Post-Game Talk: Jets lose 5-2

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Eyeseeing

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Funny how many of us knew Maurice was going to be the weak link.
I posted preseason that a slow start was going to be troubling and it’s happening.
Well our record is 3-3 it flatters the on ice performance so far.
My biggest fear is yet another season frittered away and we get relegated to 84 points yet again.
Maurice has no answers and some of the vets are playing very uninspired hockey.
What a waste of a talented roster.
How long before the boo birds are out in full force ?
There was some in the building but not yet wide spread.
TNSE truly made a boo boo on these coaches.
 

Dayofthedogs

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I've given him two years. Try to find me complaining incessantly about coaching prior to this year - won't happen. I'm not happy with what I'm seeing on ice, and I do not believe it's due to the roster at this point. Calling it an echo chamber (or blaming it on group think) is unfairly labeling and devaluing the opinions of individuals, IMO. You can't accurately describe how those opinions have been formed.

If you really don't like hearing about coaching discussions, then either ignore it, or put people on ignore. Nothing I've read in this GDT to this point breaks any site rules.

You're right. I don't believe you have been overly critical of PoMo in the past. I also think you bring a lot o the table in terms of discussion

My post did not quote a specific poster just a sentiment I have about the GDT and pretty much every thread here at the moment.

I generalized wit the echo chamber comment and if you can't distinguish yourself from the group I'm referring to that's on you. I don't mean to be rude. There are lots of posters here that I disagree with on a variety of topics that I find insightful and interesting when it comes to their evaluations whether I agree or not.

My post was generally framed as a response to a post in the GDT that asked how anyone could still defend "this."

I love hearing coaching discussions when it's an actual discussion. I think I've shown to be fairly reasonable and I also think my opinion is changeable often times when I enter into these discussions. I don't just fire shots and duck my head when someone has something to say in return.

Frankly, I'm not sure why the standard response here is "if you don't like it just hit ignore." I also don't believe Ive broke any rules and was making a generalized statement as to why I defend PoMo when in truth I try to defend against "bad" or uninformed narratives. Do I get it right all the time? No, but I enjoy the discussions for the most part. Emphasis on discussion.
 
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Whileee

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Lowry has been a solid 3C. There's more to the game than scoring points.
Jets looked badly overmatched physically without Lowry. They also were unable to break up the Jackets cycle in the D zone. Lowry helps in both those areas.

Was really disappointed with Copp at C yesterday. I think he is much better on the wing. Jets need to seriously consider how to work Roslovic into the lineup. He's very quick and smart at C.

Connor-Scheifele-Wheeler
Ehlers-Little-Laine
Perreault-Roslovic-Armia
Copp-Lowry-Dano / Petan

Jets need to stop worrying about waiver eligibility and get their best line-up on the ice ASAP. Trade the players that you need to, or let them go (e.g. Matthias, Tanev, Dano/Petan).
 
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GNP

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My impression of Maurice after 287 games over near 4 years, is that he tries to make the players fit his vision rather than fitting his vision to his players. Obviously one sentence can't fully describe a complex person and there is some variation within that but I think the bottom line is pretty close to that.

Last year he largely let them go - he has said as much himself. This year he is trying to get them to play defensively. They are failing at that and at the same time losing their offense. Maybe it comes around in a few more games - or maybe it never does.

Through 6 games, they have been bad and worse. They sure don't look like a well coached team. They don't look like a talented team either. I hope this is just growing pains ...... looks like bad coaching to my inexpert eye.

I more game and then they get a 5 day practice break. If PMo can't turn it around over that break then I don't think he is the coach this team needs. A 5 day break in the sched would be a good time for a new coach to take over. That isn't going to happen though.


Really good post here Mort, and I totally agree with what you say !!!
 

GNP

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Jets looked badly overmatched physically without Lowry. They also were unable to break up the Jackets cycle in the D zone. Lowry helps in both those areas.

Was really disappointed with Copp at C yesterday. I think he is much better on the wing. Jets need to seriously consider how to work Roslovic into the lineup. He's very quick and smart at C.

Connor-Scheifele-Wheeler
Ehlers-Little-Laine
Perreault-Roslovic-Armia
Copp-Lowry-Dano / Petan

Jets need to stop worrying about waiver eligibility and get their best line-up on the ice ASAP. Trade the players that you need to, or let them go (e.g. Matthias, Tanev, Dano/Petan).

There are 2 guys that the Jets should be using, that are good- Armia, and Connor ( he should be up to stay) Why have they not been using these guys ???
 

Joe Hallenback

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A well coached team is a team that follows what the coach wants them to do

If we get say Daryl Sutter as a coach, half you will hate him because he is going to change or try to change some of these guys and by that is less taking chances and more tightening up. Less wheeling and more cycling. More contact and less gliding.

