Prospect Info: Ives 2021 Draft Final Rankings, Top 96 (3 Rounds)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Captain3rdLine

Registered User
Sep 24, 2020
6,765
7,979
I cant take anything serious from a guy whos 'scouts' (which btw do people even understand what constitutes a scout? Half of them are at-home accountants by day) had Kakko and Jack split down the middle on votes, while Power is unanimous in the most wide open draft weve ever seen.

Its 100% storyline
Kakko was really good leading up to the draft and there was people who actually felt he was the better choice. His scouts aren’t “his”. They’re actual NHL scouts who he surveys. Basically all you’ve said is you can’t take his rankings seriously because you don’t agree with some of it.

How is that even a storyline? Having the guy who’s expected to go 1st by the majority of people as the consensus #1. At the end of the day his rankings are usually the closest to what actually happens.
 

My3Sons

Nobody told me there'd be days like these...
Sponsor
youth hockey programs would be wise to focus on developing prospects' off ice behavior as well. they're going to be under a more intense microscope as time goes on, and all the hard physical work they put in can all be for nothing because of the stupid decisions teenagers make.

Where were his parents? Did they not ever cover this sort of stuff with him? This is basic human decency. "Son, don't take compromising pictures of your dates. It's rude, immoral, and illegal. You should treat your intimate relationships with respect and kindness."
 

MartyOwns

thank you shero
Apr 1, 2007
24,220
18,047
Where were his parents? Did they not ever cover this sort of stuff with him? This is basic human decency. "Son, don't take compromising pictures of your dates. It's rude, immoral, and illegal. You should treat your intimate relationships with respect and kindness."

i blame marilyn manson
 
  • Like
Reactions: StevenToddIves

Forge

Blissfully Mediocre
Jul 4, 2018
11,726
13,766
Vegas
I cant take anything serious from a guy whos 'scouts' (which btw do people even understand what constitutes a scout? Half of them are at-home accountants by day) had Kakko and Jack split down the middle on votes, while Power is unanimous in the most wide open draft weve ever seen.

Its 100% storyline

So basically, you can't take it seriously because you don't agree with it? KK had a fantastic draft season, playing in a men's league with good size and setting the record for goals scored by a draft eligible while also performing very well in tournaments from what I can remember.

You know that these are NHL scouts that are employed by NHL teams, right? He's not asking Corey Pronman and Scott Wheeler here.

Also...why would the fact that he's unanimous be the story line they want to have? I'm confused by that stance. Wouldn't you want to create an air of mystery? Have there be some doubt? Wouldn't they rather have some of these guys do have Eklund rated #1, maybe Buffalo really will pass over Power for Eklund! You think that they want to hear, "yeah, everyone says it's power".

The lead up to the NFL draft was boring for the first two picks this year. Why? Because everyone knew who was going to be picked. TL #1, Wilson #2. That's why there was so much focus on the 49ers at #3 because that's where the storylines started because it was an unknown.
 
Last edited:

RememberTheName

Conductor of the Schmid Bandwagon
Jan 5, 2016
7,385
5,137
On Earth
Teenagers inherently fail to realize the consequences of their actions. They think of what their actions can provide for them now rather than the harmful effects they will have not only on themselves but on other people involved in their actions in the future. The present-day teenage culture is ravaged by this failure to recognize long-term consequences, especially amongst guys.

Nude-culture (I guess you can call it) is at probably its highest point ever amongst high schoolers. People fail to recognize that if they are caught in possession of that kind of stuff, they can go to jail and have major criminal consequences (I am not sure entirely what NJ law is on this because high schools SUCK at recognizing that this is a problem and explaining this to teens). Girls send revealing photos, guys save them, sometimes vice versa but not usually. Sometimes, girls are okay with the guy having the photo, most of the time they would prefer not. Either way, that photo is going to be seen by more than just one person, whether it is sent in a group chat or just shown to someone in person. Some people, like Mailloux, take it a little farther and take pictures in the act as a trophy to show off to his new teammates (that's really what a lot of this is about for some people, they think that having pictures like this will help increase their social standing and get more popular and accepted and stupid shit like that). I know asses who have stuff like this on their phones. I know way more completely normal, unassuming people who have this on their phones. I know people who have had their nude photos spread, and I have never seen one of them do anything about it until the Mailloux case because of a fear of more people (like their parents) knowing about it even though there is a crime quite literally being committed against them. Because of this, this culture will continue being perpetuated until more people like Mailloux get called out for it.

