HFBoards Top 32 Centers - #3

[crosby87]

I still got Sid #2. Did you guys not watch the POs?

crosby was definitely #2+ this playoffs in round 1 but you can't get enough data from 1 round

 

[Mrb1p]

crosby was definitely #2+ this playoffs in round 1 but you can't get enough data from 1 round

I mean we have 1000 games of data of him being a generational talent, him posting the best 34 yo season of all time (I think) and then he follows it up with one of the most dominant first round ive ever seen. Top it all off with generic Crosby qualities, I have a hard time seeing people rank Draisaitl ahead of him. I mean maybe Matthews because of the year he just had but Mackinnon and Drai? No chance.

 

[Duke74]

Drai benefited from mcdavid so much this playoff. He was barely noticeable at times in the Calgary series but shows up with 4 points on the score sheet thanks to McDavid taking over.

Funny how in the game that eliminated Calgary, Draisaitl had four points, three of them primary, including setting up the GWG while falling, yet McDavid had just one (albeit a vital one).

MacKinnon (21-22 playoffs): 24 points, 10 points (42%) of which Makar factored in on.
Draisaitl (21-22 playoffs): 32 points, 22 points (69%) of which McDavid factored in on.

Cool. Now add Rantanen and Landescog. Meanwhile, Draisaitl has...Kailer Yamamoto as his most frequent linemate. It simply blows my mind that this narrative still exists....

 

[Duke74]

Mack is 3rd in ppg for both the regular season and playoffs over the last 3 years.

I've seen you post some bad takes but this might be your worst.



Yeah that poster is just talking nonsense.

Mack is definitely better.

I mean, imagine him with mcdavid. It would be insane.

Right. Mac is THIRD in playoff PPG. Know who's first? This is since Mac joined the league:

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

 

[Mrb1p]

Drai benefited from mcdavid so much this playoff. He was barely noticeable at times in the Calgary series but shows up with 4 points on the score sheet thanks to McDavid taking over.

Why did you vote for Matthews #2 if youre going to bring up the POs? Is it Carey Price playing like the best player in the world or Matthews not being that good? Unsure.

 

[Haatley]

Why did you vote for Matthews #2 if youre going to bring up the POs? Is it Carey Price playing like the best player in the world or Matthews not being that good? Unsure.

I um... voted MacKinnon.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Cool. Now add Rantanen and Landescog. Meanwhile, Draisaitl has...Kailer Yamamoto as his most frequent linemate. It simply blows my mind that this narrative still exists....

MacKinnon spent the majority of his ice time with Landeskog (65%), second most was Rantanen (57%), third most was Nichushkin (43%).

MacKinnon (21-22 playoffs): 24 points
9 points (38%) of which Rantanen factored in on.
6 points (25%) of which Landeskog factored in on.
5 points (21%) of which Nichushkin factored in on.

------------------------------------------------------

Draisaitl spent the majority of his ice time with McDavid (67%), second most was Hyman (48%), third most was Kane (26%). Yamamoto, whom you mentioned, was lower (25%).

Draisaitl (21-22 playoffs): 32 points
22 points (69%) of which McDavid factored in on.
8 points (25%) of which Hyman factored in on.
6 points (19%) of which Kane factored in on.
2 points (6%) of which Yamamoto factored in on.

------------------------------------------------------

In sumary:

Draisaitl spent the greatest amount of time playing with McDavid (67%)
MacKinnon spent the greatest amount of time playing with Landeskog (65%)

Draisaitl generated the majority of his points playing with McDavid (69%)
MacKinnon generated the majority of his points playing with Rantanen (38%)

------------------------------------------------------

So I guess the question is: Would a player benefit more playing with Connor McDavid or Gabriel Landeskog?

 

[Mrb1p]

I um... voted MacKinnon.

My apologies, I wanted to destroy a Leaf homer today.

 

[Haatley]

My apologies, I wanted to destroy a Leaf homer today.

I'm the opposite of that.

 

[Mrb1p]

I'm the opposite of that.

My apologies, as I said. I saw the Toronto location and pounced on prey.

 

[abo9]

I think even if you asked Oilers fans they’d admit that McDavid and Draisaitl underwhelmed in that series, outside of the final game. Particularly Draisaitl.



Draisaitl was fantastic in the first two rounds, but was mostly invisible against Colorado, sans game 4. MacKinnon played a complete two-way game was the second best player on a cup winning team. That means more to me than the excellent performance from Draisaitl in the first two rounds.

