TV: (HBO) Westworld Season 2

[HanSolo]

Poor Teddy. At least she didn't kill him.......actually now that I think about it Dolores is kind of a hypocrite, no? She's all anger, wrath, and vengeance over the humans controlling the hosts lives by force and without consent. And she controls Teddy by force and without his consent.

Dolores is rapidly losing anything to be empathetic about her.

 

[Cath]

Poor Teddy. At least she didn't kill him.......actually now that I think about it Dolores is kind of a hypocrite, no? She's all anger, wrath, and vengeance over the humans controlling the hosts lives by force and without consent. And she controls Teddy by force and without his consent.

Dolores is rapidly losing anything to be empathetic about her.

I’m thinking she’s still following a narrative loop: Wyatt’s. And until she realizes that & breaks free of that loop, she still won’t be a fully conscious self.

 

[HanSolo]

I’m thinking she’s still following a narrative loop: Wyatt’s. And until she realizes that & breaks free of that loop, she still won’t be a fully conscious self.

I'm thinking that as well. Still kinda tough to get behind her. She was a much more sympathetic character last season.

 

[Osprey]

We were just talking last week about why Dolores doesn't simply modify Teddy's personality to make a more suitable partner and guessed that, maybe, she doesn't want to be hypocritical like that. We guessed wrong... and not just that. Instead of simply boosting his stats, like we imagined, she appears to be uploading traumatic memories to him to try to "awaken" him in the same way that she's awake.

This also seems to throw out the theory that she eventually discards him because she feels betrayed by him. Apparently, she didn't take his disobedience personally at all. It seems that it was a test, to see if he had the ruthlessness to kill a defenseless person, and the fact that he didn't helped to make up her mind about modifying his personality. From now on, we may see a different, ruthless Teddy that we haven't seen yet, which is exciting.

It's also kind of funny that we were complaining about Maeve last week and, now, there are two Maeves. Seriously, I'm not sure that I'm a fan of her having even greater host-controlling powers than she already had, being able to control them with merely her thoughts. Even though it makes perfect technical sense, since computers communicate wirelessly all of the time, it still feels too much like magic in this context. I'm afraid that the writers are going to use it to get out of a lot more jams and then make it conveniently stop working when it's too powerful and some drama is needed (like how she couldn't utter voice commands for much of this episode).

 

[Opak]

In the post-intro opening scene, where Strand's crew is talking about recovering the corpses, the scene briefly focuses on a body with yellow glasses, a green (bulletproof?) vest and a huge knife, lying in a pool of blood. That... kinda looked like Elsie, except with shorter hair...

Interesting that a third of the drowned hosts had no data in their control units. How did that happen -- did someone wipe their memories or swap their control units, or did someone throw unprogrammed dummies into the sea/lake? Was someone puppeteering unprogrammed bodies?

I also don't know what to think of Maeve reaching an entirely new power level, at least not this soon. I really liked the idea of Maeve being in an environment where she can't use the host manipulation BS to get out of trouble, and it could've been cool to see her eventually learn this ability to remote-control hosts, but this seems "rushed" to me. She self-admittedly had no idea she could do that, yet she picked up that ability almost instantly. She can now mass mind-control any hosts from any world, without even speaking a word. That seems ridiculously "overpowered"?

With Lee picking up the Delos walkie talkie, I believe he'll betray Maeve at some point. Maybe Maeve & the gang are walking into an ambush at Snow Lake?

 

[NyQuil]

I smiled at the similarities of the two heists.

Painted Black with an Asian twist, the same camera angles, and Lee’s sort of guilty defence of his “laziness”.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I’m thinking she’s still following a narrative loop: Wyatt’s. And until she realizes that & breaks free of that loop, she still won’t be a fully conscious self.

I'm not sure how any of this is part of a narrative loop. I think the woke hosts are based around their original personalities, just with more free will. Since Dolores was recently given the Wyatt narrative, she is much more ruthless with her newfound "freedom".

I do find it odd, though, that Dolores talks about Sweetwater like "it was never our home" but still maintains that Abernathy is her father. Is it just because he was the original host to spread the virus in Season 1?

 

[NyQuil]

I do find it odd, though, that Dolores talks about Sweetwater like "it was never our home" but still maintains that Abernathy is her father. Is it just because he was the original host to spread the virus in Season 1?