35% (maybe slightly more) of high school guys have probably had shit like this on their phone at some point, whether they got it themselves or from a friend sending it to them. I am not excusing any of them, I am simply pointing out a number based on my relatively recent experience in high school. I lived through this type of shit going on. No matter whether the person who had the pics was a complete shithead or an unassuming nice kid caught up in a shitty culture, the one thing they have in common is a failure to recognize the consequences of having this. Once these consequences are realized, people delete it off their phones and mature enough to understand how wrong what they did was and how lucky they are for not being caught. Some people realize relatively quickly, for some others, though, it takes a while to get it through their head, and some just never realize.

I have a different perspective than most people on this given that I am probably the youngest person on this board right now. I saw this culture happening around me and seemingly unassuming people falling victim to it left and right. Is Mailloux an ass? Maybe, but probably not. He just did a really stupid f***ing thing without using his brain and understanding the scope of his actions. So he absolutely deserves punishment. He should not get special treatment because of his standing as a hockey player, and from everything I have read, he seems to recognize that. He is cooperating with the family harmed, his team, other NHL teams, and the police. He let his story go public a week before the draft even though he didn't have to, turning nearly the entire hockey world against him, and I respect his decision to do that. His psych evaluation came back with seemingly positive results. Unlike a guy like Mitch Miller who couldn't even apologize to the kid he viciously bullied, Mailloux seems to be at least trying to cooperate with the family to make things somewhat right. And I guess the Mitch Miller case stands out to me a bit more because I have never heard of bullying ever get close to that bad in my school and in the neighboring schools that I knew kids at, whereas Mailloux's incident I see way too much of.

It's up to NHL teams to decide whether or not they want to draft him. I see why they wouldn't with the bad press they might get. I would not have drafted Mitch Miller last year. He seems like he might be a psychopath. I don't know if Mailloux is the ass or if he is the unassuming kid who didn't realize the consequences his actions might have. From what I have read about this incident, his psych evaluation, and my experience, he seems like a kid caught up trying to impress his new teammates and trying to fit in that he didn't recognize how wrong what he was doing was. He seems to show a willingness to learn and improve himself from this incident. I would give him a 2nd chance and draft him still so long as he interviews very well, but I would understand the hesitancy for some people.
 
  • Like
Reactions: StevenToddIves

PKs Broken Stick

Registered User
Oct 9, 2008
8,942
4,443
So basically, you can't take it seriously because you don't agree with it? KK had a fantastic draft season, playing in a men's league with good size and setting the record for goals scored by a draft eligible while also performing very well in tournaments from what I can remember.

You know that these are NHL scouts that are employed by NHL teams, right? He's not asking Corey Pronman and Scott Wheeler here.

Also...why would the fact that he's unanimous be the story line they want to have? I'm confused by that stance. Wouldn't you want to create an air of mystery? Have there be some doubt? Wouldn't they rather have some of these guys do have Eklund rated #1, maybe Buffalo really will pass over Power for Eklund! You think that they want to hear, "yeah, everyone says it's power".

The lead up to the NFL draft was boring for the first two picks this year. Why? Because everyone knew who was going to be picked. TL #1, Wilson #2. That's why there was so much focus on the 49ers at #3 because that's where the storylines started because it was an unknown.

I mean this is exactly why I don't follow the hype from "scouts". Sure they may be professionals but they are human and get things wrong. Also it's more fun to do your own research and have your own opinions, but I guess it's easier for some people to just say "this is the scout consensus".
 

Forge

Blissfully Mediocre
Jul 4, 2018
11,726
13,766
Vegas
I mean this is exactly why I don't follow the hype from "scouts". Sure they may be professionals but they are human and get things wrong. Also it's more fun to do your own research and have your own opinions, but I guess it's easier for some people to just say "this is the scout consensus".

