If I'm Jarmo, I'm planning out for 3 years. Here's What's needed

[MoeBartoli]

Moe B, have you gone full snark??

Sure, ok, maybe GMJK is doing that. I guess I wouldn’t be surprised. But why are you fixated on that? It won’t happen before the much more important matter of the 2018 playoffs happen, so ...? At the moment our 4th line contains an overpaid but quite capable player, and our team is in the playoff chase. What is the point you're trying to make here?

No snark intended and apologies if came across that way. More the joking sarcasm so prevalent thru sitting thru hundreds of business meetings.

You're right all is going well and I'm as happy as anyone about that. My whole thing with Dubi is part of the Jarmo over the next three year plan stuff. The tweaks - not sell, not big buys, just tweaks - he made at the trade deadline were good ones and put us in a much better position than we were, giving us depth and an offensive weapon. But while we drive for the playoffs, I'll table the Dubi trade and contract stuff until trade season.

 

[EspenK]

^^^^^^^^

Stick to your guns Moe. Dubi has to go and the sooner the better imo. His cap hit can't be absorbed while Panarin, Bob, Z and others are re-signed. Plus I think a full year of 4th line duty will piss him off and affect his performance. Unlike you, however, I am not opposed to a buyout although a trade with salary retained is a better option.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

^^^^^^^^

Stick to your guns Moe. Dubi has to go and the sooner the better imo. His cap hit can't be absorbed while Panarin, Bob, Z and others are re-signed. Plus I think a full year of 4th line duty will piss him off and affect his performance. Unlike you, however, I am not opposed to a buyout although a trade with salary retained is a better option.

Dubinsky is now 16 games without a point.

I concur that a salary retained transaction would be ideal. 50% is the maximum amount which a team can retain. Perhaps that and a 2nd round pick/B tier prospect could entice someone, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that.

Jenner's resurgence is another nail in the Dubinsky coffin. He's killing the offense of anyone he's with.

 

[Sore Loser]

Dubinsky is now 16 games without a point.

I concur that a salary retained transaction would be ideal. 50% is the maximum amount which a team can retain. Perhaps that and a 2nd round pick/B tier prospect could entice someone, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that.

Jenner's resurgence is another nail in the Dubinsky coffin. He's killing the offense of anyone he's with.

For this last reason, I'm coming around to the idea of re-signing Vanek. Give him a two year deal at a reasonable hit; his chemistry with Jenner and Wennberg has given us a very viable, veteran type third line. I didn't like the idea of bringing him back at first, but giving him a shorter deal (if he'll sign it), will allow our younger players to develop farther.

If you move Dubinsky by some miracle, great. But if not, come back next year like this:

Panarin-Dubois-Atkinson
Bjorkstrand-Foligno-Anderson
Jenner-Wennberg-Vanek
Milano-Dubinsky-Sedlak

(Or bring back Letestu and see if you can parlay one of the younger forwards with one of our glut defensemen for an upgrade at forward).

I think JJ walks and we bring back Ian Cole. He has been great with Savard.

Werenski-Jones
Murray-Nutivaara
Cole-Savard
Kukan-Harrington

Maybe Murray and Milano or Bjorkstrand brings back a significant forward?

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Dubinsky has 3 years after this one at 5.85 per.

I still think he has a vital role on this team. One that nobody else does at the center position. No, he's not the player he once was, and is basically useless offensively. But the players in the room like him, and he is still good at faceoffs even though he's struggled in that regard recently. Dubois and Wennberg have the top 2 center spots locked, but its not like we have guys behind Dubinsky on the way to take his job as of yet. Stenlund is probably a year or so away, and even if he makes the team he probably won't start at C. Texier is further away than him, and that's our entire center pool.

Sedlak isn't good, and if we don't keep Letestu then our 4th line center becomes a big need. I think we do keep Letestu, but I also don't think getting rid of Dubinsky is necessary. Look at what happened when we let go of Hartnell, we didn't use the cap space until the deadline this year and his personality was missed in the locker room. Dubinsky would be missed, and he is still reliable enough defensively to keep around even though he is way overpaid.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Dubinsky has 3 years after this one at 5.85 per.

I still think he has a vital role on this team. One that nobody else does at the center position. No, he's not the player he once was, and is basically useless offensively. But the players in the room like him, and he is still good at faceoffs even though he's struggled in that regard recently. Dubois and Wennberg have the top 2 center spots locked, but its not like we have guys behind Dubinsky on the way to take his job as of yet. Stenlund is probably a year or so away, and even if he makes the team he probably won't start at C. Texier is further away than him, and that's our entire center pool.

Sedlak isn't good, and if we don't keep Letestu then our 4th line center becomes a big need. I think we do keep Letestu, but I also don't think getting rid of Dubinsky is necessary. Look at what happened when we let go of Hartnell, we didn't use the cap space until the deadline this year and his personality was missed in the locker room. Dubinsky would be missed, and he is still reliable enough defensively to keep around even though he is way overpaid.