The 2014/15 Jets were that team and people kind of hated that team because they weren't pretty

CBus wasn't pretty last night, they just forechecked in the right positions and played there zones to a tee in the defensive zones. They didn't watch the play and they certainly didn't miss the chance to pressure and check.

They don't have superstars but they do have stars playing like foot soldiers. When the need arises to take the chance they did but they didn't try to push the chance so that it caused a mistake. There goalie didn't need to be great or good just average. That is how you win in the NHL.
 

nobody important

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It's not how you start the season.....it's how you finish it.

Back to my earlier point that all games matter, how you start the season may well decide how you finish the season. As in, watching the playoffs instead of participating.

Edit: I see cbcwpg beat me to this. Well, great minds, as they say. :nod:
 
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Aavco Cup

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A well coached team is a team that follows what the coach wants them to do

If we get say Daryl Sutter as a coach, half you will hate him because he is going to change or try to change some of these guys and by that is less taking chances and more tightening up. Less wheeling and more cycling. More contact and less gliding.

The 2014/15 Jets were that team and people kind of hated that team because they weren't pretty

CBus wasn't pretty last night, they just forechecked in the right positions and played there zones to a tee in the defensive zones. They didn't watch the play and they certainly didn't miss the chance to pressure and check.

They don't have superstars but they do have stars playing like foot soldiers. When the need arises to take the chance they did but they didn't try to push the chance so that it caused a mistake. There goalie didn't need to be great or good just average. That is how you win in the NHL.

They won the game in the neutral zone and in our zone by really affecting our breakout. Once the Jets gained the Ozone we actually did good things there and had some decent scoring chances. But many shifts the Jets didn't see that ice at all.
 

Aavco Cup

"I can make you cry in this room"
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Back to my earlier point that all games matter, how you start the season may well decide how you finish the season. As in, watching the playoffs instead of participating.

I don't disagree but I was referring to how a team performs once the playoffs start. How a playoff team played in a single game in October has zero relevance to playoff success or failure
 

nobody important

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Funny how many of us knew Maurice was going to be the weak link.
I posted preseason that a slow start was going to be troubling and it’s happening.
Well our record is 3-3 it flatters the on ice performance so far.
My biggest fear is yet another season frittered away and we get relegated to 84 points yet again.
Maurice has no answers and some of the vets are playing very uninspired hockey.
What a waste of a talented roster.
How long before the boo birds are out in full force ?
There was some in the building but not yet wide spread.
TNSE truly made a boo boo on these coaches.

I'm the sort of person who will never boo out loud, but I'm glad there are those who will.
 

Dayofthedogs

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As for the game itself.

Connor played inspired and reminded me of MP with his forecheck. I wonder if any other moose players want to outclass some of the other guys on our roster right now.

Armia finally looks back up to speed after his injury. I suspect he will be back to 3rd line minutes.

Petan did some good things and some bad things. Not sure PoMo will be happy with his fancy plays in the Ozone when PoMo said he wanted meat and potatoes, put pucks to the net kind of play.

Dano. You're not good enough to get away with the penalties you keep taking. You're slowly sinking yourself on your 3rd team.

Wheeler. I have to believe he is playing hurt, his game never looks like this unless he is hurt. With the soft schedule I think he might be better off taking the next 2 off to rest whatever ails him.

Myers keeps making me wish we exposed him in the XD. Frankly, I'd sit him in favor of Poolman.

Trouba. Not the Trouba I remember from last year. Kinda looks like he's trying to stats pad in a contract year. He needs lessons from Poolman on how to get his shot through. His shot selection is bothering me.

Score would have been 3-2 had it not been for those 2 softies and I don't really think mason was the reason it was even close in the first 2 periods. He flat out hasn't looked good so far this year team D or not.
 
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buggs

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There are 2 guys that the Jets should be using, that are good- Armia, and Connor ( he should be up to stay) Why have they not been using these guys ???
At this point, based solely on last night's game I agree Connor should stay up. But then philosophically I never thought he should have been sent down, largely because I don't see a top 6 bottom 6 approach working through the league. Many teams even have weird expectations of some supplementary scoring from their fourth line. Odd that. But that said, Connor has the talent and skill but I think he will struggle with the strength of the league's players this year. His skill could overcome it, but he'll lose puck battles often.

Armia I think that's a little generous on. He did play well last night but it's really the first game I think he's played well this season, hopefully more to come from that. I think he's ideally suited to a third line role as Whileee has him listed.