But it's just a poll. It's not even hype, it's just informational. It's a poll of people in the industry that from what I understand tends to be fairly accurate (full disclosure, I haven't gone through previous rankings to see how the picks fell to validate its accuracy overall...I just know it has that repuation) of how the league may view the prospects coming out. It's not trying to say more than that. Hell, it's not even a complete polling (nor has it ever claimed to be)...it's 10 scouts, so we are talking less than a third of the league. But to not take the rankings "seriously" because you don't agree with how a 2021 ranking compared to a 2019 ranking or to say that the rankings are a storyline because you don't like how they played out? It's just a weird take to me. These guys could very well be wrong about how good these kids are...that's not really the point of the poll from McKenzie. He's only trying to give a look through the window on how the people in the league he has talked to view these kids...and it's a self admitted limited view. I understand why you wouldn't take it seriously based on the limited scope...that's pretty much due diligence. But the reason was ostensibly laid out as though it's a joke because of how two different draft rankings of two different years of two different draft classes with different people compares.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Monsieur Verdoux

The 29th Pick

Still Alive !
Dec 7, 2007
19,425
6,632
Northvale N.J.
Teenagers inherently fail to realize the consequences of their actions. They think of what their actions can provide for them now rather than the harmful effects they will have not only on themselves but on other people involved in their actions in the future. The present-day teenage culture is ravaged by this failure to recognize long-term consequences, especially amongst guys.

Nude-culture (I guess you can call it) is at probably its highest point ever amongst high schoolers. People fail to recognize that if they are caught in possession of that kind of stuff, they can go to jail and have major criminal consequences (I am not sure entirely what NJ law is on this because high schools SUCK at recognizing that this is a problem and explaining this to teens). Girls send revealing photos, guys save them, sometimes vice versa but not usually. Sometimes, girls are okay with the guy having the photo, most of the time they would prefer not. Either way, that photo is going to be seen by more than just one person, whether it is sent in a group chat or just shown to someone in person. Some people, like Mailloux, take it a little farther and take pictures in the act as a trophy to show off to his new teammates (that's really what a lot of this is about for some people, they think that having pictures like this will help increase their social standing and get more popular and accepted and stupid shit like that). I know asses who have stuff like this on their phones. I know way more completely normal, unassuming people who have this on their phones. I know people who have had their nude photos spread, and I have never seen one of them do anything about it until the Mailloux case because of a fear of more people (like their parents) knowing about it even though there is a crime quite literally being committed against them. Because of this, this culture will continue being perpetuated until more people like Mailloux get called out for it.

35% (maybe slightly more) of high school guys have probably had shit like this on their phone at some point, whether they got it themselves or from a friend sending it to them. I am not excusing any of them, I am simply pointing out a number based on my relatively recent experience in high school. I lived through this type of shit going on. No matter whether the person who had the pics was a complete shithead or an unassuming nice kid caught up in a shitty culture, the one thing they have in common is a failure to recognize the consequences of having this. Once these consequences are realized, people delete it off their phones and mature enough to understand how wrong what they did was and how lucky they are for not being caught. Some people realize relatively quickly, for some others, though, it takes a while to get it through their head, and some just never realize.

I have a different perspective than most people on this given that I am probably the youngest person on this board right now. I saw this culture happening around me and seemingly unassuming people falling victim to it left and right. Is Mailloux an ass? Maybe, but probably not. He just did a really stupid f***ing thing without using his brain and understanding the scope of his actions. So he absolutely deserves punishment. He should not get special treatment because of his standing as a hockey player, and from everything I have read, he seems to recognize that. He is cooperating with the family harmed, his team, other NHL teams, and the police. He let his story go public a week before the draft even though he didn't have to, turning nearly the entire hockey world against him, and I respect his decision to do that. His psych evaluation came back with seemingly positive results. Unlike a guy like Mitch Miller who couldn't even apologize to the kid he viciously bullied, Mailloux seems to be at least trying to cooperate with the family to make things somewhat right. And I guess the Mitch Miller case stands out to me a bit more because I have never heard of bullying ever get close to that bad in my school and in the neighboring schools that I knew kids at, whereas Mailloux's incident I see way too much of.

