If I'm Jarmo, I'm planning out for 3 years. Here's What's needed

[The Jones Zone]

Barring a miracle, it's next to impossible to see the Jackets make a serious playoff run this year. There would need to be major changes the next 2 years or I don't see that changing. So here's my 3 year plan theory, and it's not a Russian hoax....conspiracy, ect.

1) If scoring, especially on the PP does not improve next year, Torts has to go. I love Torts, his passion is undeniable, but this sports at the highest level, JD and Jarmo would have to cut him loose. Give him 30-40 games next year, if things don't change, hire a temporary coach to finish the year.

2) The Russian roulette, not a hoax. You have to re-sign Bob and Panarin. Here's the incentive I throw at them. I push the plan to both of them that your going to do everything you can to help Abramov and Gavrikov develop and make the team. They would be suiting up 4 solid Russian players in your starting lineup every night. Who knows, players develop at all stages and different speeds, just maybe Abramov develops into a guy who can play opposite Panarin. I've heard many say that Bob loves it when He can find someone else who can speak Russian, having 4 of them in the lineup could be something very intriguing to them. Imagine yourself in Russia playing hockey, with a chance to have 3 other Americans there to bond with.

3) The fix at Center. Hartnell is on the books for 3 million yet next year, then it drops down to 1.25 for 2 more years, so Dubinsky is likely back for 1 more year,maybe 2, then you can afford to buy out his last 1-2 years. Now you have to work hard to develop and give either Stenlund or Texier the chance to pencil in at 3C. Down the middle you have PLD, Wennberg, Stenlund or Texier, and Sedlak. Texier looks really skilled, and could be ready to be a difference maker. Maybe package Wennberg and a pick/prospect for an upgrade at 2C.

3) The Core D group is here, especially if Murray can stay healthy. Jones, Werenski, Murray, Nutivaara, Gavrikov, with numerous options for your 6th D man. Maybe Peake is an option to get a second Right handed D man in the lineup....this could give you the chance to package Murray or Nutivaara with Wennberg for a serious upgrade at center.

4) Forwards: Panarin, Cam, Anderson, Foligno, Bjork, Abramov, Milano, there's your top 7 forwards as of now. 7th and 8th Forward could easily be different, maybe better. A lot can happen in 2-3 years.

I'm trading J. Johnson and Calvert for picks or prospects in the next 6 days. If you don't, your getting nothing for them, neither of them will be playing for the Jackets next year. I think I hold on to Jenner. He's still a RFA after this year, has little leverage with the way He's played, and selling now likely means selling low. I mean He can't play worse next year can He.

I have not done any math, so no I'm positive this could even work if they all wanted to stay with the Jackets. But there are positives, Hartnell buyout drops down to 1.25 after next year, Tyutin has 2 more years left at 1.4. This makes Dubi an easy buyout in 2 years, maybe even after next year. 5.8 million for a guy who can't hit double digits in goals is what is called and also ran in horse racing, out of the money.

Sorry for the short story, I'll try for cliff notes next time. The 3 year plan, that's what I see as realistic for this organization and a long playoff run with legitimate chance for a Cup.

Flame away. #CBJ

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[CBJx614]

The problem is your solution is completely dependent on rookies filling in the holes. And this year should have shown you that is not the answer.

Firstly, if Abramov is ready to be in the NHL next year, Jarmo and JD will have him in the NHL, there's absolutely no need to rush the kid for a magic bullet solution, that's going back to the early CBJ days. Look how long it'A taken players like Cam and Bjorkstrand to solidify a spot on the roster

Panarin and Bob can talk to Gavrikov until they're blue in the face, but he can't come over until his contract is up. And depending on how Kukan, Murray and Nuttivara finish this season and next, there may not be an open spot for him when he's ready, he might have to literally come into camp without a guaranteed spot and steal one. Who knows if he even wants to bother at that point.


Same thing goes for your solution at center, you can't pencil in Stenlund or Texier for a spot on the big club next year or the year after, i love me some Stenlund, more than most, but he's gonna have to steal a spot from Sedlak or learn to play wing until he can steal a center spot. And I think Texier will need at least another season or two at leastbefore he's going to challenge for a spot.