Switch Drai and Mack on their respective teams and the outcome is likely the same.

Idk, it was 4 games. Doesnt erases hundreds of other games

 

[abo9]

I mean we have 1000 games of data of him being a generational talent, him posting the best 34 yo season of all time (I think) and then he follows it up with one of the most dominant first round ive ever seen. Top it all off with generic Crosby qualities, I have a hard time seeing people rank Draisaitl ahead of him. I mean maybe Matthews because of the year he just had but Mackinnon and Drai? No chance.

I'm doing age-ism here. That Rangers-Pens series ended up a bummer with the most decisive moment being Crosby's injury.

I just cant believe that Crosby is still hanging out with those younger stars who all excel in their own ways. He was definitely still up there in the tier with Mack and Drai last season.

But injury risks and age... is why I put him behind the other two.

Career wise its not really close though

 

[Mrb1p]

I'm doing age-ism here. That Rangers-Pens series ended up a bummer with the most decisive moment being Crosby's injury.

I just cant believe that Crosby is still hanging out with those younger stars who all excel in their own ways. He was definitely still up there in the tier with Mack and Drai last season.

But injury risks and age... is why I put him behind the other two.

Career wise its not really close though

Injuries always play a role with Crosby, but the other side of the coin of him heing a GOAT generational talent with the IQ of 3000 Nathan Mackinnon combined is also heavy on the balance.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Right. Mac is THIRD in playoff PPG. Know who's first? This is since Mac joined the league:

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

After macks first 37 playoff games he had 51 points. That's without mcdavid. Let's see drai average 1.5ppg over the next 33 games.

That poster said Mack is the most overrated rated player in the league. That is blatantly false.

 

[PainForShane]

Switch Drai and Mack on their respective teams and the outcome is likely the same.

Idk, it was 4 games. Doesnt erases hundreds of other games

Depends, if we had a time machine and switched them 3 or 4 years ago imo it's a different conversation.

MacK is a Kobe Bryant / Mark Messier-level psycho. Personal chef, doesn't drink pop, yells at his teammates every time they mess up in practice etc. Great player on the ice but seems like he has an even bigger impact on his teammates. The perfect guy for a team that goes from bad to contender (like both COL and EDM these past few years) because he makes his teammates better.

If MacK were on the Oilers (instead of Drai) would the Oilers be a better team (esp in the playoffs)? We'll never really know, but I think so. At the very least it's a factor that needs to be considered

 

[HabzSauce]

We saw what drai was able to do with one leg. Imagine he had both.

For me right now it's Drai over Mak

 

[Duke74]

After macks first 37 playoff games he had 51 points. That's without mcdavid. Let's see drai average 1.5ppg over the next 33 games.

That poster said Mack is the most overrated rated player in the league. That is blatantly false.

And Draisaitl has 59. Without a defensemen anything close to the caliber of Makar. Without wingers as good as Rantanen and Landy. On an isolated basis, McDavid is the best player, but Mac has always had a much stronger team around him. After McDavid, the talent around Draisaitl drops off pretty steeply.

BTW, I don't think Mac is the most overrated player in the league. He's a great player. Top 10 if not Top 5. But I am tired of the narrative that Draisaitl is useless without McDavid.

 

[Duke74]

MacKinnon spent the majority of his ice time with Landeskog (65%), second most was Rantanen (57%), third most was Nichushkin (43%).

MacKinnon (21-22 playoffs): 24 points
9 points (38%) of which Rantanen factored in on.
6 points (25%) of which Landeskog factored in on.
5 points (21%) of which Nichushkin factored in on.

------------------------------------------------------

Draisaitl spent the majority of his ice time with McDavid (67%), second most was Hyman (48%), third most was Kane (26%). Yamamoto, whom you mentioned, was lower (25%).

Draisaitl (21-22 playoffs): 32 points
22 points (69%) of which McDavid factored in on.
8 points (25%) of which Hyman factored in on.
6 points (19%) of which Kane factored in on.
2 points (6%) of which Yamamoto factored in on.

------------------------------------------------------

In sumary:

Draisaitl spent the greatest amount of time playing with McDavid (67%)
MacKinnon spent the greatest amount of time playing with Landeskog (65%)

Draisaitl generated the majority of his points playing with McDavid (69%)
MacKinnon generated the majority of his points playing with Rantanen (38%)

------------------------------------------------------

So I guess the question is: Would a player benefit more playing with Connor McDavid or Gabriel Landeskog?