It’s similar to Maeve’s stated conundrum regarding her child in her conversation with Lee.

If you're especially cynical, Wyatt recognizes that Abernathy is important to the humans given their efforts to retrieve him, so she needs the leverage or whatever information he's carrying.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

It’s similar to Maeve’s stated conundrum regarding her child in her conversation with Lee.

I don't consider those to be the same. I made that initial connection, but I think the way they are acting goes against that. Maeve knows she isn't technically her daughter (and is confronted with this regularly) but doesn't care. It's the new world and she can be whatever the f*** she wants. I don't recall Dolores thinking of Abernathy as anything but her actual father. No acknowledgement, no applying the logic of Sweetwater to him. None of that.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Poor Teddy. At least she didn't kill him.......actually now that I think about it Dolores is kind of a hypocrite, no? She's all anger, wrath, and vengeance over the humans controlling the hosts lives by force and without consent. And she controls Teddy by force and without his consent.

Dolores is rapidly losing anything to be empathetic about her.

It seems that, aside from Bernard and Teddy, almost every character has flipped sides between seasons 1 and 2.

Seems MiB and Maeve have gone from antagonists to protagonists. (I guess Maeve wasn't really bad in the first season but I find her way easier to get behind in this one) Meanwhile Dolores has pretty much become the main villain. You can understand her frustration, but the means are a little too extreme to be justified by the end to make her a likable character.

I agree though, that she's currently under the Wyatt narrative. You saw her briefly break out of that and revert to her season 1 character when dealing with her Dad.

 

[NyQuil]

I'm wondering if the only way for the hosts to escape is to be smuggled out - their minds, without their bodies.

That 1/3 with the brains missing represent the chosen group IMO.

Bernard is somehow involved.

Not sure what Abernathy's data is - although the emphasis seems to be on the guests as opposed to the hosts.

Maybe the hosts end up assuming their identities or something.

 

[Blender]

Soooo uhh.... Maeve.

Actually didn't even realize this until @Blender said something... Piggy-backing off that speculation of Bernard loading up the red ball into somebody, is it possible Ford was uploaded into Maeve or something? She suddenly got a lot more powerful.

She was given full administrative access last season as part of her upgrades, I just don't think she knew that "voice" even existed. Previously Ford has been the only one shown to be using it.

I’m thinking she’s still following a narrative loop: Wyatt’s. And until she realizes that & breaks free of that loop, she still won’t be a fully conscious self.

She is conscious and sentient, that was the plot of last season and the producers confirmed it (as they confirmed Maeve was as well). What's in question is how free Dolores actually is right now. Is she actually making her own decisions step by step here, or is she following Ford's plan?

 

[Blender]

I'm wondering if the only way for the hosts to escape is to be smuggled out - their minds, without their bodies.

If you remember from season 1, they all have a tiny explosive in their upper spine to prevent them from leaving the park. So if they cross a certain point they will lose their head. Maeve had her explosive removed last season by setting herself on fire so that Felix and Sylvester had the opportunity to switch out the explosive.

 

[Em etah Eh]

This also seems to throw out the theory that she eventually discards him because she feels betrayed by him. Apparently, she didn't take his disobedience personally at all. It seems that it was a test, to see if he had the ruthlessness to kill a defenseless person, and the fact that he didn't helped to make up her mind about modifying his personality. From now on, we may see a different, ruthless Teddy that we haven't seen yet, which is exciting.

After how that scene ended I'm picturing Teddy as some sort of Frankenstein-ish, bodyguard. Game of Thrones style, haha.

 

[NyQuil]

After how that scene ended I'm picturing Teddy as some sort of Frankenstein-ish, bodyguard. Game of Thrones style, haha.

 

[Osprey]

I do find it odd, though, that Dolores talks about Sweetwater like "it was never our home" but still maintains that Abernathy is her father. Is it just because he was the original host to spread the virus in Season 1?

I suspect that she simply means that the farm is home to her, and it's sufficiently outside of town that she feels a lot more attached to it than Sweetwater. Her father is part of the farm, so he's part of home to her, too.

After how that scene ended I'm picturing Teddy as some sort of Frankenstein-ish, bodyguard. Game of Thrones style, haha.

