Is John Chayka a top-3 GM?

[Empoleon877130]

Not really.
At this point I think the top three GM's in the league are Lou, Steve Yzerman and then theres a few GM's for that third spot that need recognition.. Rutherford, Poile, Fletcher as examples

I wonder why you think Lou is one of the best GMs in hockey

 

[ColdSteel2]

Predictably Stepan goes from barely a #2 center to a top line center in the span of a trade from the Rangers on HF.

Derek Stepan is the truth, get with the times, bro.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I wonder why you think Lou is one of the best GMs in hockey

his track record is pretty impressive. I mean, he's in the HHOF and has won multiple cups. Why would anyone not think he's one of the best?

 

[varano]

I wonder why you think Lou is one of the best GMs in hockey

Because he's won Three stanley cups, 9 division titles, and took the leafs from a bottom feeder to a playoff team in two years?

 

[CupofOil]

his track record is pretty impressive. I mean, he's in the HHOF and has won multiple cups. Why would anyone not think he's one of the best?

Ken Holland was one of the best GMs in the league for a long time. Times change

Lou is still a good GM but top 3 now? Based on what?

Chia won a Cup, almost two and turned the Oilers from basement dweller to possible Cup contender in 2 years completely revamping the roster yet people consider him garbage around here for some odd reason.

 

[varano]

It's not the 90s anymore, Lou hasn't really done THAT much in Toronto.
Yzerman and Poile are the two names that stand out on top. I think Bob Murray is really underrated as well.

Are you insane?

 

[ColdSteel2]

his track record is pretty impressive. I mean, he's in the HHOF and has won multiple cups. Why would anyone not think he's one of the best?

Fatigue from watching him succeed too much then validation of hatred for him when the success stopped.

 

[CupofOil]

Are you insane?

I am but not for thinking that Lou isn't CURRENTLY a top 3 GM. Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Reilly, Gardiner, JVR, Bozak, Kadri. All these pieces were in place already or were pretty obvious draft picks and you can't really give him credit for winning the Matthews lottery. Andersen was a great pickup, Zaitsev, Brown and some of the other depth players are good pickups but is this top 3 worthy? Good GM but top 3, I don't think so.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Ken Holland was one of the best GMs in the league for a long time. Times change

Lou is still a good GM but top 3 now? Based on what?

Lou has taken the Leafs from the worst to actually good. Holland has screwed the Red Wings. They aren't really comparable at this stage, and I think Lou's track record still speaks for itself. He didn't suddenly forget how to work his ass off and use his connections and intelligence to build a good team. His work with the Leafs proves this

 

[Empoleon877130]

Because he's won Three stanley cups, 9 division titles, and took the leafs from a bottom feeder to a playoff team in two years?

How good of a GM do you think Holland is?

his track record is pretty impressive. I mean, he's in the HHOF and has won multiple cups. Why would anyone not think he's one of the best?

The issue is GMs go through ups and downs. Lou was a bad GM by the end of his time in New Jersey, just like Rutherford was a bad GM by the end of his time in Carolina and Holland is a bad GM now. I don't think Lou is the #1 GM now because of what he did with the Devils. He has done well for the Leafs, but he hasn't done anything with the Leafs to deserve being called the #1 GM in hockey. What moves has he made that justify that kind of position?

Idk, I view the Leafs becoming good to be a lot more due to getting guys like Nylander, Marner and Matthews in big roles in the NHL. He has certainly done very well with the Leafs, like with trading a 1st for Andersen and bringing in Zaitsev, but how much of the Leafs improvement is due to moves that he made?

 

[CupofOil]

Lou has taken the Leafs from the worst to actually good. Holland has screwed the Red Wings. They aren't really comparable at this stage, and I think Lou's track record still speaks for itself. He didn't suddenly forget how to work his ass off and use his connections and intelligence to build a good team. His work with the Leafs proves this

I don't disagree so I'll ask as a homer. Why is Lou considered an elite GM and Chia a joke (not calling you out for that btw)? A GM who has completely revamped the roster in 2 seasons and has been just as proactive as any GM in the league in that timeframe in reshaping that roster and completely changing the culture.