I think they have a general game plan but you never know what kind of deal you might get offered (Saad/Panarin) and how your holes might change from season to season.

Edit :

I know I offered a lot of criticism but no real answers myself.

First thing I would do is look to get as much as possible from expiring contracts I don't see as the long term plan.

JJ firstly. If we win out to the deadline I MIGHT hold onto him depending on his play.

Same could be said for Calvert, but mid round pick is the more likely option.

I really don't think there's a good move to make to help this team in the playoffs, they haven't shown enough to make me want to go get them help, I don't trust in their ability to play consistently for 2 games, let alone 16+ games and going out and getting help from one guy isn't going to change things.

So I wouldn't make any moves besides whatever picks or prospects I could get in return for Calvert and JJ

Re-sign Jenner to a similar deal, make him prove this was a down year and that he can rebound

Re-sign Bjorky to a sweetheart long term deal if possible, Nutti and Kukan deserve pay bumps, not necessarily long term deals but Nutti at least deserves a 1 way contract, and then Murray needs another show me deal, except I want him to show me he can stay healthy for two or three seasons before I offer him anything long term.

And then I would start exploring whose available from other teams and whose hitting FA. There might be some depth players to grab from FA as long as you don't have to overpay.

My goal would be to stock this team from top to bottom before camp so that I feel comfortable going into the season without any of my rookies on the club. And really force them to earn a spot. Because as of now I think someone like Stenlund would be able to steal a spot in the bottom 6 because of his size and ability around the puck, but only because I don't trust in Mottes and Schroeders to consistently play in the bottom 6.

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

Couldn't have said it any better myself @WubbaLubbaDubDub . Solid post.

 

[EspenK]

I'll play.

First and foremost get a coach who can be effective in today's NHL. I'm pretty sure its not Torts.

Secondly get rid of Johnson, Jenner, Savard and Dubinsky. Foligno I wouldn't be upset to see him go.

Re-sign Panarin & Bob. Hopefully 8 mill a year will keep them both. Try to keep Bob shorter term than Panarin. Limited NTC's at most.

Poop or get off the pot with Milano. Play him till he either scores 20 g's or goes bust. New coach critical here.

Same with Wennberg. Either get him back to a 50-60 point C or syonara.

Take a realistic run at Tavares. I think we could go up to 11 mill and make it work.

Find a 3C to replace Dubi through a trade or FA or hope Stenlund develops quickly

The D is pretty set with Jones, Werenski, Murray, Nuti, Kukan, plus 2 better at 6 & 7. Trade, FA or prospect to fill spots.

Korpi is a big question in my mind. Ideally I'd like our backup to have potential like Vasilevsky or Rinne to become a #1 when the time comes.

Try to rebuild the Monsters with some talent that can make the jump to the big club when needed. I worry that our most promising prospects are all overseas.

 

[Robert]

Get rid of Yarmo..... I want a North American General Manager.... Preferably a Canadian..

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Get rid of Yarmo..... I want a North American General Manager.... Preferably a Canadian..

Jarmo must go. He has failed.

Anyone think that he hasn't? Watch Boston play a game. Watch Nashville play a game. Watch Tampa Bay play a game. Watch Winnipeg play a game. He has built a team which can't be anything but a bubble team this year and likely a non playoff team from here on out.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Is this the Fire Jarmo thread?

 

[blahblah]

I stopped at "You have to re-sign Bob and Panarin". That's traditional thinking and I'm not traditional. To illustrate I mentioned protecting WK and exposing Foligno. Good luck.

Frankly I would be doing everything I could NOT to have to re-sign Bob. He's on the other side of 30 in a few short months. Let someone else pay him 8+ million for 6+ years. As far as Panarin, it would depend on his demands. He's not our franchise winger. We can't afford to pay him like one. He's elite, but I see no evidence he's going to carry this team. We would need complementary pieces around him.

If I get bored I'll give my views as I think about them. I can tell you that there would be a lot of turnover.

