Is Alex Ovechkin a top 10 player of all time?

[Alexander the Gr8]

I don’t think he’s been a top 10 player (forward) since 2014-2015. I agree that he was electric for the first half of 2021-2022. So maybe it’s gotcha moment on me if we’re talking about a single half season stretch during the last 10 years.

A top goal scorer since then? Of course.

Overall, no, and I’m not being sneaky by including defensemen and goalies.

Not even 2018? Where do you have him that year?

 

[HarrySPlinkett]

I would love to know how the guy isn’t a top-10 player if he owns the all time goals record.

 

[Steven Toast]

Borderline top 10 to me. The big four, Crosby, Jagr are ahead of him. Bourque, Lidstrom, Hasek, Richard and maybe 1 or 2 others also have a case. I also expect McDavid to rank ahead of him one day.

 

[jigglysquishy]

I've long thought there's a group of 14 guys after the Big Four that can reasonably be argued in any order, even if some of the arguments are weak. Basically, skaters who can reasonably be argued as second best in their position (third for centres). Or in the case of goalies, best in their position.

Chronologically

Centres
Howie Morenz
Jean Beliveau
Sidney Crosby

Wingers
Maurice Richard
Bobby Hull
Jaromir Jagr
Alex Ovechkin

Defensemen
Eddie Shore
Doug Harvey
Ray Bourque
Nicklas Lidstrom

Goalies
Jacques Plante
Patrick Roy
Dominik Hasek

Any of these guys can be reasonably argued in almost any order. Sure, there would be some head scratchers but for me it's the tier below the Big Four.

I don't have McDavid in this tier yet, but he will join it soon.

 

[pi314]

It's criminal how overrated this guy is.

I'm convinced most people only ever watched highlights of him, including reporters.

I remember in 2009 after each playoff game, the media asking Boudreau about his play.

"Alex was great with the puck."

They'd ask another way.

"Alex was great with the puck."

I never realized how bad of a player he was without the puck before that. His own coach didn't think much of him.

He's got to be one of the worst players in history without the puck. And a few timely hits don't change that.

There was a plenty of stuff like this in his "dominant prime".

Everyone forgets that the "controller disconnected" was in the playoffs, in OT.

I don't care if you score 100 goals per year, if the other team scores 101, you're not doing shit.

He'll be remembered higher than players like Sakic, Yzerman, Lidstrom, etc.

I've seen lots of Lidstrom and Ovechkin play. Call it the eyeball test.

There's just no way he's actually a better hockey player than Lidstrom.

In a game 7, Lidstrom was easily a better player.

One guy cherry-picked and floated, took a half dozen shots, and had a meaningless hit.

The other guy did everything on the ice well.

 

[Toby91ca]

I would love to know how the guy isn’t a top-10 player if he owns the all time goals record.

Because you don't simply rank players based on who scores the most goals?

That said, I do have Gretzky in the top 10

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Let's see.

Gretzky/Orr/Lemieux/Howe obviously ahead. That's 4.

Crosby obviously ahead - that's 5. (fyi it's not that Crosby is an obvious #5 - as much as he's the easiest to compare to Ovi, since they had their careers head to head, and I rank Crosby first).

That leaves names like: Hull, Beliveau, Roy, Bourque, Hasek, Harvey, Richard, Jagr, Lidstrom and a few others.

Hull > Ovechkin. I'm not as high on Hull as most - and their resumes actually are pretty comparable. I feel pretty good about the prospect of Ovi > Hull at the end of his career, but i'll hold off on right now. He's pacing there though.

Beliveau > Ovechkin. Beliveau is one of my highest ranked players, if he's not #5, he's usually 6-7.

Roy > Ovechkin. It's a bit tricky with goalies - but Roy is easily #1 for me, best career overall (Hasek may have been slightly more talented in some regards, but Roy put together the greater performances - his smythes and playoff record are amazing).

Jagr > Ovechkin. This is a bit like Hull to be honest. Not ready to say Ovi > Jagr yet - but by end of his career I could get there. I think if Ovechkin has one more truly great playoff run (3-4 rounds, smythe worthy level) it would be easy to leapfrog Jagr. He can still do so without such a run though, as he seems to have a few more years left.

That's already 9. I get more excited about forwards than defenders - so having Ovechkin leapfrog all of Harvey, Bourque Lidstrom isn't out of the question. Not sure he's ahead of all 3 just yet though - I always say Crosby has had one of the most consistently elite careers of all time (his level of play never dipped below a certain point, his whole career). Bourque is one of only 2 other players in history who can give him a run for his money in that regard. And Harvey has all that playoff success.

Hasek is a tricky one. Talent-wise he should be near the absolute top - but starting his NHL career so late I feel made him miss out on some opportunities. He does have some cups - but that's almost more thanks to the stacked team around him where any decent #1 goalie would win - then a truly smythe-worthy performance worthy of the very best (like Roy has a few).

Richard is also tricky. I know the sense around here is often that he played on dynasties, so overrating his playoff success doesn't do non-dynasty players justice. There is some logic in that - but still. Playoff heroics should matter - and Richard had a stellar career. A top 3 legendary figure in hockey history imo, in terms of his legend.

So I feel pretty certain I have at least 9 players ahead of him - and then among some of these other names, it's close, but could be up to 4-5 more above him. So - i'll say no, he is not a top 10 player of all time. But his career to age 34 is very impressive - and his level of play and energy remaining at age 34 is pretty damn incredible - he seems to have a lot left in the tank. Continuing to rise up the ranks is almost certain. When he retires - good chance he is top 10, or super close to it.

The best thing Ovechkin can do to rise up the ranks is playoff success - that's what will his impact his resume in the most positive way. Another smythe/cup would be incredible.

Richard is I think underrated. People give him grief for doing his 50 in 50 in a WWII year but he went toe to toe with Howe in goals years after. He was at his best in the playoffs as well, which is where he really made his name. He also was the NHL leading goals and point getter of all-time until Howe broke his records. It wasn't just the numbers, he was super clutch. Exactly the kind of player you want leading you into the postseason.

 

[GreatGonzo]

It's criminal how overrated this guy is.

I'm convinced most people only ever watched highlights of him, including reporters.

I remember in 2009 after each playoff game, the media asking Boudreau about his play.

"Alex was great with the puck."

They'd ask another way.

"Alex was great with the puck."

I never realized how bad of a player he was without the puck before that. His own coach didn't think much of him.

He's got to be one of the worst players in history without the puck. And a few timely hits don't change that.

There was a plenty of stuff like this in his "dominant prime".

Everyone forgets that the "controller disconnected" was in the playoffs, in OT.

I don't care if you score 100 goals per year, if the other team scores 101, you're not doing shit.

He'll be remembered higher than players like Sakic, Yzerman, Lidstrom, etc.

I've seen lots of Lidstrom and Ovechkin play. Call it the eyeball test.

There's just no way he's actually a better hockey player than Lidstrom.

In a game 7, Lidstrom was easily a better player.

One guy cherry-picked and floated, took a half dozen shots, and had a meaningless hit.

The other guy did everything on the ice well.

Yet he has a trophy case that rivals some of the all time greats. Pretty good for such a one trick pony..

 

[SillyRabbit]

I wouldn’t trust this section of the site to be able to compare Ovechkin against Hull, Richard, Morenz, etc.

I’d probably start by asking how people think Ovechkin compares to Jagr and Lidstrom.

If people rank him ahead of both, then keep going up the list of players who are typically slightly outside of the top 10 and see if you can start to knock on the door of the top 10.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

It's criminal how overrated this guy is.

I'm convinced most people only ever watched highlights of him, including reporters.

I remember in 2009 after each playoff game, the media asking Boudreau about his play.

"Alex was great with the puck."

They'd ask another way.

"Alex was great with the puck."

I never realized how bad of a player he was without the puck before that. His own coach didn't think much of him.

He's got to be one of the worst players in history without the puck. And a few timely hits don't change that.

There was a plenty of stuff like this in his "dominant prime".

Everyone forgets that the "controller disconnected" was in the playoffs, in OT.

I don't care if you score 100 goals per year, if the other team scores 101, you're not doing shit.

He'll be remembered higher than players like Sakic, Yzerman, Lidstrom, etc.

I've seen lots of Lidstrom and Ovechkin play. Call it the eyeball test.

There's just no way he's actually a better hockey player than Lidstrom.

In a game 7, Lidstrom was easily a better player.

One guy cherry-picked and floated, took a half dozen shots, and had a meaningless hit.

The other guy did everything on the ice well.

