If I'm Jarmo, I'm planning out for 3 years. Here's What's needed

mikeyp24

Registered User
Jun 28, 2014
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Look at some of these contracts, especially their length,
and Dubinsky's don't look as bad.

Seabrook at nearly 7 million for 6 more years, now that's BAD!

screen-shot-2018-03-10-at-2-57-09-pm-png.103843
People shat on me for saying it the day he signed but the Lucic deal is Clarkson 2.0... it's bad. Really bad.
 
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mikeyp24

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Jun 28, 2014
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Yeah. That 25th (out of 31) PK:laugh:

Dubinsky has no points in his last 15 games. He's -6 in those games. He's been stripped of his asst. captaincy. He's been sent home from the team for who knows what-but it had to be a pretty bad. He got his face caved in so bad that he probably can never fight again.

He's averaging 0.28 points per game. 12th among CBJ forwards. That's the equivalent to the worst 4th liner.

NHL.com - Stats

He's a bigger liability than Umberger was and he's not going to get better. He's going to get worse.

3 more years left at almost $6 million per. A real bargain. Nothing like having an aging 4th liner who is deemed incapable of being an assistant captain and is the lowest point producing forward (PPG) being the 3rd highest paid player on the team.

He's been in rapid decline for 2 seasons. He's barely an NHLer anymore. Running around like a chicken with his head cut off in his defensive zone doesn't make him a good defensive player. It makes him a player who can't generate any offense and who stifles other's offense so he's always in his own zone.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Bobby Ryan for Dubinsky trade. Ottawa would retain $700,000 per year on the first 3 years of Ryan's contract (4 years remaining compared to 3 for Dubinsky). Each team would have a $6.55 million cap hit and cash expenditure for those 3 years. The Jackets would be on the hook for the $7.25 million of the last year which effectively can't be bought out due to the bonus portion of the contract. Ryan is producing at a bit better than 0.50 PPG and while he's in decline, he's not finished like Dubinsky. It's about the only possible trade that I can envision. If something like this can't be worked out, then the CBJ will just have to bite the bullet and buy the bum out. The owner of the Senators is a notorious penny pincher and saving $7.25 million (or more if he immediately buys Dubinsky out) could make the deal a real possibility. I want 4 free Lexus seat season tickets courtesy of Eugene Melnyk if this happens with the terms I've outlined.
I write this season off because injury. Last year he finished incredibly strong and played the pens perfect. Actually Crosby was so bad Dubi was moved over to Malkin who started the series Pejorative Slured strong and helped actually slow him down. This year everyone went cold after the Murray injury. But that's when cam went down and all that as well. The A being removed was so he didn't have to worry about it so much. Torts said he almost did the same to Fligs before so they could stop worrying about leading everyone else and fix yourself. He wasn't sent home for anything bad he asked to go home to deal with personal issues he confirmed it. AP just reported a reckless and wrong story which was nothing new. He has been great on the 4th line taking faceoffs though. I'm not worried about his scoring we never depended on Dubi for points but to stop points and hes been great on the 4th with test tube and Matty Ice.

Like the bus has said over and over not giving up points is just as important as getting points. While many people are pissed we aren't scoring a ton I'm fine with that I like defensive blue collar hockey and Torts style of coaching. I don't need 4 goals I need a W and if 5.5mil Dubi on the 4th gets us Ws perfect. Who would we rather have on the 4th line? We don't want to waste Stenlund on the 4th and ruin his development. Sedlak has regressed. PLD and Wennberg are ideally 1 and 2 but have been 1 and 3. Letestu is a 4th line at best. Anyone we would trade for would not be any better.

The Bobby Ryan thing if they took Dubi and retained sure but 7mil for 4 years is just way too much and I'm still a HUGE Ryan fan. I just don't see that working out.
 

EDM

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Mar 8, 2008
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Wow are there seom amazingly bad contracts out there. Dubie does not look so bad in comparison.
 

MoeBartoli

Checkers-to-Jackets
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People shat on me for saying it the day he signed but the Lucic deal is Clarkson 2.0... it's bad. Really bad.

You beat me to it. That Lucic contract...:facepalm: Makes Dubi's golden in comparison.

Wow are there seom amazingly bad contracts out there. Dubie does not look so bad in comparison.

Mom: "Johnny, how did you do on your math test today?"
Johnny (with a smiling face): "Not too bad, mom. I got a D"
Mom: "A D?! That's not very good".
Johnny: "Oh, it's ok, mom. Some of the kids got Fs".
 