 

[EspenK]

I stopped at "You have to re-sign Bob and Panarin". That's traditional thinking and I'm not traditional. To illustrate I mentioned protecting WK and exposing Foligno. Good luck.
......
If I get bored I'll give my views as I think about them. I can tell you that there would be a lot of turnover.

Foligno had a NMC and had to be protected unless he waived...please stay busy...

 

[Hello Johnny]

Korpi is a big question in my mind. Ideally I'd like our backup to have potential like Vasilevsky or Rinne to become a #1 when the time comes.

I agree with most of your post, but I just want to point out that Pekka Rinne didn't become an NHL goalie until he was 27. Korpisalo is 23 – goalies take time and Korpi has been learning from one of the best in the world for a couple years and will continue to do so, so I believe when he's 25-26 he will round into a bona-fide starter. Hell, Bob was average at best when he came here at age 25. Look at him now.

I stopped at "You have to re-sign Bob and Panarin". That's traditional thinking and I'm not traditional. To illustrate I mentioned protecting WK and exposing Foligno. Good luck.

Foligno has a NMC. I understand the line of thinking, but it even if management wasn't fully in love with Foligno, that NMC still would have gotten in the way of things.

Jenner is who we really should have exposed.

 

[CBJx614]

I agree with most of your post, but I just want to point out that Pekka Rinne didn't become an NHL goalie until he was 27. Korpisalo is 23 – goalies take time and Korpi has been learning from one of the best in the world for a couple years and will continue to do so, so I believe when he's 25-26 he will round into a bona-fide starter. Hell, Bob was average at best when he came here at age 25. Look at him now.


Foligno has a NMC. I understand the line of thinking, but it even if management wasn't fully in love with Foligno, that NMC still would have gotten in the way of things.

Jenner is who we really should have exposed.

Did Hartnell have any type of NMC? I'm curious if Jarmo tried to tempt them towards Hartnell. Considering he was bought out months later, tempting Vegas with Hartnell, a first, + prospect pick would have been the best route. I just don't think Vegas would bite without giving something worthwhile up.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Did Hartnell have any type of NMC? I'm curious if Jarmo tried to tempt them towards Hartnell. Considering he was bought out months later, tempting Vegas with Hartnell, a first, + prospect pick would have been the best route. I just don't think Vegas would bite without giving something worthwhile up.

Scott Hartnell - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

He did. An NMC. No Movement Contract. No trade. No minors. No Nuthin (which is about how Jarmo was with his expansion draft decisions).

The exposure of Karlsson and the protection of Boone Jenner and Murray is a huge indictment of the FO. It's as if they didn't notice the game getting faster.

 

[hardkorejackets]

I haven't been very critical of Jarmo to date... But, the Vegas Expansion Draft was pretty much a whiff by Jarmo and our front office...
First, we agreed to the trade with Vegas- Danny Clarkson, 1st round pick, 2nd round pick, William Karlsson. We decided to protect Boone Jenner and Scott Hartnell. We told them to take William Karlsson (a 30 goal scorer, 1st line C for them now), a 1st round pick-Kristian Vesalainen, and a 2nd round pick in 2019. Shoot, we have 19.8 million in cap space currently... Was it really a necessity to trade Danny Clarkson and buy out Scott Hartnell?
At least Vegas decided to give us the 2nd round pick for Kolesar (ECHL player currently) for Texier.

But, with all our cap space and wanting to acquire Duchene or another skilled player- We acquired nothing. Bought out Scott Hartnell a bit later.

 

[CBJx614]

I haven't been very critical of Jarmo to date... But, the Vegas Expansion Draft was pretty much a whiff by Jarmo and our front office...
First, we agreed to the trade with Vegas- Danny Clarkson, 1st round pick, 2nd round pick, William Karlsson. We decided to protect Boone Jenner and Scott Hartnell. We told them to take William Karlsson (a 30 goal scorer, 1st line C for them now), a 1st round pick-Kristian Vesalainen, and a 2nd round pick in 2019. Shoot, we have 19.8 million in cap space currently... Was it really a necessity to trade Danny Clarkson and buy out Scott Hartnell?
At least Vegas decided to give us the 2nd round pick for Kolesar (ECHL player currently) for Texier.