Again, McDavid in isolation is the best player on both teams. But, as I mentioned to another poster, MacKinnon has a much better talent pool around him than Draisaitl. Past those two Oiler stars, the talent level drops off steeply, although it has gotten slightly better in the last year.

 

[Connor McConnor]

MacKinnon spent the majority of his ice time with Landeskog (65%), second most was Rantanen (57%), third most was Nichushkin (43%).

MacKinnon (21-22 playoffs): 24 points
9 points (38%) of which Rantanen factored in on.
6 points (25%) of which Landeskog factored in on.
5 points (21%) of which Nichushkin factored in on.

------------------------------------------------------

Draisaitl spent the majority of his ice time with McDavid (67%), second most was Hyman (48%), third most was Kane (26%). Yamamoto, whom you mentioned, was lower (25%).

Draisaitl (21-22 playoffs): 32 points
22 points (69%) of which McDavid factored in on.
8 points (25%) of which Hyman factored in on.
6 points (19%) of which Kane factored in on.
2 points (6%) of which Yamamoto factored in on.

------------------------------------------------------

In sumary:

Draisaitl spent the greatest amount of time playing with McDavid (67%)
MacKinnon spent the greatest amount of time playing with Landeskog (65%)

Draisaitl generated the majority of his points playing with McDavid (69%)
MacKinnon generated the majority of his points playing with Rantanen (38%)

------------------------------------------------------

So I guess the question is: Would a player benefit more playing with Connor McDavid or Gabriel Landeskog?

What a stupid long winded jumble of stats that ignores the simple fact that MacK plays on a LINE with Rants/Landeskog and Makar feeding him on the backend, RS and POs.

So you are saying McDavid is equal to 3 players now? Even if he is, why are you just focusing on the playoffs where Drai outproduced MacK on one leg and fewer games played, and not the RS where Drai has ALSO outproduced MacK the past 3 years while centering his own line for a good chunk of it while MacK plays on a stacked line at all times?

So I guess the question is: how much does MacK benefit from playing on a line consisting of Rantanen/Landeskog/Makar/Toews compared to Drai getting McDavid in the Playoffs because he's playing on one leg and can't take faceoffs anymore or drive his own line?

 

[Blacephalon]

Drai is better than MacKinnon is basically every way with stats and hardware to prove it and Avs fans are still arguing lol

MacKinnon. Both he and Draisaitl should be ahead of Matthews anyways.

Matthews is easily better than MacKinnon. Try to be less of a homer pal.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

What a stupid long winded jumble of stats that ignores the simple fact that MacK plays on a LINE with Rants/Landeskog and Makar feeding him on the backend, RS and POs.

So you are saying McDavid is equal to 3 players now? Even if he is, why are you just focusing on the playoffs where Drai outproduced MacK on one leg and fewer games played, and not the RS where Drai has ALSO outproduced MacK the past 3 years while centering his own line for a good chunk of it while MacK plays on a stacked line at all times?

So I guess the question is: how much does MacK benefit from playing on a line consisting of Rantanen/Landeskog/Makar/Toews compared to Drai getting McDavid in the Playoffs because he's playing on one leg and can't take faceoffs anymore or drive his own line?

Because the discussion was playoffs, not regular season.

What a stupid long winded post for someone whom didn't read the thread and doesn't care about the context of my discussion (which was originally with @Gurglesons). I posted stats, open to interpretation and discussion, that's it. No need to be a .

 

[Gurglesons]

After macks first 37 playoff games he had 51 points. That's without mcdavid. Let's see drai average 1.5ppg over the next 33 games.

That poster said Mack is the most overrated rated player in the league. That is blatantly false.

Not really. People act like he is a defacto top three forward in the league which he has no legitimate claim to.

He’s never won an individual award. His best finishes have been in a media driven award and he isn’t even the best player on his team.

 

[Foppberg]

Matthews is easily better than MacKinnon. Try to be less of a homer pal.

MacKinnon & Drai are definitely better than AM.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Not really. People act like he is a defacto top three forward in the league which he has no legitimate claim to.

He’s never won an individual award. His best finishes have been in a media driven award and he isn’t even the best player on his team.

In fairness, he's sort of suffered the Crosby thing where a few of his seasons would have looked better in terms of point finishes if it weren't for injuries.

 

[Gurglesons]

In fairness, he's sort of suffered the Crosby thing where a few of his seasons would have looked better in terms of point finishes if it weren't for injuries.

That’s fair, but those were years ago too. He never did it and he hasn’t been the player he was in those three seasons in the last two.

Easily a top ten forward in the league and I love his game.