TV: (HBO) Westworld Season 2

[Emperoreddy]

I think big theme here is how hard it is actually to break out of a loop, whether you are a person or a host.

So I expect one reveal to be that Dolores and Maeve haven’t quite broke out of the loops Ford put them on.

 

[Osprey]

There are a number of hosts who have not met the standard that Wyatt has set for escaping the park.

One wonders if Teddy is failing that test as well, given his reluctance to put down the Confederados.

Teddy is definitely one of the dumbest hosts and most stuck in his original programming. William loves to tease him about it, like he did recently, pointing out that he's there simply to pick up a can and then watch guest after guest walk off with his girl. Of all of the hosts, he seems to be the least capable of "waking up." He's essentially just Dolores' dog, following her around and doing her bidding, not having a clue what she's really doing and probably incapable of understanding it even if he did. His usefulness to her is going to run out pretty quickly. She needs a more "awake" partner. It makes me wonder if she and Maeve will partner up once Maeve's daughter is found.

I think big theme here is how hard it is actually to break out of a loop, whether you are a person or a host.

So I expect one reveal to be that Dolores and Maeve haven’t quite broke out of the loops Ford put them on.

That's been my suspicion. I suspect that a reveal, even as late as Season 5, will be that the hosts have essentially been doing what Ford planned for them all along, all while thinking that they had rejected their programming and achieved self destiny. After all, Ford is to the hosts what God is to humans. Like how we may feel that we control our fate when God already knows what it is, the hosts believe that they have free will when they're really still just following their creator's programming. Perhaps only in Season 5 (if at all) will the hosts actually break out and be capable of things that Ford didn't anticipate.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I am still enamored with the showdown in the rain.

The confederado dancing with Lawrence’s wife was also a call back to William doing the same thing last season before killing her.

 

[The Gongshow]

Some of the time jumping is getting a bit confusing..

So we see a flashback that Bernard and the nerve hosts killed the other scientists and Bernard took the red ball thing (which allows them to put peoples minds or whatever into a host body)

So this happened when Ford was still alive and before the hosts turned on everyone right? And just before the MiB went back into the game for season 1..?

 

[The Gongshow]

This scene was also fantastic, Bernard looked absolutely terrifying

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Williams daughter is hotttt

 

[Blender]

Some of the time jumping is getting a bit confusing..

So we see a flashback that Bernard and the nerve hosts killed the other scientists and Bernard took the red ball thing (which allows them to put peoples minds or whatever into a host body)

So this happened when Ford was still alive and before the hosts turned on everyone right? And just before the MiB went back into the game for season 1..?

Yes it happened before Bernard shot himself, so a day or two before the gala at most.

 

[HanSolo]

Thanks. I knew that they became more real, but I wasn't sure if they were already shown as that real.



Hey, you're right. I just found the following wiki entry for her:

Emily

She's the young girl at the reception in Episode 2, the one who goes up to Dolores while she's playing the piano. Considering that the writers have introduced her in the past, it makes sense for them to eventually introduce an adult version of her in the present, but it's obviously a contradiction that she's named Emily and the guest in Episode 3 is credited (at least at imdb.com) as "Grace." Maybe her name is Emily Grace and she goes by her middle name as an adult, but the girl is also blonde and the adult guest is brunette, so it all seems to put a pretty big dent in the theory.

I was just going through past pages and I know we already know she's the daughter but the hair color change isn't a dent in a theory at all. Until I was around 13 I had blond hair. Now it's dark brown.

 

[HanSolo]

Well you guys guessed right with the daughter thing.

Even on its face it wasn't a tough guess. You've got this saavy and super capable character who seems to have no real plot relevance who escapes death and gets forced into Westworld, seemingly for a new story thread. There's not a lot of people in the park that she could be connected to. Being related to William just made sense. Knowing she's basically the last of his family alive gives William something to lose since he doesn't seem overly concerned with losing his life.

 

[Em etah Eh]

Teddy is definitely one of the dumbest hosts and most stuck in his original programming. William loves to tease him about it, like he did recently, pointing out that he's there simply to pick up a can and then watch guest after guest walk off with his girl. Of all of the hosts, he seems to be the least capable of "waking up." He's essentially just Dolores' dog, following her around and doing her bidding, not having a clue what she's really doing and probably incapable of understanding it even if he did. His usefulness to her is going to run out pretty quickly. She needs a more "awake" partner. It makes me wonder if she and Maeve will partner up once Maeve's daughter is found.

