Is Alex Ovechkin a top 10 player of all time?
- Thread starter viper0220
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Hockeyholic
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In no particular order:
Gretzky
Lemieux
Orr
Howe
Ovi
Lidstrom
Bourque
Beliveau
Richard
Crosby
Gretzky
Lemieux
Orr
Howe
Ovi
Lidstrom
Bourque
Beliveau
Richard
Crosby
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Plural
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The WHA screws his stats, if would have stayed in the NHL the whole time I could see a case for it.
I’d also take ovi over beliveau
TheGuiminator
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As I always say, there's no real set top 10 imo. There's obviously the set big 4 and then I always put Hasek at 5 (others may disagree). But after that there's a group of Bobby Hull, Beliveau, Crosby, Jagr, Bourque, Roy, can also probably throw Richard and Lafleur in there although I don't rate them as high as others. But OV is in that group, where he falls is just personal preference. Do you prefer the guys who peaked higher but maybe had lower valleys? Do you prefer the guys who didn't peak as high but were always more consistent? Extra value to the bigger sample size regular season or more intense playoffs? Really comes down to what you prefer in ranking players. So OV might not be a lock in the top 10, but I don't see how anyone can have him out of the top 15 at this point. He is the GOAT goal scorer, his peak rivals anyone outside the big 4, post expansion has more harts than anyone not named Gretzky, more individual hardware than anyone not in the big 4 (even after awarding retro rockets), a solid prime and, despite the myth, 1 of the best playoff performers of his era (2nd in goals, 3rd in pts for this era). That sounds like 5-15 to me.
The Nuge
Some say…
Yes. The greatest goal scorer of all time belongs in the top 10 all time players
Varan
Registered User
idk tbh
I surely believe he will be by the end of his career. I also don't think Crosby is top-10 either. But he will be soon
I surely believe he will be by the end of his career. I also don't think Crosby is top-10 either. But he will be soon
I don't know he is in the disussion like 4 spots to fill for me and you have ten or so players fighting for them.
Great One
Big 3
Hasek
Jagr
Bourque
Ovechkin
Crosby
LaFleur
Richard
Lidström
Hull
Shore
Roy
Esposito
Beliveau
Something like that.
Players in groups obviously interchangeable depending on what mood I am in. Let's just say I don't disagree with anyone having him in the top 10 neither with anyone whaving him just outside. Gun to the head he probably makes my cut.
Great One
Big 3
Hasek
Jagr
Bourque
Ovechkin
Crosby
LaFleur
Richard
Lidström
Hull
Shore
Roy
Esposito
Beliveau
Something like that.
Players in groups obviously interchangeable depending on what mood I am in. Let's just say I don't disagree with anyone having him in the top 10 neither with anyone whaving him just outside. Gun to the head he probably makes my cut.
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His first five years were Top Ten material, his ten seasons since are Top 30.
I think he settles in the Top 20 area with Jagr which means Richard stays ahead of him. Hull is not in his radar unless he did something crazy in the playoffs.
I think he settles in the Top 20 area with Jagr which means Richard stays ahead of him. Hull is not in his radar unless he did something crazy in the playoffs.
EdJovanovski
#RempeForCalder
ChiTownPhilly
Not Too Soft
Yeah- I'd say first half-dozen, anyway. However, I'm not sure he'll even pull level with Jagr.
The above table (which is a rendering that measures scoring relative-to-era) doesn't take Playoffs into account, and thus provides an incomplete measure of Maurice Richard, for one. [I don't think mentally factoring in Playoffs will improve Ovechkin's stature on this chart.]
Funny thing about Ovechkin is that after his first six years, his assists just fell completely off the table. [At the time of this writing] he accumulated 55% of his assists in the first 40% of his career. His power-play reliance [re: his scoring totals] is a career 38%. That's a high-ish number for a Forward. For someone whose primary skill is potting goals, he's led the league in Even-Strength Goals just once in the last ten years.
Second-greatest LW of All-Time? I'll buy that. Top-10 player of All-Time? No sale.
Pitaya
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Thats not necessarily true. I dont think the two are mutually inclusive (or however that phrase goes lol)
I dont think Ovechkin is a top-10 player all time but Id say Crosby is. However Ovechkin is the best goal scorer ever.
Let's see.
Gretzky/Orr/Lemieux/Howe obviously ahead. That's 4.
Crosby obviously ahead - that's 5. (fyi it's not that Crosby is an obvious #5 - as much as he's the easiest to compare to Ovi, since they had their careers head to head, and I rank Crosby first).
That leaves names like: Hull, Beliveau, Roy, Bourque, Hasek, Harvey, Richard, Jagr, Lidstrom and a few others.
Hull > Ovechkin. I'm not as high on Hull as most - and their resumes actually are pretty comparable. I feel pretty good about the prospect of Ovi > Hull at the end of his career, but i'll hold off on right now. He's pacing there though.
Beliveau > Ovechkin. Beliveau is one of my highest ranked players, if he's not #5, he's usually 6-7.
Roy > Ovechkin. It's a bit tricky with goalies - but Roy is easily #1 for me, best career overall (Hasek may have been slightly more talented in some regards, but Roy put together the greater performances - his smythes and playoff record are amazing).