The CBJ wouldn't miss a beat without him. His 52% FO percentage amounts to one extra possession gained every third game or so.

People seem to be dismissing his dismissal as AC and his Vegas issue. Those are no small potatoes. Something is up with him-and it's not good. This commonly accepted notion that he's a 'respected leader' may not be true.

Let's not forget that he can't fight anymore due to his orbital injury. His intimidation factor is gone as well.

There will be plenty of 4th line UFAs who will be available who can bring whatever Dubinksy brings anymore. His skill set is eminently replaceable. 4th line players are a dime a dozen. They're not $6 million per year cap players. A horrific signing which will be costly to be rid of.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

For this last reason, I'm coming around to the idea of re-signing Vanek. Give him a two year deal at a reasonable hit; his chemistry with Jenner and Wennberg has given us a very viable, veteran type third line. I didn't like the idea of bringing him back at first, but giving him a shorter deal (if he'll sign it), will allow our younger players to develop farther.

If you move Dubinsky by some miracle, great. But if not, come back next year like this:

Panarin-Dubois-Atkinson
Bjorkstrand-Foligno-Anderson
Jenner-Wennberg-Vanek
Milano-Dubinsky-Sedlak

(Or bring back Letestu and see if you can parlay one of the younger forwards with one of our glut defensemen for an upgrade at forward).

I think JJ walks and we bring back Ian Cole. He has been great with Savard.

Werenski-Jones
Murray-Nutivaara
Cole-Savard
Kukan-Harrington

Maybe Murray and Milano or Bjorkstrand brings back a significant forward?

I think that Vanek can be signed for a year. I'd rather up his rate and not be obligated for an additional year. He's signed one year contracts the past two years so he's probably not got an issue with doing another. He'll turn 35 next season and I'm not sure what that implication is with respect to contracts.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

The CBJ wouldn't miss a beat without him. His 52% FO percentage amounts to one extra possession gained every third game or so.

People seem to be dismissing his dismissal as AC and his Vegas issue. Those are no small potatoes. Something is up with him-and it's not good.

Let's not forget that he can't fight anymore due to his orbital injury. His intimidation factor is gone as well.

There will be plenty of 4th line UFAs who will be available who can bring whatever Dubinksy brings anymore. His skill set is eminently replaceable. 4th line players are a dime a dozen. They're not $6 million per year cap players. A horrific signing which will be costly to be rid of.

I know nothing about what happened in Vegas or why he lost the A. I can't comment about the severity because I don't know. It would be unfair to pretend to know. Does it sound bad? Yeah, but only Dubinsky and the team know what happened. If we know more later, then maybe I will revisit this.

IIRC, his faceoff % is still 2nd best on the team of true centers behind Letestu, who wasn't even here until the deadline. I think Jenner's % is higher, but he's not going to play center. We need to improve on our faceoffs not get worse, and although 52% isn't fantastic, it is still better than every other center.

I agree that the signing isn't great, but he is relied upon in key moments still and I don't see that changing. Unless they have a chance to improve their roster this summer and need the cap space, I don't see any reason to dump Dubinsky this year.

 

[db2011]

Moe B, have you gone full snark??

Sure, ok, maybe GMJK is doing that. I guess I wouldn’t be surprised. But why are you fixated on that? It won’t happen before the much more important matter of the 2018 playoffs happen, so ...? At the moment our 4th line contains an overpaid but quite capable player, and our team is in the playoff chase. What is the point you're trying to make here?

FWIW I typed a edit to this post that got lost in the ether. It’s point was that I took a look at the title of this thread and realized that I made a mistake. Right now I love Dubi on the 4th line, but I know that’s a luxury. Since we are talking about the future, I realize my comment above is wrong. Dubi’s Contract is not sustainable if he’s playing on the 4th line.

 

[EspenK]

All things considered unless Dubi is reincarnated as old Dubi next season, at some point he has to go simply for cap reasons. Buyout or trade he has to go. Maybe not next season but for sure before 2019 -20 he has to be gone. FO % not withstanding he has to go.

 

[cslebn]

I think Dubi is hitting Bickell (Traded with TT) or Bolland (Traded with Crouse) territory quickly. Is that really the kind of price we want to pay to ship him out now?

(Granted months ago I tried to pair him with a first in this thread)

 

[thebus88]

"Ya with this Dubi contact "crippling" the team there is no way we are gonna make the playoffs!!"




(Realizes we're making it 2 years in a row)


Having young guys like Bjorkstrand, Milano and Dubois filling the scoring roles on "cheap"/ELC contracts, helps the team spend a little extra on a defensive minded veteran center.

This team IS NOT hurt in any way with Dubinsky on the team.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

"Ya with this Dubi contact "crippling" the team there is no way we are gonna make the playoffs!!"