But, with all our cap space and wanting to acquire Duchene or another skilled player- We acquired nothing. Bought out Scott Hartnell a bit later.

You say that so matter of factly as if it was obvious that Karlsson would have the season he's having and that Vegas would be as good as they are..

You have to keep one of two players..

One played 82 games and scored 18 goals and had 16 assists at 23 years old, already had a 30G season and a letter on his jersey...

The other played 81 games, scored 6 goals and 19 assists for 25 points, which was his career high and is a year older...



Who are you chosing...

 

[CBJx614]

Scott Hartnell - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

He did. An NMC. No Movement Contract. No trade. No minors. No Nuthin (which is about how Jarmo was with his expansion draft decisions).

The exposure of Karlsson and the protection of Boone Jenner and Murray is a huge indictment of the FO. It's as if they didn't notice the game getting faster.

Thanks.


Just doesn't make sense to me why they wouldn't be like Hey Scottie, gonna buy you out anyway, mind waiving so we can send you to Vegas?

Worst that happens is he says no. The reason they didn't is I would guess they already had the deal in place before they knew for sure they were going to buy out Hartnell... That's the only thing that makes sense in my head.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

How the Vegas Golden Knights became the best NHL expansion team in 50 years

Interesting read and full of CBJ stuff.

It's remarkable that the Nathan Horton blankup had ramifications in this draft.

 

[hardkorejackets]

You say that so matter of factly as if it was obvious that Karlsson would have the season he's having and that Vegas would be as good as they are..

You have to keep one of two players..

One played 82 games and scored 18 goals and had 16 assists at 23 years old, already had a 30G season and a letter on his jersey...

The other played 81 games, scored 6 goals and 19 assists for 25 points, which was his career high and is a year older...



Who are you chosing...

Sorry, it wasn't a matter of fact. This is in retrospect. I should have phrased it better. I didn't foresee the offensive outbreak by Karlsson. I thought he was a #3 Center personally. I'd have protected Jenner, Wennberg. But, I do believe the expansion draft was a whiff by Jarmo, which is what I was hinting at. We missed on the evaluation of Karlsson, and probably made the trade too early.

This was me venting in retrospect of what could have been.

As to why, we didn't expose Hartnell- We probably had a "gentleman's deal" with Vegas back maybe as early in January of February of 2017 that we didn't want to back out on with the details worked out. I think Portzline has even hinted at such. Since, we had a deal in place so early- It doesn't really matter who we protect.

 

[Theo Von]

I haven't been very critical of Jarmo to date... But, the Vegas Expansion Draft was pretty much a whiff by Jarmo and our front office...
First, we agreed to the trade with Vegas- Danny Clarkson, 1st round pick, 2nd round pick, William Karlsson. We decided to protect Boone Jenner and Scott Hartnell. We told them to take William Karlsson (a 30 goal scorer, 1st line C for them now), a 1st round pick-Kristian Vesalainen, and a 2nd round pick in 2019. Shoot, we have 19.8 million in cap space currently... Was it really a necessity to trade Danny Clarkson and buy out Scott Hartnell?
At least Vegas decided to give us the 2nd round pick for Kolesar (ECHL player currently) for Texier.

But, with all our cap space and wanting to acquire Duchene or another skilled player- We acquired nothing. Bought out Scott Hartnell a bit later.

Who’s Danny Clarkson?

 

[MoeBartoli]

You say that so matter of factly as if it was obvious that Karlsson would have the season he's having and that Vegas would be as good as they are..

You have to keep one of two players..

One played 82 games and scored 18 goals and had 16 assists at 23 years old, already had a 30G season and a letter on his jersey...

The other played 81 games, scored 6 goals and 19 assists for 25 points, which was his career high and is a year older...



Who are you chosing...

Your question of "who are you choosing" is fair. Not being a Jenner fan, I thought he was a candidate to be exposed, but my thinking wasn't so much about protecting Bill. In handsight it's a FO miss.