It's up to NHL teams to decide whether or not they want to draft him. I see why they wouldn't with the bad press they might get. I would not have drafted Mitch Miller last year. He seems like he might be a psychopath. I don't know if Mailloux is the ass or if he is the unassuming kid who didn't realize the consequences his actions might have. From what I have read about this incident, his psych evaluation, and my experience, he seems like a kid caught up trying to impress his new teammates and trying to fit in that he didn't recognize how wrong what he was doing was. He seems to show a willingness to learn and improve himself from this incident. I would give him a 2nd chance and draft him still so long as he interviews very well, but I would understand the hesitancy for some people.
there are probably a few GM's that read about his actions and said to themselves..."atta boy" and they wouldnt think twice about drafting him (if he's a good hockey player)
 

Captain3rdLine

Registered User
Sep 24, 2020
6,765
7,979
I mean this is exactly why I don't follow the hype from "scouts". Sure they may be professionals but they are human and get things wrong. Also it's more fun to do your own research and have your own opinions, but I guess it's easier for some people to just say "this is the scout consensus".
I don’t think anyone is saying that though. You can have your own opinion of prospects and still post or look at someone else’s rankings that give a look at how some NHL scouts rank the players. At the end of the day they’re the ones making the picks and Mckenzies polls have proven to be very accurate in terms of how things actually shake out. It’s just interesting to see how NHL scouts see the players and get and idea of where you can expect players to go on draft night.
 

Comparison Ford

i got a star
Sponsor
May 25, 2008
23,062
2,501
LA
all sign are pointing to Edvinsson being drafted 3rd. seems like a very anaheim pick.

i think it goes

Power
Beniers
Edvinsson
Hughes
 

Guttersniped

I like goalies who stop the puck
Sponsor
Dec 20, 2018
21,772
46,981
Ive always gotten the feeling the 'scouts' McKenzie gets are always against the grain of popular belief in, usually, a few shocking ways

I think its for the story. Owen Power is a unanimous #1 but Jack was split with Kakko? MacTavish above three other prospects most lists have top-7? And hes the only one who has Edvinsson this high.

Ive never liked McKenzies lists and think theyre just used to drum up storylines.
His lists are literally the most accurate year after year because he is polling actual NHL team scouts. It’s not based on his personal opinion, he’s just polling scouts. He doesn’t predict the future, and doesn’t claim to, he’s just doing his best to gauge what NHL scouts think of the top tier of prospects.

Secondly, the list is way more useful (and interesting) if you read the article that introduces the list.

Bob puts a important caveat about this year’s ranking right in this article.

In large part because of the pandemic, this year’s draft class is showing signs of greater volatility and unpredictability. That was plainly evident when plotting the prospects ranked from No. 2 to No. 9. There’s very little separating the eight prospects immediately behind Power. It’s difficult to remember when, if ever, the No. 2 spot in particular and the top five to nine in general seems as jumbled as this year.

He discusses at length how the voting broke down for the top guys, you don’t have to just go by the simple rankings.

If there’s virtually no separation on our list between Beniers, Edvinsson, Eklund, McTavish and Guenther, any one of Clarke, Hughes or Johnson could break into the Top 5 and supplant any of the top five prospects behind Power. It’s that tight.

He goes more way more in-depth than that. He also discusses scouts on things like Wallstedt vs Cossa.

Bob McKenzie's 2021 final draft rankings - TSN.ca
 

Nico Hughes

Registered User
Jun 28, 2021
453
288
I suppose then I severely question the ten scouts he chooses, no matter the outcome of how they draft

i refuse to believe any sensible scout had Jack Hughes below Kaapo Kakko for anything other than headlines. And I dont often hold very firm on stances when it comes to prospects, but anyone whos played a lick of hockey knew Jack Hughes was a better prospect than Kaapo Kakko.

50% my ass lmfao
 

Guttersniped

I like goalies who stop the puck
Sponsor
Dec 20, 2018
21,772
46,981
I cant take anything serious from a guy whos 'scouts' (which btw do people even understand what constitutes a scout? Half of them are at-home accountants by day) had Kakko and Jack split down the middle on votes, while Power is unanimous in the most wide open draft weve ever seen.

Its 100% storyline
What the hell are you even talking about? What does “100% storyline” even mean? That he’s not polling NHL scouts? (He is.) At home accountants?

And the poll didn’t have Jack and Kakko split down in votes. Jack was the unanimous favorite in first place votes in the two polls (Jan & Apr), 8/10 in June poll.