CBJx614

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May 25, 2012
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Tell me, who is our best defensive center?

Or name the 3 best defensive forwards on the team...

There is more to hockey than goals scored.

Our top line, while actually quite good/responsible defensively, is not best used in that "role". Dubois shouldn't be forced into "that" quite yet. A line with Milano and Bjorkstrand, like the 1st line, shouldn't be used in that "role" either. And while people like to hype up Wennberg's defensive ability when he isn't scoring, he's quite clearly our WORST defensive center on the roster, and worse as a "defensive center" than a few of our "wingers". Jenner/Foligno/Letestu/Dubi all better. Wennberg/Vanek in a defensive role would be a disaster.

While we CAN debate just HOW important of a "role" he plays, you cannot debate that he DOES PLAY AN IMPORTANT ROLE. And he is pretty clearly the best option.

The dude is probably paid 500k too much per year. If you think teams wouldn't be lining up to take him or sign him for 4.5-5 mil a year, you don't know what you are talking about.

So Dubi at 5.5 is terrible but you people loved Wisniewski at 5.5? Because of points?
When will people realize that playing center is a lot more than taking faceoffs, Wennberg is by far one of our best defensive centers, which is why he gets put out there time and time again even though he's abysmal on the dot.

That's why Jenner was put on his line 5v5(imo) Jenner might be one of our best players on the dot, but his actual center play is questionable, being out there to take draws for Wennberg but allowing Wennberg to still play "center"
 
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db2011

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Mom: "Johnny, how did you do on your math test today?"
Johnny (with a smiling face): "Not too bad, mom. I got a D"
Mom: "A D?! That's not very good".
Johnny: "Oh, it's ok, mom. Some of the kids got Fs".

Oh come on, Moe. Ds and Fs carry a different value than 5 million dollars does over time, especially when caps go up. That's a lazy metaphor you're using there.

I'm not saying, nor does it seem like anyone is saying, that Dubi's contract is good. I'll agree with you that it's a bad contract. I'll also agree with those who think having Dubi on the 4th line is a pretty good situation. The landscape changes every time the cap goes up, and seeing the other contracts that are worse than Dubi's illustrates that, doesn't it?
 

Cyclones Rock

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Jun 12, 2008
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He has been great on the 4th line taking faceoffs though. I'm not worried about his scoring we never depended on Dubi for points but to stop points and hes been great on the 4th with test tube and Matty Ice.

Like the bus has said over and over not giving up points is just as important as getting points.

Show me some evidence of how Dubi "stops points".
 

absolute garbage

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Jan 22, 2006
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As of now, I don't see a burning need to get rid of Dubinsky's contract. Things could change of course if Jarmo finds ways to make improvements, but right now there's no real need for that surplus of money in the summer. That will change in 2019, but at that point the buyout will be easier too. That's why I wouldn't be interested in the Ryan swap. That contract is much tougher to buyout.

But I'm still on the controversial "trade Bobrovsky" train. With that in mind, here's my bold proposal for a draft day trade: Bobrovsky and Dubinsky to Buffalo for their 1st rounder (assuming it's so high that Jackets will get one of their top 3 ranked prospects) and Pominville (his Dubinsky-like bad contract expires in 2019).
 

thebus88

19/20 Columbus Blue Jackets: "It Is What It Is"
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When will people realize that playing center is a lot more than taking faceoffs, Wennberg is by far one of our best defensive centers, which is why he gets put out there time and time again even though he's abysmal on the dot.

That's why Jenner was put on his line 5v5(imo) Jenner might be one of our best players on the dot, but his actual center play is questionable, being out there to take draws for Wennberg but allowing Wennberg to still play "center"

Yeah and Dubi, and others, do many more things better than Wennberg, not just faceoffs.

"By far one of our best defensive centers"...? While I have issues with that comment in general, since teams have ONLY 4-5 C's, I just named 4 centers and 2 wingers that are (imo) clearly better than Wennberg defensively from the center position. I have illustrated over many GDT's when Wennberg (and sometimes Werenski) looks completely lost in the defensive zone, many of these times the puck ends up in the back of the net. I've put it like this in the past: "He seems to be everywhere and NOWHERE at the same time". How much did Dubi's injury and the lack of Letestu influence Wennberg getting "put out there time and time again"...? Even though you guys are ALWAYS hating on Jenner (even though he's been our best forward other than the "big 3" recently) , he, and the "pairing" of Wennberg/Vanek, while "trusted", are clearly being used in an offensive role.