You woulda thought Dolores would have hooked Teddy up with a little more intelligence while she was showing him around the headquarters. I mean they already brought him up on one of the tablets to show him his many deaths. Could have bumped up some of his stats to make him a bit more useful while they were at it. She probably likes him the way he is though, simple and predictable.

 

[NyQuil]

You woulda thought Dolores would have hooked Teddy up with a little more intelligence while she was showing him around the headquarters. I mean they already brought him up on one of the tablets to show him his many deaths. Could have bumped up some of his stats to make him a bit more useful while they were at it. She probably likes him the way he is though, simple and predictable.

Technically, it's only been Maeve who has been messing with the personalities of the hosts IIRC.

Dolores may think that it is artificial and ultimately intrusive and hypocritical to change Teddy's personality using the tools provided.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Amazing episodes, really shows ep 1 and 3 as the fluff they really were. The Bernard and Elsie thing was a bit confusing, Bernard said that his actions we see with Elsie arent actually happening as we see them? So malfunctioning flashback Bernard is ahead of what we see with him and Elsie? The same as Dolores last season

I think big theme here is how hard it is actually to break out of a loop, whether you are a person or a host.

So I expect one reveal to be that Dolores and Maeve haven’t quite broke out of the loops Ford put them on.

Bernard specifically tells Maeve that her escape and self awareness is her narrative. I mean Dolores is supposed to be the only one who reached the center of the maze, was kind of the whole point of season 1. Since Maeve is just following her narrative I assume finding her daughter has some huge implication that Ford sent her on for a reason

 

[NyQuil]

Bernard specifically tells Maeve that her escape and self awareness is her narrative. I mean Dolores is supposed to be the only one who reached the center of the maze, was kind of the whole point of season 1. Since Maeve is just following her narrative I assume finding her daughter has some huge implication that Ford sent her on for a reason

I didn't know that finding her daughter was part of her narrative. I only knew that escaping the park was.

I thought the implication was that she was deliberately ignoring the narrative (as presented to her by Bernard) in pursuing her daughter when she left the train as opposed to escaping.

Now, as I said earlier, this begs the question of:

(a) Bernard telling her it was her narrative actually caused her to reject it (because she wanted to exercise her free will); and

(b) Saving her daughter was also part of her narrative elsewhere even though I'm pretty sure Bernard never mentioned it and it didn't appear in the screencap.

 

[Osprey]

You woulda thought Dolores would have hooked Teddy up with a little more intelligence while she was showing him around the headquarters. I mean they already brought him up on one of the tablets to show him his many deaths. Could have bumped up some of his stats to make him a bit more useful while they were at it. She probably likes him the way he is though, simple and predictable.

That's a good point, and I agree. She could boost his stats, but probably likes him the way that he is. If he were much cleverer, he might start to question what she's doing even more than he's already started to.

Technically, it's only been Maeve who has been messing with the personalities of the hosts IIRC.

Dolores may think that it is artificial and ultimately intrusive and hypocritical to change Teddy's personality using the tools provided.

Dolores and Bernard have both changed the personalities of hosts, too. Bernard made that one hostage taker into the quickest, noblest gun in the west and Dolores had Bernard make the Confederados (or whomever they were) a lot dumber and slower so that she could kill them all single-handedly. She may not feel comfortable changing the stats of someone that she's fond of, though. He's a friend and she may not want to risk changing him into someone else.

 

[NyQuil]

Dolores and Bernard have both changed the personalities of hosts, too. Bernard made that one hostage taker into the quickest, noblest gun in the west and Dolores had Bernard make the Confederados (or whomever they were) a lot dumber and slower so that she could kill them all single-handedly. She may not feel comfortable changing the stats of someone that she's fond of, though. He's a friend and she may not want to risk changing him into someone else.

That's right, Bernard certainly did. I still think of him as a human from time to time since he's been programming hosts from the beginning.

I don't remember Dolores making Bernard mess with the Confederados, so maybe I'm forgetting something. I do remember her bringing them back to life.

With respect to Teddy, I don't know if it's as much about risk as essentially turning into the very thing she's rebelling against. You're right in that the Confederados did not factor into her long-term perspective.

 

[Osprey]

Yes it happened before Bernard shot himself, so a day or two before the gala at most.