 

[Aladyyn]

his track record is pretty impressive. I mean, he's in the HHOF and has won multiple cups. Why would anyone not think he's one of the best?

Lou's washed. Shanahan deserves basically all the praise for the Leafs success.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I don't disagree so I'll ask as a homer. Why is Lou considered an elite GM and Chia a joke? A GM who has completely revamped the roster in 2 seasons and has been just as proactive as any GM in the league in that timeframe in reshaping that roster and completely changing the culture.

I don't personally think Chia is a joke but it's tough to evaluate him when he has a reputation for making bad trades like the Seguin deal. When you think of Chia, you think of him losing Seguin for nothing and it makes people think he's bad. He'll have to do some great work with Edmonton to make people forget about that

 

[cobra427]

Ken Holland was one of the best GMs in the league for a long time. Times change

Lou is still a good GM but top 3 now? Based on what?

Chia won a Cup, almost two and turned the Oilers from basement dweller to possible Cup contender in 2 years completely revamping the roster yet people consider him garbage around here for some odd reason.

Oilers are better because of Mcdavid and the development of Drai mostly, Chia had nothing to do with that. Trading Hall for Larrson was his only great move, dissed by many oiler fans at the time. Lucic is a mistake and he waited too long to unload Eberle.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Lou's washed. Shanahan deserves basically all the praise for the Leafs success.

yeah Shanahan is definitely the person I'd credit the most for the state of the Leafs, but I'm pretty happy with what Lou has done as GM

 

[Frank Drebin]

Top 3 of all time or currently?

 

[Empoleon877130]

Oilers are better because of Mcdavid and the development of Drai mostly, Chia had nothing to do with that. Trading Hall for Larrson was his only great move, dissed by many oiler fans at the time. Lucic is a mistake and he waited too long to unload Eberle.

Couldn't you really say the same thing about Lou and the Leafs? The only big moves he has made are signing Zaitsev, trading Phaneuf and trading for Andersen. Couldn't you say that the Leafs are really only that good because of Nylander, Matthews and Marner?

 

[Sheva7]

Top 3? Tough call. He's definitely up there though.

I'd take him on my team, that's for sure.

 

[CupofOil]

Oilers are better because of Mcdavid and the development of Drai mostly, Chia had nothing to do with that. Trading Hall for Larrson was his only great move, dissed by many oiler fans at the time. Lucic is a mistake and he waited too long to unload Eberle.

See, this is the stuff I'm talking about. Why does Chia get negative points for having McDavid and Draisaitl yet Lou gets praised for having Matthews, Marner and Nylander? You still have to build a team around those guys.

You say that the Larsson trade was the only good move but what about Talbot? Sekera, Lucic (who yes has been a very important player for the Oilers), Maroon (27 goals last year), Russell (yes, important player for the Oilers), Kassian (anybody who watches the Oilers knows how good he is in his role), Letestu, Benning, Cagguila etc.

He has added 3 top 4 Dmen in 2 offseasons, completely revamped the forward group, traded for a top 10 (minimum) goalie and hired one of the best coaches in the league. Yeah, the Reinhart trade and there a few overpays mixed in (Lucic and Russell) and of course it helps immensely to have McDavid, Draisaitl and Klefbom as a base to build off of but it astonishes me that he doesn't get more credit for building the Oilers. I don't consider him a top 3 or even top 5 GM but he has done a lot more good than bad.

 

[LeafFever]

See, this is the stuff I'm talking about. Why does Chia get negative points for having McDavid and Draisaitl yet Lou gets praised for having Matthews, Marner and Nylander? You still have to build a team around those guys.

You say that the Larsson trade was the only good move but what about Talbot? Sekera, Lucic (who yes has been a very important player for the Oilers), Maroon (27 goals last year), Russell (yes, important player for the Oilers), Kassian (anybody who watches the Oilers knows how good he is in his role), Letestu, Benning, Cagguila etc.

He has added 3 top 4 Dmen in 2 offseasons, completely revamped the forward group, traded for a top 10 (minimum) goalie and hired one of the best coaches in the league. Yeah, the Reinhart trade and there a few overpays mixed in (Lucic and Russell) and of course it helps immensely to have McDavid, Draisaitl and Klefbom as a base to build off of but it astonishes me that he doesn't get more credit for building the Oilers. I don't consider him a top 3 or even top 5 GM but he has done a lot more good than bad.