Jagr > Ovechkin. This is a bit like Hull to be honest. Not ready to say Ovi > Jagr yet - but by end of his career I could get there. I think if Ovechkin has one more truly great playoff run (3-4 rounds, smythe worthy level) it would be easy to leapfrog Jagr. He can still do so without such a run though, as he seems to have a few more years left.
That's already 9. I get more excited about forwards than defenders - so having Ovechkin leapfrog all of Harvey, Bourque Lidstrom isn't out of the question. Not sure he's ahead of all 3 just yet though - I always say Crosby has had one of the most consistently elite careers of all time (his level of play never dipped below a certain point, his whole career). Bourque is one of only 2 other players in history who can give him a run for his money in that regard. And Harvey has all that playoff success.
Hasek is a tricky one. Talent-wise he should be near the absolute top - but starting his NHL career so late I feel made him miss out on some opportunities. He does have some cups - but that's almost more thanks to the stacked team around him where any decent #1 goalie would win - then a truly smythe-worthy performance worthy of the very best (like Roy has a few).
Richard is also tricky. I know the sense around here is often that he played on dynasties, so overrating his playoff success doesn't do non-dynasty players justice. There is some logic in that - but still. Playoff heroics should matter - and Richard had a stellar career. A top 3 legendary figure in hockey history imo, in terms of his legend.
So I feel pretty certain I have at least 9 players ahead of him - and then among some of these other names, it's close, but could be up to 4-5 more above him. So - i'll say no, he is not a top 10 player of all time. But his career to age 34 is very impressive - and his level of play and energy remaining at age 34 is pretty damn incredible - he seems to have a lot left in the tank. Continuing to rise up the ranks is almost certain. When he retires - good chance he is top 10, or super close to it.
The best thing Ovechkin can do to rise up the ranks is playoff success - that's what will his impact his resume in the most positive way. Another smythe/cup would be incredible.
Gretzky/Orr/Lemieux/Howe obviously ahead. That's 4.
Crosby obviously ahead - that's 5. (fyi it's not that Crosby is an obvious #5 - as much as he's the easiest to compare to Ovi, since they had their careers head to head, and I rank Crosby first).
That leaves names like: Hull, Beliveau, Roy, Bourque, Hasek, Harvey, Richard, Jagr, Lidstrom and a few others.
Hull > Ovechkin. I'm not as high on Hull as most - and their resumes actually are pretty comparable. I feel pretty good about the prospect of Ovi > Hull at the end of his career, but i'll hold off on right now. He's pacing there though.
Beliveau > Ovechkin. Beliveau is one of my highest ranked players, if he's not #5, he's usually 6-7.
Roy > Ovechkin. It's a bit tricky with goalies - but Roy is easily #1 for me, best career overall (Hasek may have been slightly more talented in some regards, but Roy put together the greater performances - his smythes and playoff record are amazing).
Jagr > Ovechkin. This is a bit like Hull to be honest. Not ready to say Ovi > Jagr yet - but by end of his career I could get there. I think if Ovechkin has one more truly great playoff run (3-4 rounds, smythe worthy level) it would be easy to leapfrog Jagr. He can still do so without such a run though, as he seems to have a few more years left.
That's already 9. I get more excited about forwards than defenders - so having Ovechkin leapfrog all of Harvey, Bourque Lidstrom isn't out of the question. Not sure he's ahead of all 3 just yet though - I always say Crosby has had one of the most consistently elite careers of all time (his level of play never dipped below a certain point, his whole career). Bourque is one of only 2 other players in history who can give him a run for his money in that regard. And Harvey has all that playoff success.
Hasek is a tricky one. Talent-wise he should be near the absolute top - but starting his NHL career so late I feel made him miss out on some opportunities. He does have some cups - but that's almost more thanks to the stacked team around him where any decent #1 goalie would win - then a truly smythe-worthy performance worthy of the very best (like Roy has a few).
Richard is also tricky. I know the sense around here is often that he played on dynasties, so overrating his playoff success doesn't do non-dynasty players justice. There is some logic in that - but still. Playoff heroics should matter - and Richard had a stellar career. A top 3 legendary figure in hockey history imo, in terms of his legend.
So I feel pretty certain I have at least 9 players ahead of him - and then among some of these other names, it's close, but could be up to 4-5 more above him. So - i'll say no, he is not a top 10 player of all time. But his career to age 34 is very impressive - and his level of play and energy remaining at age 34 is pretty damn incredible - he seems to have a lot left in the tank. Continuing to rise up the ranks is almost certain. When he retires - good chance he is top 10, or super close to it.
The best thing Ovechkin can do to rise up the ranks is playoff success - that's what will his impact his resume in the most positive way. Another smythe/cup would be incredible.
Varan
Registered User
First bolded is a bit harsh imo. This is what he's done in those 10 seasons:
- Hart
- 4x First AST
- Conn Smythe
- 6x Richard
- Won the Cup
- Led the playoffs in goal-scoring in 2018
- Most goals in the playoffs of all active players
Second bolded, he has a chance to break 895. I'd say that trumps anything playoff wise. Plus, he and his team are still elite and have another chance at a 2nd SC + CS. Another pair of those and it will be pretty hard to keep him out of the 10 best ever.
Hull has a pretty legendary goal total too and was simply better for more seasons than OV, and better in the playoffs.
Easily, but I guess it takes time for people to realize this.
He realized Eric Lindros's potential.
He realized Eric Lindros's potential.
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