHL talent. I just think he holds himself back as much as anyone else. PoMo isn't the only coach who has had problems with his game

He needs to be better at the little things like not taking penalties if he's gonna find success.

Toby's play has mad me sad this year, highlighted by his turnover last night that led directly to the goal.

Dano & Byfulglien & Perrault to name just a few are needing to be better at these little things called penalties.
 
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