Still surprised at comments about Mason based on last night's game. Not sure people watched the game or just the highlights. 40 shots and he got hung out to dry a number of times. If Hellebuyck plays we lose maybe 4-1 or 3-1 if he gets lucky, but Mason made some saves that maybe Helle doesn't either under the circumstances. I really like Helle's play this year so far but you can't play him 82 games (i guess technically 80 since Mason got the first two starts) as he won't survive it. We need to use our backup and at home when the other team is starting their backup is as good a place as any, unless you'd prefer Mason be started against Pittsburgh or Minnesota (maybe not bad given how bad they are banged up). The D, notably Myers (twice) and Enstrom (once) completely hung out Mason to dry. He's no Vezina winner at this point obviously but give the guy a fair shake. (and yes, 5th goal was entirely on Mason)

The Jets simply did not play as a team last night. No universal level of play, unlike Columbus, just some good individuals. I don't know if that's a lack of system buy in or what the problem is but there's talent on our side of the ice. Something else is lacking.
 
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Huffer

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Jul 16, 2010
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Some really good comments here so far.

The first thing that stood out to me last night was watching how deep we let Columbus penetrate our zone without any pressure. Whether by design, or just poor gap control, it seemed like time after time not only would the Jackets easily gain the zone, but our D would back right in on Mason before even pressuring the puck.

And once in our zone the same 2 issues seem to plague us over and over. 1) Maintaining structure (multiple cross ice passes to open Jackets with no coverage, 2 Jackets in on Mason, etc), and 2) no real semblance of a co-ordinated breakout.
 
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Joe Hallenback

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They won the game in the neutral zone and in our zone by really affecting our breakout. Once the Jets gained the Ozone we actually did good things there and had some decent scoring chances. But many shifts the Jets didn't see that ice at all.

You can skate fast but if don't do anything it doesn't mean anything. CBus was effective because they played that pressure system perfectly. So many times the Jets would carry in the Neutral zone and the Dman would pressure at the red line, he could do this because there was always a forward pressuring with support across the middle. If the Jet forward makes it around the D the forward was there, if the Jet forward dumped it in the other D retrieved it and made a quick pass to either the center or the winger who were both back and both were in good positions. Even when the Jets had position deep CBus never panicked and never got out of position, they never stood and watched the play. The one time they did watch the play and the Jets cycled, Connor scored.

It aggravates me that when you look at the talent of the forwards last night I think on paper we have the better forwards but they clearly are the better players. They are also an extremely young team who has totally bought into what a guy like Torterella is saying.

Bring on Sutter, Ill take tight high pressure forchecking hockey over this shit show
 
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GNP

Here Comes the Jets -look out hockey world !!!
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As for the game itself.

Connor played inspired and reminded me of MP with his forecheck. I wonder if any other moose players want to outclass some of the other guys on our roster right now.

Armia finally looks back up to speed after his injury. I suspect he will be back to 3rd line minutes.

Petan did some good things and some bad things. Not sure PoMo will be happy with his fancy plays in the Ozone when PoMo said he wanted meat and potatoes, put pucks to the net kind of play.

Dano. You're not good enough to get away with the penalties you keep taking. You're slowly sinking yourself on your 3rd team.

Wheeler. I have to believe he is playing hurt, his game never looks like this unless he is hurt. With the soft schedule I think he might be better off taking the next 2 off to rest whatever ails him.

Myers keeps making me wish we exposed him in the XD. Frankly, I'd sit him in favor of Poolman.

Trouba. Not the Trouba I remember from last year. Kinda looks like he's trying to stats pad in a contract year. He needs lessons from Poolman on how to get his shot through. His shot selection is bothering me.

Score would have been 3-2 had it not been for those 2 softies and I don't really think mason was the reason it was even close in the first 2 periods. He flat out hasn't looked good so far this year team D or not.


Your right about Dano - they should get rid of him - trade him or something. A guy with his low level talent has no business taking penalties. Same goes for Enstrom - the guy is finished as far as I'm concerned, and to small for a D-Man.
 

CaptainChef

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Agreed. The big trade honestly at the end of the day, was much ado about nothing. Kane and Bogo NEEDED to go, so really that's the only reason this will always be a Win for the jets probably. Unless Roslo turns into something special, this is all meh.
Can't believe there are still those who wonder about that trade. Myers in spite of all his warts in some games, is still considerably better than Bogo right now. Kane is nothing but problems for the most part -- he's playing well right now, but its just a matter of time before his next "incident". So we're left with Armia & Roslovik versus Kane (on an expiring contract). Its been a win, short-term, mid-term & long-term.
 

Guerzy

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I'm not too concerned with the micro stuff like usage right now. I'm concerned with the Macro stuff. What is the road map on how to be good. What are the teams shared values and the goals on how to be successful. I've said before that there appears to be some divergent views in the room which is leading to the team not being in sync. Heck Moe even said the players didn't play the way He wanted them to last night which tells me that their is resistance to his plan in room. Something needs to give As this team is largely spinning it's wheels.

I just don't get it. I thought last year was the "learning year" as Maurice said and now these guys would come in and know their lanes, routes, etc. So what's going on? Why isn't more in sync when it comes to systems, PK, 5on5, etc. Was 82 games last year not enough? What about the training camp, 8 pre-season and 6 regular season games to date?