It's criminal how overrated this guy is.

I'm convinced most people only ever watched highlights of him, including reporters.

I remember in 2009 after each playoff game, the media asking Boudreau about his play.

"Alex was great with the puck."

They'd ask another way.

"Alex was great with the puck."

I never realized how bad of a player he was without the puck before that. His own coach didn't think much of him.

He's got to be one of the worst players in history without the puck. And a few timely hits don't change that.

There was a plenty of stuff like this in his "dominant prime".

Everyone forgets that the "controller disconnected" was in the playoffs, in OT.

I don't care if you score 100 goals per year, if the other team scores 101, you're not doing shit.

He'll be remembered higher than players like Sakic, Yzerman, Lidstrom, etc.

I've seen lots of Lidstrom and Ovechkin play. Call it the eyeball test.

There's just no way he's actually a better hockey player than Lidstrom.

In a game 7, Lidstrom was easily a better player.

One guy cherry-picked and floated, took a half dozen shots, and had a meaningless hit.

The other guy did everything on the ice well.

Wow, great load of horseshit here.

First of all, the “controller disconnected” play was not an OT goal, and the angle is pretty misleading. You have 3 Rangers outplaying 4 Caps down low. There is no reason why Ovechkin should’ve gone all the way back to the crease as a LW in that situation (backdoor goal on the right side).

For one misleading clip, I can find dozens of him making great defensive plays to break up odd man rushes, or a well timed hit to cause a critical turnover.

If you want to take Lidstrom above him, that’s fine. Just don’t make up random shit to prove your point.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

He's probably closer to top 5 of all time.

 

[Steven Toast]

I dont remember this play as it happened. But its a famous hockey meme now. Is there any more background to it? Was Ovi asked about this play in interviews?

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Ranking Bobby Hull or especially Richard ahead of OV at this point is ridiculous. Richard has no argument, OV has him beat in ross, harts, hart top 10, rockets, top 10 goal finishes, GPG wins, PPG wins. That's despite playing in a 30 team international league vs Richard in a 6 team Canada only league. Yeah Richard won cups and played great in the playoffs, but it's not hard to win cups when you're on the most stacked team in a 6 team league. As for Hull, their resumes are pretty similar (OV is ahead in harts, Smythe, Calder, PPG wins, rockets, top 10 goals, GPG wins, top 10 GPG; Hull is ahead in hart nominations, rosses, top 10 pts, top 10 PPG, has more dominant rocket wins). But again, the fact that OV did it in a 30 team international league should push him ahead. If Hull's resume was way better (like say how Howe's is) then it wouldn't matter. But since they are so close it should matter. Unless of course people think finishing top 1/3/5/10 in a 6 team Canada only league is the same as finishing top 1/3/5/10 in a 30 team international league.

 

[Sun God Nika]

crazy that 1/4 voters can't acknowledge the greatest goal scorer as a top 10 player.

You either gotta be a big time hater that isn't mature enough yet to put the hate goggles away to recognize real or you legitimately lack knowledge when it comes to this sport.

 

[Video Nasty]

crazy that 1/4 voters can't acknowledge the greatest goal scorer as a top 10 player.

You either gotta be a big time hatter that isn't mature enough yet to put the hate goggles away to recognize real or you legitimately lack knowledge when it comes to this sport.

Poll is also 3 1/2 years old. I doubt it would be more than 15% at this point.

 

[Albatros]

Ranking Bobby Hull or especially Richard ahead of OV at this point is ridiculous. Richard has no argument, OV has him beat in ross, harts, hart top 10, rockets, top 10 goal finishes, GPG wins, PPG wins. That's despite playing in a 30 team international league vs Richard in a 6 team Canada only league. Yeah Richard won cups and played great in the playoffs, but it's not hard to win cups when you're on the most stacked team in a 6 team league. As for Hull, their resumes are pretty similar (OV is ahead in harts, Smythe, Calder, PPG wins, rockets, top 10 goals, GPG wins, top 10 GPG; Hull is ahead in hart nominations, rosses, top 10 pts, top 10 PPG, has more dominant rocket wins). But again, the fact that OV did it in a 30 team international league should push him ahead. If Hull's resume was way better (like say how Howe's is) then it wouldn't matter. But since they are so close it should matter. Unless of course people think finishing top 1/3/5/10 in a 6 team Canada only league is the same as finishing top 1/3/5/10 in a 30 team international league.