But there's one other element to this. Had steps been taken to keep him, the whole conversation would be from a diffent perspective as I suspect he'd be a 10-12 goal player showing none of the offensive spark we've seen from him as a Golden Knight. And this whole debate would never have emerged.....Speculation, yes, but that's my take.

 

[blahblah]

Foligno has a NMC. I understand the line of thinking, but it even if management wasn't fully in love with Foligno, that NMC still would have gotten in the way of things

Yes, I mentioned at the time they should ask him to waive it.

 

[KJ Dangler]

I stopped at "You have to re-sign Bob and Panarin". That's traditional thinking and I'm not traditional. To illustrate I mentioned protecting WK and exposing Foligno. Good luck.

Frankly I would be doing everything I could NOT to have to re-sign Bob. He's on the other side of 30 in a few short months. Let someone else pay him 8+ million for 6+ years. As far as Panarin, it would depend on his demands. He's not our franchise winger. We can't afford to pay him like one. He's elite, but I see no evidence he's going to carry this team. We would need complementary pieces around him.

If I get bored I'll give my views as I think about them. I can tell you that there would be a lot of turnover.

Yep, I agree with you. No goalie is worth 7 million, let alone 8-10 million. Especially a goalie that’s close to 30 , has had multiple groin injuries, and melts down come playoffs . Had the jackets been to multiple finals, and we achieved something , their could be more of a conversation, but if we’re planning 3 years out , no way is Bob in the plans . Now Panarin is an absolute must sign in my eyes And Werenski will be entering his last year of his deal as well, and that will probably be 7 mill per season as well.

 

[Sore Loser]

Yep, I agree with you. No goalie is worth 7 million, let alone 8-10 million. Especially a goalie that’s close to 30 , has had multiple groin injuries, and melts down come playoffs . Had the jackets been to multiple finals, and we achieved something , their could be more of a conversation, but if we’re planning 3 years out , no way is Bob in the plans . Now Panarin is an absolute must sign in my eyes And Werenski will be entering his last year of his deal as well, and that will probably be 7 mill per season as well.

Without Bobrovsky, how many of those 2-1 games this year were 5-2 losses? Including last night.

While I get the line of thinking - spend more money on other positions - which free agents do you see us signing over the last several years that would have been upgrades?

Fact of the matter is, you can't just go out and get a Sidney Crosby or Patrick Kane. Artemi Panarin even being available shocked EVERYONE. And he was maybe the third best forward on the Hawks. In today's NHL, you have to draft and develop from within. Nikita Kucherov is maybe the best current example. Tampa gave him time and patience, and he is now a superstar player signed long-term for them.

We are a team built around a superstar goalie, some high end defensemen, and a handful of skilled but not elite forwards. Not signing Bob to the contract he deserves does not immediately allow us to get better, unless someone like Tavares WANTS to sign here. Which, lack of talent within, may prove near impossible.

Not signing Bobrovsky makes this team worse in the immediate, with no future other than hopes of using freed up money to find improvements elsewhere.

No thanks. I don't like the team the way it is, any more than anyone else on this board. But no Bobrovsky means we are competing with Buffalo and Ottawa for the bottom of the conference. If that's the case, good luck attracting top end talent or even retaining a guy like Panarin.

 

[Sore Loser]

Tl;dr: star players are too hard to come by. We have one in Bobrovsky. Until Korpisalo proves capable of being an every day starter, you give Bob the money he deserves.

 

[blahblah]

as I said, traditional lines of thinking. If you have a good team defense, average goalies become good goalies - good goalies become great. We will end up paying for not being able to develop goalies. Sad really.

The reality is, as good as Bob is he resume doesn't rate anywhere close to the best goalies to ever play the game. Yet, we want to pay him like one. To each their own I guess.

 

[Sore Loser]

as I said, traditional lines of thinking. If you have a good team defense, average goalies become good goalies - good goalies become great. We will end up paying for not being able to develop goalies. Sad really.

The reality is, as good as Bob is he resume doesn't rate anywhere close to the best goalies to ever play the game. Yet, we want to pay him like one. To each their own I guess.

May be old thinking, but he is literally the only reason they have been competitive for the last 12 months. Letting him walk is like starting completely over.