The quote you’re likely fixating on is this:

“Do you know how much time we spent in our meetings debating who should be No. 1?” the scout said. “Not much time at all. About two minutes. You know why? Because we knew we didn’t have to make that decision. We’re not really invested. There are a lot of tough calls in this draft. We spend a lot of time fighting over this guy or that guy and where to rank them, but no one, except New Jersey and the Rangers, need to do that [with Hughes and Kakko]. So we didn’t.
“We have Hughes at No. 1. We defaulted to that but I know our scouts are pretty evenly split on who [should be No. 1]. I’ll guarantee there are other teams doing the same thing.”

Hughes edges Kakko in TSN’s final draft rankings - TSN.ca

And the new article discusses how Power locked down the 1OA (the scouts point to his performance at the worlds). But you don’t read these article in order to understand them because they aren’t interesting to you so weirdly denounce them as doing… bad things?
 

Guttersniped

I like goalies who stop the puck
Sponsor
Dec 20, 2018
21,772
46,981
I'm wondering if they'll go Edvinsson now also. Fitz has focused on Bahl(6'6), Siegenthaler(6'3), and Graves(6'5). Focus on Hamilton(6'6) and Edvinsson(6'4) and suddenly the Devils have one of the biggest group of defensemen in the league.
They would do really well in pick up basketball too (assuming they knew how to play basketball).
 

Devils Army

Rebuild Over.
Feb 3, 2014
3,863
853
New Jersey
I really don't see how there isn't one scout who has someone other than Power. He's probably the safest choice but im almost certain he won't be the best player in this draft in 5, 10, 15 years. Shocked no one has the similar safety and upside of Beniers or the crazy ceiling of a guy like Luke #1. Power seems like an Erik Johnson/Aaron Ekblad esque #1.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HITMAN88

Devils731

Registered User
Jun 23, 2008
12,337
16,449
Devils see big opportunity with two first-round picks in 2021 Draft

Fitz on whether Luke being Jack’s brother plays into the draft:

“Fitzgerald said the Devils won't base their selection on sentimentality.

"We're going to be true to the process," he said. "I can just be frank about that. I'm sure the Hughes family is very excited about where Luke is going to be and what kind of player he's going to be. ... It must be exciting to have two NHL players under the same roof, plus a future NHL player. There must be something in the water at the Hughes house."”

———————

Throws some water on the idea that Fitz or the Devils will be very invested in Jack wanting Luke to play here.
 

Cheddabombs

Status Quo
Mar 13, 2012
24,720
31,467
Devils see big opportunity with two first-round picks in 2021 Draft

Fitz on whether Luke being Jack’s brother plays into the draft:

“Fitzgerald said the Devils won't base their selection on sentimentality.

"We're going to be true to the process," he said. "I can just be frank about that. I'm sure the Hughes family is very excited about where Luke is going to be and what kind of player he's going to be. ... It must be exciting to have two NHL players under the same roof, plus a future NHL player. There must be something in the water at the Hughes house."”

———————

Throws some water on the idea that Fitz or the Devils will be very invested in Jack wanting Luke to play here.

As it should be
 

Brodeur

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
26,094
15,723
San Diego

Sorry but his rankings are consistently the most accurate in terms of what actually happens and if he was going for a storyline he would put Luke Hughes at 1st overall. He’s also not the only one who has Edvinsson this high. The NHL.com writers actually have him as the second best defensemen and have him going 3 and 5 in their mock drafts.


Bob said during the broadcast that 2-6 is tight and that 7-9 isn't far behind and that Clarke/Hughes/Johnson could go top 5. Sometimes we perceive a bigger chasm than there really is, sometimes it just depends on the draft orders and the needs of those teams.

Sorta reminds me of 2010 when 4-13 was wide open. McKenzie's ranking/survey:

4. Fowler (went 12th)
5. Gormley (13th)
6. Johansen (4th)
7. Niederreiter (5th)
8. Connolly (6th)
9. Campbell (11th)
10. Skinner (7th)
11. Forbort (15th)
12. Burmistrov (8th)
13. Granlund (9th)

Bob was on a podcast a few months back and told an anecdote that the Devils scouts had their own internal gambling pool to see who would have the most accurate mock draft. He said our Quebec scout won a couple years in a row before somebody noticed he was just using Bob's list.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad