News Article: Inside Ken Holland's challenge of rebuilding the Red Wings on the fly

TheOtherOne

Registered User
Jan 2, 2010
8,274
5,272
I think anyone wanting to be Toronto needs to remember Toronto hasn't done **** yet. Chances are they just lose in the conference finals for the next 10 years and then slowly drop to the bottom again.
 

ArGarBarGar

What do we want!? Unfair!
Sep 8, 2008
44,037
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I think anyone wanting to be Toronto needs to remember Toronto hasn't done **** yet. Chances are they just lose in the conference finals for the next 10 years and then slowly drop to the bottom again.

Nobody is saying they want to he Toronto, more that Toronto thus far has done a good job of beginning a rebuild. Whether they make the moves to actually make them a contender is a completely different story, but doesn't negate their work to get here.

Also, is their entire rebuild process invalid if they don't win a cup in the next 10 seasons? Or just one?
 

jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
11,018
8,772
It seems like many people didn't notice how few ROWs they had. Plus they were perfect in the shootout in the worst possible season for that to happen.
And still were a whopping ONE POINT from being bottom 5 in the league.

About the only way this ISN'T another awful season in the standings is if Mrazek gets motivated by being exposed to Vegas, uses it to work his butt off and resurrect his game, and carries the team.

Something I'm definitely not betting will happen (and, quite frankly, am hoping against, since I want front office changes).
 

Henkka

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
31,213
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Tampere, Finland
Detroit was much better in team statistical categories, but bad goaltending (Mrazek) lost most of our expected points for opposite teams.
 

ZDH

Registered User
Mar 6, 2008
8,892
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'Doing well' /= 'looking to contend going forward.'

This is the same ol' story. Having had 25+ years of incredible success, falling back into a level of accomplishment that most of the rest of the NHL would view as fine will obviously seem pale by comparison.



Why not? They aren't going to be bad enough to be in the top 3, or even the top 5. If they have a decent enough team, the guys on it will have more value than they would if the whole team sucked. If Nyquist or Green or Howard or Mrazek or Sheahan has a strong year that pushes the team towards success Holland would be able to move those guys for more either at the deadline or in the offseason.

We will absolutely be exactly that bad next year, we are all but guaranteed to be a cellar dweller next year to expect anything else at this point is delusional. Look at our ****ing defence, our offense is average/bad as is our goaltending. Im not expecting to be better than any team except LV honestly our team is crap.

We are just spinning our tires until KH finally realizes that this thing needs to be blown up or until he finally gets fired.
 
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jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
11,018
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Why not?

That's not the point. They could still **** up their rebuild. Nothing is a quarantee.
Then nobody should try to win the Stanley Cup, regardless of strategy, because nothing is a guarantee. C'mon now.

Yes, Toronto might fall short, or even fall flat on their faces starting this year. But based on the choices the current front office has made thus far, I'm far more encouraged by their odds in the next 5-10 years than the odds of Detroit's plan accomplishing anything noteworthy in the same timeframe.
 

ArGarBarGar

What do we want!? Unfair!
Sep 8, 2008
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jkutswings

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Zetterberg4Captain

Registered User
Aug 11, 2009
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Detroit
Their is no good young dman mean that could be add for AA.

Either we add or we simply trade for a meh player

Just trade for picks and prospects
 

Pavels Dog

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
19,898
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Sweden
Nobody is saying they want to he Toronto, more that Toronto thus far has done a good job of beginning a rebuild. Whether they make the moves to actually make them a contender is a completely different story, but doesn't negate their work to get here.

Also, is their entire rebuild process invalid if they don't win a cup in the next 10 seasons? Or just one?
7th time's the charm I guess. Where would Toronto's rebuild be at if they hadn't gotten Rielly/Kadri from a previous "rebuild"? Why did they need to do this scorched earth rebuild to begin with? Hint: because they made bad decisions with high draft picks, traded good prospects and young players away, had poor/mediocre depth scouting and seemed to grow a very poor culture signified by bad work ethic and media hostility (one of the things hfboard wings fans want more of).
They also lucked into Babcock (huge factor in their quick turnaround), and got a good result with the draft lottery. With all that said, they've accomplished nothing and personally I still think they lack the kind of #1D you win cups with.
 

Heaton

Moderator
Feb 13, 2004
22,548
925
Auburn Hills
7th time's the charm I guess. Where would Toronto's rebuild be at if they hadn't gotten Rielly/Kadri from a previous "rebuild"? Why did they need to do this scorched earth rebuild to begin with? Hint: because they made bad decisions with high draft picks, traded good prospects and young players away, had poor/mediocre depth scouting and seemed to grow a very poor culture signified by bad work ethic and media hostility (one of the things hfboard wings fans want more of).
They also lucked into Babcock (huge factor in their quick turnaround), and got a good result with the draft lottery. With all that said, they've accomplished nothing and personally I still think they lack the kind of #1D you win cups with.