(Realizes we're making it 2 years in a row)


Having young guys like Bjorkstrand, Milano and Dubois filling the scoring roles on "cheap"/ELC contracts, helps the team spend a little extra on a defensive minded veteran center.

This team IS NOT hurt in any way with Dubinsky on the team.

Of course, given the thread's title and the length of Dubi's contract and the players who will need new contracts in that three-year period, your take is awfully short-sighted.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Having young guys like Bjorkstrand, Milano and Dubois filling the scoring roles on "cheap"/ELC contracts, helps the team spend a little extra on a defensive minded veteran center.

This team IS NOT hurt in any way with Dubinsky on the team.

Yeah. About $4.85 million extra. Just a little

Now at 16 games in a row with ZERO points. 20% of a season. He's cooked. Done. Finished.

 

[mikeyp24]

Yeah. About $4.85 million extra. Just a little

Now at 16 games in a row with ZERO points. 20% of a season. He's cooked. Done. Finished.

So was Dustin Brown.

 

[thebus88]

Of course, given the thread's title and the length of Dubi's contract and the players who will need new contracts in that three-year period, your take is awfully short-sighted.

The entire thread is based on the idea that this is a "bad" team and that "changes" need to be made. Also, nearly all of the negative talk about Dubi is based on his effect on the current team, not the "future". The dude is 31/32 not 35+, and his "drop off" is highly overstated IMO. Usage is LITERALLY the reason why Dubi's offensive numbers are so bad. We now have a "strong platoon" of young wingers (Bjorkstrand, Milano, (lesser extent, Anderson) who are USED and (now) CAPABLE of legitimately playing a scoring role while not having a huge impact on the cap. THE MAIN REASON IT'S IMPORTANT HAVING "IMPORTANT" PLAYERS ON "ELC" CONTRACTS IS THAT ESSENTIALLY EVERY TEAM HAS "OLDER" PLAYERS THAT ARE "OVERPAID". Then we have the "emergence" of both Dubois and the Foligno "line". And Wennberg. All are used in mainly offensive roles. If Dubi could swap wingers and "roles" with any of the centers, his offensive numbers would see a boost. But, that's not what would make this team better. Neither would having a vastly inferior center/player on our "top defensive line" while saving 2 million dollars.

Same goes for all the people, who not long ago (or still do), think that we need to "strip the C" and/or move Foligno. The REAL ANCHOR might be Wennberg. Even with the recent hot streak of the "line" (100% LED by annual scapegoat/"trade bait" Jenner) Wennberg has been absolutely disappointing, and IMO has had a negative impact. Both Dubois and Foligno have passed him on the 'offensive center depth chart'. Could easily argue that lines 2-4 are equal in impact, that will vary game by game, or week by week depending on the play of the guys.

There's also the chance of an injury to 1 of our "centers". Dubi has proven over his entire time in Columbus, even last year, that he can produce decent offense, or at the very least be a perfectly fine "complementary" center, on a "scoring line" or playing with offensive players. More than likely something a different/lesser/cheaper C could not handle. That is NOT his job, with the way this roster (when healthy) is built.

This team is a GOOD TEAM WITH Brandon Dubinsky, and probably still will be in 1 or 2 or 3 years.

 

[thebus88]

Yeah. About $4.85 million extra. Just a little

Now at 16 games in a row with ZERO points. 20% of a season. He's cooked. Done. Finished.

Please.

Name the 1 million, 2 million, or even 3 million dollar guys that we would be "better off" with.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

So was Dustin Brown.

He has the benefit of playing with a guy named Kopitar.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Please.

Name the 1 million, 2 million, or even 3 million dollar guys that we would be "better off" with.

Trevor Lewis @ $2million.

Even a declining Vermette @$1.75m. Just off the top of my head.

 

[thebus88]

Trevor Lewis @ $2million.

Even a declining Vermette @$1.75m. Just off the top of my head.

This isn't fantasy hockey. I'm sure they could sign Ribeiro for less and he'd score more points than Dubinsky would too.

And we'd be losing many more games than we do now with any of the 3, or the vast majority of other realistic "replacements" you can come up with.

 

[CharlotteJacket]

Has anyone asked McConnell Jr. if he wants to swallow another $17.5 M ?

 

[EDM]

And let’s not forget all of thr negative nellies who were convinced that Cam was washed up because he was not as effective when he was playing with a broken foot.

Let me tell u that I rely upon Jarmo’s judgment far more than all of the amateur GM’s who r so sure they know so much more than the career professionals.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Has anyone asked McConnell Jr. if he wants to swallow another $17.5 M ?

It's only 2/3rds of that. Chump change

 

[CBJx614]

He has the benefit of playing with a guy named Kopitar.

Nor does he have a metal plate in his face.

 

[thebus88]

Nor does he have a metal plate in his face.

Or playing with a visor for the 1st time in his career.