Richard was the first to score 50 goals in a season (50 in 50 at the time) and break Joe Malone's record (44) that had stood since the very first NHL season, while also lifting the career goal record from 324 to 544. Bobby Hull was then the one to break Richard's single season record more than 20 years later, albeit in many more games.

 

[Video Nasty]

Not even 2018? Where do you have him that year?

2017-2018 or 2018-2019?

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Richard was the first to score 50 goals in a season (50 in 50 at the time) and break Joe Malone's record (44) that had stood since the very first NHL season, while also lifting the career goal record from 324 to 544. Bobby Hull was then the one to break Richard's single season record more than 20 years later, albeit in many more games.

If you're going to try to give a history lesson, don't leave out important facts. Richard scored 50 in a watered down league when many players were involved in WWII. Proven by the fact that he never scored 50 again even though he played multiple 60+ and 70+ game seasons in his prime. In other words, it was a fluke. OV's goal scoring accomplishments blow Richard away. I don't see why Richard and Bobby Hull setting the all time goals record means anything when OV flew by them years ago, is going to set the record himself, has more rockets, more top 3/5/10 goal finishes, more GPG wins. And this is without getting into how much more difficult it is to earn these accolades in a 30 team international league vs a 6 team Canada only league.

 

[moropanov]

No i dont think even top 100 really if thinking about hockey overall ability

 

[Albatros]

If you're going to try to give a history lesson, don't leave out important facts. Richard scored 50 in a watered down league when many players were involved in WWII. Proven by the fact that he never scored 50 again even though he played multiple 60+ and 70+ game seasons in his prime. In other words, it was a fluke. OV's goal scoring accomplishments blow Richard away. I don't see why Richard and Bobby Hull setting the all time goals record means anything when OV flew by them years ago, is going to set the record himself, has more rockets, more top 3/5/10 goal finishes, more GPG wins. And this is without getting into how much more difficult it is to earn these accolades in a 30 team international league vs a 6 team Canada only league.

Even if you remove Richard's goals from the war years altogether he still breaks the records, so how you rate the level of play in that era is not really decisive at all.

Also I don't understand the argument that competition in a bigger league would somehow be tougher than in a smaller one. The league got a lot worse with expansions after 1967.

 

[BallardEra]

Also I don't understand the argument that competition in a bigger league would somehow be tougher than in a smaller one. The league got a lot worse with expansions after 1967.

Hard to really quantify either way but in today's game you're getting the best players across the world playing in the best league in the world.

Just look at the NBA right now and how many of the top players are not even from North America.

 

[Albatros]

Hard to really quantify either way but in today's game you're getting the best players across the world playing in the best league in the world.

Just look at the NBA right now and how many of the top players are not even from North America.

I don't really think it counts against Wilt Chamberlain either that he played in an all-American league, those were very nearly all the best players in the world at the time anyway.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

2017-2018 or 2018-2019?

17-18, although 18-19 is excellent too.

 

[HFpapi]

I love Ovi and think he's the undisputed goal scoring GOAT but his mediocre point totals and all around play past the age of 25 def needs to be held against him a little bit. I have him comfortably top 15 and in that group of players who can maybe make a claim to number 10.

I mean, if Auston Matthews, who is now heading into his 26 year old season, scores only 65 points in 78 games while being fully healthy the way Ovi did at age 26 he will be absolutely crucified.

 

[Neutrinos]

crazy that 1/4 voters can't acknowledge the greatest goal scorer as a top 10 player.

You either gotta be a big time hater that isn't mature enough yet to put the hate goggles away to recognize real or you legitimately lack knowledge when it comes to this sport.

Mike Gartner has more career goals than Messier, Yzerman, Lemieux, Sakic, Bobby Hull, Bossy, LaFleur, Crosby, Richard, Mikita, and Trottier

So, is Gartner a top 20 player? Top 30? Top 50?

According to the voters over on the History board, Gartner isn't even among the top 200 players ever:

Top-200 Hockey Players of All-Time

Here it is: Top-100 Hockey Players of All-Time Top-100 Hockey Players of All-Time (Part 2) Top-100 Hockey Players of All-Time (The Third) The following is the final list of the top #101-200 hockey players of all-time as determined by 17 voting members of the History of Hockey community...

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