Yep, I've said the same thing dozens of times. Bad management is why rebuilds take forever. Rebuilds should take 5 years max when you have good competent management making more good decisions than bad ones.

Toronto also had to get rid of a bunch of bad long term contracts, something the Wings will need to do sooner than later. The fear is that Holland continues to compound the issue by giving more bad contracts to middle of the road guys.
 

One Blurred Eye

Prefer the future.
Sep 27, 2014
287
14
Detroit was much better in team statistical categories, but bad goaltending (Mrazek) lost most of our expected points for opposite teams.

Detroit's offense was 5th from bottom by goals per game, sixth from bottom by shots per game, PP 4th worst (despite having the 7th most PP time in the league), bottom third in shots against, and could only be bothered to score first in a game 27 times. Yeah, Mrazek shares some blame but no Detroit goaltender was getting much help from the 18 guys in front of him (they weren't winning much even when Howard was healthy and playing lights out). This team is a dumpster fire inside a tire fire underneath a giant radioactive turd Godzilla left at the center of the ruins of Tokyo. Pointing out the tire fire in this scenario as the root cause of the team's miserable performance is pretty silly.

As for AA, sure, why not flip him for whichever ineffective, over-the-hill dman that Kenny has had a hard-on for for six or seven years. What's the value of having a gifted, exciting player capable of scoring goals if you're just gonna staple him to the bench for minor infractions while letting non-contributing but "hard-working" plugs rack up 20 minutes of ice time a night killing penalties and chasing the puck around their own zone for the majority of their shifts. I know I sure tune in to watch our skill-less drones meet coach's low standards for "playing the game right," which is infinitely more rewarding than watching creative players score goals, even though the games are boring as hell and we lose anyways. I mean it's not like the point of professional sports is to entertain us or anything, right?
 

Heaton

Moderator
Feb 13, 2004
22,548
925
Auburn Hills
Detroit's offense was 5th from bottom by goals per game, sixth from bottom by shots per game, PP 4th worst (despite having the 7th most PP time in the league), bottom third in shots against, and could only be bothered to score first in a game 27 times. Yeah, Mrazek shares some blame but no Detroit goaltender was getting much help from the 18 guys in front of him (they weren't winning much even when Howard was healthy and playing lights out). This team is a dumpster fire inside a tire fire underneath a giant radioactive turd Godzilla left at the center of the ruins of Tokyo. Pointing out the tire fire in this scenario as the root cause of the team's miserable performance is pretty silly.

As for AA, sure, why not flip him for whichever ineffective, over-the-hill dman that Kenny has had a hard-on for for six or seven years. What's the value of having a gifted, exciting player capable of scoring goals if you're just gonna staple him to the bench for minor infractions while letting non-contributing but "hard-working" plugs rack up 20 minutes of ice time a night killing penalties and chasing the puck around their own zone for the majority of their shifts. I know I sure tune in to watch our skill-less drones meet coach's low standards for "playing the game right," which is infinitely more rewarding than watching creative players score goals, even though the games are boring as hell and we lose anyways. I mean it's not like the point of professional sports is to entertain us or anything, right?

Lowest goal total since the 1970's.
 

ArGarBarGar

What do we want!? Unfair!
Sep 8, 2008
44,037
11,731
7th time's the charm I guess. Where would Toronto's rebuild be at if they hadn't gotten Rielly/Kadri from a previous "rebuild"? Why did they need to do this scorched earth rebuild to begin with? Hint: because they made bad decisions with high draft picks, traded good prospects and young players away, had poor/mediocre depth scouting and seemed to grow a very poor culture signified by bad work ethic and media hostility (one of the things hfboard wings fans want more of).
They also lucked into Babcock (huge factor in their quick turnaround), and got a good result with the draft lottery. With all that said, they've accomplished nothing and personally I still think they lack the kind of #1D you win cups with.

First off, you are citing issues with the previous GM making short-sighted decisions as a way to knock the current GM.

Secondly, the bolded is a flat out lie.
 

Pavels Dog

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
19,898
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Sweden
First off, you are citing issues with the previous GM making short-sighted decisions as a way to knock the current GM.

Secondly, the bolded is a flat out lie.
Not really, more that the "success" of their current rebuild wouldn't have happened if they didn't have 10 years of failed rebuilding before it.

And I strongly disagree with the bolded being false. Debatable maybe?

http://thehockeywriters.com/the-culture-change-of-the-maple-leafs/

The kids are being brought up right. It’s a culture that rewards hard work and hustle, something Maple Leaf teams of the very recent past desperately lacked. Everyone buys into the system early and is on the same page. It represents a positive change for the franchise and one that will need to continue to happen if they want success in the future.

http://www.foxsports.com/nhl/story/babcock-lays-out-plans-to-run-a-tight-ship-in-toronto-063015

Babcock also seemed intent on repairing the team's relationship with the media, a pairing which has always been tense but escalated to new heights this past season
 

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