1 of the few issues I have had with Torts is his usage of Wennberg (and Anderson/JJ) on the PK. The idea is that (mainly in the past) we've not had better options. I disagree with that fully, with or without Dubi and Letestu in the lineup. Wennberg has serious issues "reading plays" in the defensive zone and getting to the position he needs to be to successfully defend. And also, while he is a "strong" skater, and that helps him recover from his slow reads on defensive coverage/when to "switch men", he seems to have a very weak upper body. He gets beat/outmuscled in close/around the net a lot. His absolute LACK OF INTENSITY just highlights ALL of these problems.

Up a goal, full strength or on the PK, 30 secs to a minute left, I throw Dubi, Letestu, Dubois, Jenner, Foligno, and Sedlak in at C over Wennberg. Sedlak is a "poor mans" Anisimov, with an edge. Not to mention guys like Atkinson and Calvert who are better options (on the ice, not at C). I have a feeling down the stretch and into the playoffs, Wennberg is NOT going to be "put out there time and time again" in defensive situations.
 

Sore Loser

Sorest of them all
Dec 9, 2006
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As of now, I don't see a burning need to get rid of Dubinsky's contract. Things could change of course if Jarmo finds ways to make improvements, but right now there's no real need for that surplus of money in the summer. That will change in 2019, but at that point the buyout will be easier too. That's why I wouldn't be interested in the Ryan swap. That contract is much tougher to buyout.

But I'm still on the controversial "trade Bobrovsky" train. With that in mind, here's my bold proposal for a draft day trade: Bobrovsky and Dubinsky to Buffalo for their 1st rounder (assuming it's so high that Jackets will get one of their top 3 ranked prospects) and Pominville (his Dubinsky-like bad contract expires in 2019).

No way Buffalo goes for that. Goaltending issues aside, a top-5 pick is far more valuable than a pending UFA goalie who is turning 30 this year. That's the kind of move that gets a GM fired.
 

absolute garbage

Registered User
Jan 22, 2006
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No way Buffalo goes for that. Goaltending issues aside, a top-5 pick is far more valuable than a pending UFA goalie who is turning 30 this year. That's the kind of move that gets a GM fired.
With a long term extension agreed upon though? They are desperate to start winning games. Would be kinda similar-ish to the Schneider and Stepan+Raanta deals from recent years.
 

Cyclones Rock

Registered User
Jun 12, 2008
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How bout YOU give an example of evidence of anybody (pick 1 of Poille superstar d men) "stopping points".

What "stat" could be used? Inform me.
You are what is called a gnostic. You just "know" things. There are plenty of stats out there. Find one. Or just keep up your silly "he stops points" narrative based on nothing.

It's amazing how you "know" more than the coaching staff. They're sitting-according to you-the second best defenseman. Again.
 

thebus88

19/20 Columbus Blue Jackets: "It Is What It Is"
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Yeah. That 25th (out of 31) PK:laugh:

Dubinsky has no points in his last 15 games. He's -6 in those games. He's been stripped of his asst. captaincy. He's been sent home from the team for who knows what-but it had to be a pretty bad. He got his face caved in so bad that he probably can never fight again.

He's a bigger liability than Umberger was and he's not going to get better. He's going to get worse.

3 more years left at almost $6 million per. A real bargain. Nothing like having an aging 4th liner who is deemed incapable of being an assistant captain and is the lowest point producing forward (PPG) being the 3rd highest paid player on the team.

He's been in rapid decline for 2 seasons. He's barely an NHLer anymore. Running around like a chicken with his head cut off in his defensive zone doesn't make him a good defensive player. It makes him a player who can't generate any offense and who stifles other's offense so he's always in his own zone.

Checking the game log, I love how you went back exactly 15 games? Why not 17 or 12? What is the teams record the past 15-20 games with Dubi playing? I also love how you LOVE to use the word "stripped" when it comes to the 'A'. You have no idea what has happened, and how much or how little it actually affects the team, and Dubi STILL HAS A HUGE LEADERSHIP ROLE, 'A' or not. Also, this idea that he was "sent home from the team", is pretty disingenuous. He HAD JUST joined the team, in order to play a single "warm up" game before the all-star break. I'm not happy about it, but lets not make it seem like he was sent home at the beginning of a long roadtrip because his "heart fluttered" over the summer or he was "tired", like what DID HAPPEN with Jojo. He literally missed 1 game, that was never really set in stone that he was going to play anyways.