Yeah, it couldn't have occurred too long ago because the bodies appear to still be fresh and not smelling bad yet.

Amazing episodes, really shows ep 1 and 3 as the fluff they really were. The Bernard and Elsie thing was a bit confusing, Bernard said that his actions we see with Elsie arent actually happening as we see them? So malfunctioning flashback Bernard is ahead of what we see with him and Elsie? The same as Dolores last season

It has to be in the past because we see him killing those lab workers that he and Elsie find. That one worker is even still impaled. I think he's simply in the present with Elsie, but having flashbacks to when he was alone in the same location. It's sort of the reverse of Dolores last season, when she was alone and having flashbacks to having the company of others in those same locations.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

I didn't know that finding her daughter was part of her narrative. I only knew that escaping the park was.

I thought the implication was that she was deliberately ignoring the narrative (as presented to her by Bernard) in pursuing her daughter when she left the train as opposed to escaping.

Now, as I said earlier, this begs the question of:

(a) Bernard telling her it was her narrative actually caused her to reject it (because she wanted to exercise her free will); and

(b) Saving her daughter was also part of her narrative elsewhere even though I'm pretty sure Bernard never mentioned it and it didn't appear in the screencap.

She was interested in finding her daughter before Bernard informed her about her narrative, Felix looked up her location for her. I mean maybe you are right but it seemed to me like her narrative was for her to get on to the train and decide to get off for her daughter, she splits the tablet in half and interrupts Bernard before he reveals her entire narrative which is a classic storytelling technique to keep a twist hidden. I mean it could be wrong that is just how i interpreted it.

Yeah, it couldn't have occurred too long ago because the bodies appear to still be fresh and not smelling bad yet.



It has to be in the past because we see him killing those lab workers that he and Elsie find. That one worker is even still impaled. I think he's simply in the present with Elsie, but having flashbacks to when he was alone in the same location. It's sort of the reverse of Dolores last season, when she was alone and having flashbacks to having the company of others in those same locations.

At one point before Elsie shot the door he said something like "Im not here right now" because he couldnt communicate with her, implying he was remembering watching her blow open the door and it was not in real time, real time being him remembering from the "current" time line of 2 weeks after gala

 

[NyQuil]

At one point before Elsie shot the door he said something like "Im not here right now" because he couldnt communicate with her, implying he was remembering watching her blow open the door and it was not in real time, real time being him remembering from the "current" time line of 2 weeks after gala

One of the things I find compelling is the idea that hosts have total recall - meaning that it would be very difficult to distinguish between the present and your memories if everything is remembered with perfect clarity.

 

[Osprey]

At one point before Elsie shot the door he said something like "Im not here right now" because he couldnt communicate with her, implying he was remembering watching her blow open the door and it was not in real time, real time being him remembering from the "current" time line of 2 weeks after gala

That's a good catch. I went back to have a listen and I believe that what he says is "You're not here with me right now, are you?" He then mumbles to himself about trying to remember what "we" discovered there.

It seems to me like there are three timelines, then...

1st: Bernard visits the lab to create a control unit and kill the lab workers.
2nd: Bernard returns to the lab with Elsie, they find the dead lab workers and they learn something about the lab's purpose.
3rd: Bernard returns to the lab by himself and tries to remember what he and Elsie learned about it.

One of the things I find compelling is the idea that hosts have total recall - meaning that it would be very difficult to distinguish between the present and your memories if everything is remembered with perfect clarity.

That's what the addressing feature was designed to prevent, but it seems as though it got tampered with or corrupted in Bernard and Dolores, so those two can't keep their memories in proper sequence.

 

[Blender]

Bernard is lost in his memories right now in the same way Dolores was all of last season. The damage is just triggering it or making it worse for him. He has no idea what is going on.

 

[Blender]

The rehashed story and characters gag was pretty good.

Maeve has unlocked Ford's admin control it seems.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Wu Tang Clan!!!

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Soooo uhh.... Maeve.

Actually didn't even realize this until @Blender said something... Piggy-backing off that speculation of Bernard loading up the red ball into somebody, is it possible Ford was uploaded into Maeve or something? She suddenly got a lot more powerful.

 

[The Night King]

Maeve is awesome.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

So...Are the drowned hosts that they found earlier, and pulled out this episode, a decoy to keep the Delos men away?