Couldn't you really say the same thing about Lou and the Leafs? The only big moves he has made are signing Zaitsev, trading Phaneuf and trading for Andersen. Couldn't you say that the Leafs are really only that good because of Nylander, Matthews and Marner?

I don't disagree so I'll ask as a homer. Why is Lou considered an elite GM and Chia a joke (not calling you out for that btw)? A GM who has completely revamped the roster in 2 seasons and has been just as proactive as any GM in the league in that timeframe in reshaping that roster and completely changing the culture.

Lou does have the 3 cups and great track record. Chayka hasn't even made the playoffs. Lou had the Leafs make the playoffs last season.

 

[cobra427]

See, this is the stuff I'm talking about. Why does Chia get negative points for having McDavid and Draisaitl yet Lou gets praised for having Matthews, Marner and Nylander? You still have to build a team around those guys.

You say that the Larsson trade was the only good move but what about Talbot? Sekera, Lucic (who yes has been a very important player for the Oilers), Maroon (27 goals last year), Russell (yes, important player for the Oilers), Kassian (anybody who watches the Oilers knows how good he is in his role), Letestu, Benning, Cagguila etc.

He has added 3 top 4 Dmen in 2 offseasons, completely revamped the forward group, traded for a top 10 (minimum) goalie and hired one of the best coaches in the league. Yeah, the Reinhart trade and there a few overpays mixed in (Lucic and Russell) and of course it helps immensely to have McDavid, Draisaitl and Klefbom as a base to build off of but it astonishes me that he doesn't get more credit for building the Oilers. I don't consider him a top 3 or even top 5 GM but he has done a lot more good than bad.

The Oilers had Duby and other role players that would have fit in with the core of Mcdavid/Drai/Larrson. As for your great coach, you mean the one that missed the playoffs his first year there while his former team the sharks went to the finals? Put Mcdavid and Drai on the Coyotes insted of Strome/Dvo and they would be a cup contender while oilers would struggle to make the playoffs. I'm not saying Chia is a bad GM, nothing so far makes him a genius.

 

[ColbyChaos]

Because he's won Three stanley cups, 9 division titles, and took the leafs from a bottom feeder to a playoff team in two years?

It took a lot of skill and ingenuity drafting Matthews over Laine.

 

[LeafFever]

It took a lot of skill and ingenuity drafting Matthews over Laine.

Yeah but he's done so much more. That Kadri contract is such a steal (30 goal/60 point two-way C for 4.5 million per through his prime years). And while the Oilers were trading an elite young first line winger for a top 4 D, Lou signed Zaitsev for free without giving up anything.
And compare getting Andersen to what we just saw with what Winnipeg got in the goaltending department, and that move is looking great.

 

[Empoleon877130]

Lou does have the 3 cups and great track record. Chayka hasn't even made the playoffs. Lou had the Leafs make the playoffs last season.

I wasn't comparing Chayka and Lou, I was commenting on whether Lou deserves to be called the #1 GM in hockey based on what he has done in Toronto.

Lou really hasn't done all that much with the Leafs. His only big moves are trading Phaneuf, trading for Andersen and signing Zaitsev, and his team ended up as a second wildcard team. The Leafs improvement mostly comes from getting a great coach and players drafted before Lou was the Leafs GM.

 

[CupofOil]

The Oilers had Duby and other role players that would have fit in with the core of Mcdavid/Drai/Larrson. As for your great coach, you mean the one that missed the playoffs his first year there while his former team the sharks went to the finals? Put Mcdavid and Drai on the Coyotes insted of Strome/Dvo and they would be a cup contender while oilers would struggle to make the playoffs. I'm not saying Chia is a bad GM, nothing so far makes him a genius.

You mean the coach that is 2-0 in the playoffs against that genius behind the Leafs bench? And he beat the coach who took the Sharks to the finals the year before fwiw.
Put Matthews and Nylander on the Coyotes instead of Strome and Dvorak and they would be a cup contender while the Leafs struggle to make the playoffs.

Never said that Chia was a genius. I'm just saying that he doesn't get enough credit for building the Oilers.