The Umberger comment/comparison is pretty bad. You definitely lose some of the "credibility" you have there.

The fact that you think Dubi and Murray are "barely NHLers" says enough really.
 
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Cyclones Rock

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Checking the game log, I love how you went back exactly 15 games? Why not 17 or 12? What is the teams record the past 15-20 games with Dubi playing? I also love how you LOVE to use the word "stripped" when it comes to the 'A'. You have no idea what has happened, and how much or how little it actually affects the team, and Dubi STILL HAS A HUGE LEADERSHIP ROLE, 'A' or not. Also, this idea that he was "sent home from the team", is pretty disingenuous. He HAD JUST joined the team, in order to play a single "warm up" game before the all-star break. I'm not happy about it, but lets not make it seem like he was sent home at the beginning of a long roadtrip because his "heart fluttered" over the summer or he was "tired", like what DID HAPPEN with Jojo. He literally missed 1 game, that was never really set in stone that he was going to play anyways.

The Umberger comment/comparison is pretty bad. You definitely lose some of the "credibility" you have there.

The fact that you think Dubi and Murray are "barely NHLers" says enough really.

Love how you minimize Dubinsky's obvious character issues. Getting stripped mid season of a captaincy rarely happens. Johansen happens to be an Assistant Captain of his team, which by the way, could very well win the Presidents Trophy.

Dubinsky has fallen off the charts this entire season in terms of scoring productivity. This comes off the heels of a bad season last year. He's finished. Players reach the end of the road. Dubinsky is a border line NHLer now. He's fallen off just like Umberger did. When players hit that wall, they're done. That's just the reality of what happens.

He's not going to get better and, in the absence of guaranteed contracts, the CBJ would have cut him this year already.

Oh, and where is the evidence that he "stops goals" ?
 
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The Jones Zone

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Nov 27, 2013
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Regardless of how the season ends, Torts in going to look Dubinsky right in the face during his exit interview and tell him if he wants to be part of the league going forward He better work his ass off in the off season.....and behave himself assuming there is truth to Portzline's "story" as we know it at this time.

You can take that to the bank.

________________________________________________________

I expect him to still be a Jacket next season, and continue on the 4th line if He doesn't pick up his game. After next year, Hartnell and Tyutin's buyout's will be low enough they can buy out Dubinsky's last 2 years if that's what best for the team. Personally I hope that doesn't happen, I'm still a Dubi fan.

#CBJ
 

MoeBartoli

Checkers-to-Jackets
Jan 12, 2011
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Oh come on, Moe. Ds and Fs carry a different value than 5 million dollars does over time, especially when caps go up. That's a lazy metaphor you're using there.

I'm not saying, nor does it seem like anyone is saying, that Dubi's contract is good. I'll agree with you that it's a bad contract. I'll also agree with those who think having Dubi on the 4th line is a pretty good situation. The landscape changes every time the cap goes up, and seeing the other contracts that are worse than Dubi's illustrates that, doesn't it?
Actually db2011, I agree with pretty much everything you said.

Indeed I was lazy - not in the metaphor, but in not typing out the decimal points which I should have done to reflect Dubi's true cost of $5.85M instead of just $5M. (Oh well, it kind of encompasses the changing inflationary landscape you mention).

As you say, Dubi's contract is not good. (I think bad, but "not good" will work. And I agree it's nice having him onthe 4th line. It's just I can't imagine a GM feeling comfortable having almost $6M tied up in a 4th liner and my guess is GMJK is looking at all possible angles, however limited, to change that dynamic.
 
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The Jones Zone

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Nov 27, 2013
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Raleigh, NC
Actually db2011, I agree with pretty much everything you said.

Indeed I was lazy - not in the metaphor, but in not typing out the decimal points which I should have done to reflect Dubi's true cost of $5.85M instead of just $5M. (Oh well, it kind of encompasses the changing inflationary landscape you mention).

As you say, Dubois contract is not good. (I think bad, but "not good" will work. And I agree it's nice having him onthe 4th line. It's just I can't imagine a GM feeling comfortable having almost $6M tied up in a 4th liner and my guess is GMJK is looking at all possible angles, however limited, to change that dynamic.

I have no problem with PLD's contract
 
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thebus88

19/20 Columbus Blue Jackets: "It Is What It Is"
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I have no problem with PLD's contract

Typo I'd guess.

Lets change the subject.