The org. apparently flipped the switch to a younger core after the 2014-15 playoff year, so here is a list of players that have been on this roster dating back to 2015-16 to today. 2 full years. 82-164+ games, practices, systems, PK/special teams work, 5on5, consistency, chemistry, etc.

Wheeler (170 games), Little (122 games), Scheifele (156 games), Perreault (141 games), Ehlers (160 games), Laine (79 games), Lowry (160 games), Copp (147 games), Armia (104 games), Dano (64 games), Petan (85 games), Tanev (60 games).

Byfuglien (165 games), Trouba (147 games), Enstrom (138 games), Morrissey (89 games), Myers (90 games), Chiarot (129 games).

Do the math, because something isn't right here. Unless these players are just stupid and cannot pick up on the systems being asked of them? If that is the case we are in deep trouble because Chevy and co. drafted, developed and implemented 3/4 of this very roster. Sorry, but when the bulk of your roster cannot play efficiently 5on5, the PK, lack chemistry and consistency, we're led to believe they are young, smart and promising players, and they've been together under the same coach for this amount of games, that's incredibly concerning.

And the real kicker for me is, is this isn't even close to the same roster Maurice inherited in 2013-14 for those 35 games. The players on the roster for Noel's firing include just six: Little, Wheeler, Scheifele (rookie yr), Byfuglien, Enstrom, Trouba (rookie yr). So I don't buy the argument of "this team has already gotten 1 coach fired (Noel), they shouldn't get another"... No, this isn't remotely close to that team that got Noel sacked. And the only players on the roster today that were present for the successful 2014-15 playoff year: Forwards x 5 - Wheeler, Little, Scheifele, Perreault, Lowry. Defense x 4 - Byfuglien, Trouba, Enstrom, Myers.

The fact of the matter for me is we have relied heavily on this very group now for 2 full years since management took it in a new/different direction, this is the third, why are they still looking lost out there? where's the chemistry? consistency? Where is the systems to run efficient 5on5 play? Where is the systems to run an efficient PK?

We've had roster turnover. We've had a major injection of youth. We've had 2 full seasons with the bulk of the same roster after the playoff year and direction change. We went from a team led by Ladd - Little - Wheeler + Enstrom - Byfuglien to a team now boasting elite young talent in Ehlers - Scheifele - Laine + Morrissey - Trouba. We've had two full seasons worth of training camps, pre-seasons, practices, etc. We've changed asst. coaches, hired a sports psychiatrist, etc. The list goes on.
 
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Weird. Three blowout losses for Mason, yet I can't really blame him solely for those losses. Much like the Calgary game, he made some really good saves and was solid, until the flood gates opened. Very disheartening. I hope he is able to regain his confidence after these.
 
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Mortimer Snerd

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It's probably an unfounded rumour but even if it's not at some point the line blender will spit out one of those combinations eventually if it's deemed necessary

Pretty clearly necessary - may not yet be deemed so.

Once the blender starts will it stop when it hits on a good combination? Or just keep blending?

Why is the inevitability of line changes deemed to be an excuse for having bad/dysfunctional lines at any given time?

Regardless, there is more wrong with this team right now than could be fixed by tinkering with the lines.
 

nobody important

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I don't disagree but I was referring to how a team performs once the playoffs start. How a playoff team played in a single game in October has zero relevance to playoff success or failure

Sorry for misinterpreting. Frankly, what I see from this team on a regular basis (not just this year) gives me little hope that they can be competitive in the playoffs. This jet has a bad cockpit crew, some passengers, and even a few armed hijackers who are determined to send it off course. :laugh:
 

Dayofthedogs

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Also, I know this is blasphemy and I have no real logical reason for this but... When Kulikov comes back I'd almost rather try a Chariot-Poolman bottom pairing and sit Toby and Myers for a couple games to see what happens with a top 4 of JoMo-Troub and Kuli-Buff.

I know this is stupid but frankly I'm at the. Sit Wheeler to heal and get Roslo up for Copp (who's been horrible at C in my opinion). Put Lemieux in for Matthias at this point and Lipon in for Dano.

I'd like to see a big player shakeup here. If that fails by the 20 game mark to get some better hockey PoMo and Huddy should probably be looking for new jobs.
 
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Guerzy

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Why do I get the feeling they come out hard against the Wild on friday and win

I expect an "angry" game

You's scare me. Why? because these are the posts I used to make back in Maurice's second tenure with the Canes. Buckle up and enjoy the ride. We're going to have our good nights and bad. We're going to string 5-8 nice games together followed by 5 "wtf" games and we'll be asking where that good team went that looked to be going on a run, turning a corner.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

This is deja vu for me. I feel like I am literally re-living Carolina/Maurice 2009-11.
 
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