Dubois > Johansen

At the/this "same stage" of development, its hard to argue against Dubois at this point. LITERALLY CRAZY the heat that Jarmo and Co. got at the time of, and WELL AFTER the pick. Just how good this dude can be is exciting to think about.

Essentially "no difference" in actual "skill", but Dubois is superior in many other aspects, both tangible and intangible.
 
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mikeyp24

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Love how you minimize Dubinsky's obvious character issues. Getting stripped mid season of a captaincy rarely happens. Johansen happens to be an Assistant Captain of his team, which by the way, could very well win the Presidents Trophy.

Dubinsky has fallen off the charts this entire season in terms of scoring productivity. This comes off the heels of a bad season last year. He's finished. Players reach the end of the road. Dubinsky is a border line NHLer now. He's fallen off just like Umberger did. When players hit that wall, they're done. That's just the reality of what happens.

He's not going to get better and, in the absence of guaranteed contracts, the CBJ would have cut him this year already.

Oh, and where is the evidence that he "stops goals" ?
What character issues? Has Torts sat him healthy after coming back from injury that I'm unaware of? Is he taking plays off in the ice being benched for entire periods? Is he questioning the character of players family members in the crowd? Is he dancing in the lockerroom of a team in the cup finals doing interviews about being happy he's not on the ice stressing about the game while he's "hurt". Oh wait oops wrong guy you were talking about I thought you were talking about the other C who' scoring productivity has fallen off a cliff and is completely overpaid on a bad contract.

And to your evidence... there's no evidence that anyone stops goals... If you watch a game you can see hey this guy when he's out there the other team struggles offensively as opposed when other guys are. Go ask people who don't watch CBJ games if Panarin is a Selke caliber forward and they will likely laugh at you and ask if you meant a different award or state Panarin isn't a defensive forward but he was 2nd in the league at one point in take aways Idk where he is now. But Panarin would be top 3 this year if it wasn't for them not considering wingers because FO% which is stupid because that IMO has NOTHING to do with defensive play.
 

CBJWerenski8

Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
Jun 13, 2009
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Typo I'd guess.

Lets change the subject.

Dubois > Johansen

At the/this "same stage" of development, its hard to argue against Dubois at this point. LITERALLY CRAZY the heat that Jarmo and Co. got at the time of, and WELL AFTER the pick. Just how good this dude can be is exciting to think about.

Essentially "no difference" in actual "skill", but Dubois is superior in many other aspects, both tangible and intangible.

Yes, Dubois at 19/20 is far superior than Johansen was at the same age. No denying that.
 

db2011

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Oct 10, 2011
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Brooklyn
Actually db2011, I agree with pretty much everything you said.

Indeed I was lazy - not in the metaphor, but in not typing out the decimal points which I should have done to reflect Dubi's true cost of $5.85M instead of just $5M. (Oh well, it kind of encompasses the changing inflationary landscape you mention).

As you say, Dubi's contract is not good. (I think bad, but "not good" will work. And I agree it's nice having him onthe 4th line. It's just I can't imagine a GM feeling comfortable having almost $6M tied up in a 4th liner and my guess is GMJK is looking at all possible angles, however limited, to change that dynamic.

Moe B, have you gone full snark??

Sure, ok, maybe GMJK is doing that. I guess I wouldn’t be surprised. But why are you fixated on that? It won’t happen before the much more important matter of the 2018 playoffs happen, so ...? At the moment our 4th line contains an overpaid but quite capable player, and our team is in the playoff chase. What is the point you're trying to make here?
 
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mikeyp24

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2 more things to add.

#1 Dustin Brown this year is a perfect example of a player being accused of being done and a bad contract being extremely productive to their team after he was "stripped" of his captaincy non the less.

#2 I've been saying for a while to people saying we can't trade Savard because we have 2 RHD that handedness doesn't always matter if younhave a lefty who plays great right side that's just as good. I'm not for putting random lefties on that side just because we have say 5 great LHD and 1 great RHD and an average one so just bench the average guy no but if a Nuti can play with Murray they way they do that's great. Jones/Z/Nuti/Murray as top 4 is loaded then say Cole/Kukan/Carlson for the bottom pair works just fine for me. TBL fans have seemed open to a Savard based Tyler Johnson trade. Imagine keeping the PB&J line together with Anderson healthy next year and then a 2nd line of Milano/TJ/Cam... that speed could kill defenses on break outs. Just saying be open minded when it comes to moving Savard when it comes to geting another legit C.
 

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