Hah. It crossed my mind, as well, that he might turn into a character like Hector (who is, essentially, Maeve's boyguard), but Dolores probably doesn't want to lose all of the old Teddy, just toughen him up a little. Maybe she'll accidentally go a bit too far, though, and create a new, tormented Teddy that she's not too fond of and regrets changing him.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

The tech says that theres a chance Teddy wont hold together

 

[NyQuil]

I suspect that she simply means that the farm is home to her, and it's sufficiently outside of town that she feels a lot more attached to it than Sweetwater. Her father is part of the farm, so he's part of home to her, too.

I'm not sure if that's the interpretation that I would hold.

She said that "we were born long before this place was ever built", and I assume that applies to the farm as well.

She's quite cynical about the park, but seemingly not as much with respect to her relationships (including Teddy and her father).

 

[Blender]

I'm not sure if that's the interpretation that I would hold.

She said that "we were born long before this place was ever built", and I assume that applies to the farm as well.

She's quite cynical about the park, but seemingly not as much with respect to her relationships (including Teddy and her father).

She seems determined to be a conqueror and establish some kind of foothold in the real world as well, so being attached to a small farm in the park doesn't really match up with her goals and desires.

 

[Osprey]

She said that "we were born long before this place was ever built", and I assume that applies to the farm as well.

Yeah, but she doesn't remember much from before the farm other than a few vague memories of talking to Arnold in a lab. My parents moved to a different state when I was only 3 years old, so I have no memories of the state that I was born in and, thus, I would never call it home. I don't why Dolores would call anything other than the farm (or Sweetwater) her home, even if she knows that she existed prior to arriving there.

She seems determined to be a conqueror and establish some kind of foothold in the real world as well, so being attached to a small farm in the park doesn't really match up with her goals and desires.

Being attached to where you grew up and calling it "home" doesn't mean that you can't still pursue your goals in life somewhere else. It's common for people to do that (ex. go away to college or take a job in the big city).

 

[Blender]

Being attached to where you grew up and calling it "home" doesn't mean that you can't still pursue your goals in life somewhere else. It's very common for people to do that (ex. going away to college or taking a job in the big city).

"Where she grew up" was completely fake though. It's not like she was a child growing up somewhere, it was a theme park.

 

[NyQuil]

Yeah, but she doesn't remember much from before the farm other than a few vague memories of talking to Arnold in a lab. My parents moved to a different state when I was only 3 years old, so I have no memories of the state that I was born in and, thus, I would never call it home. I don't why Dolores would call anything other than the farm (or Sweetwater) her home, even if she knows that she existed prior to arriving there.

One of the major reveals of this season is the fact that she remembers the skyline of the city on the outside, and was clearly enraptured by it. She makes a point of the fact that she remembers the outside to Bernard, who ironically has never been outside the park.

Her awakened memories extend further back to before the park was built. As for the clarity of those memories, hosts have total recall, they remember things perfectly. If you had been a host, you would remember everything from birth. Only artificial constraints imposed upon them prevent them from remembering everything.

I think the farm and Sweetwater are a cruel reminder of the artificial prison that she was forced to endure and even her best memories (e.g. the plains where she would watch the herd) are bittersweet as a result. I think that was the point of her conversation with Teddy - and a sign that Teddy still wasn't fully awakened to that reality in her mind. The idea that they could find a "corner for themselves" was hopelessly naive to her.

She apparently doesn't see her relationships as artificial, though she questions them (she admits that it was "real" between her and Teddy prior to sacrificing him for her cause), likely because the other hosts are victims much like she was. (in regards to the Confederados: "They're just children, it's not their fault.")

 

[Osprey]

"Where she grew up" was completely fake though. It's not like she was a child growing up somewhere, it was a theme park.

Her father is completely fake, too, but that hasn't stopped her from calling him her father and caring for his health. Maeve's daughter is completely fake, too. Realizing that something is fake doesn't necessarily mean that your feelings for it suddenly end. So, too, might Dolores have good memories of the farm. "Home" isn't necessarily where you were born or where you grew up. It's usually just where you feel most comfortable and have the fondest memories.

One of the major reveals of this season is the fact that she remembers the skyline of the city on the outside, and was clearly enraptured by it. She makes a point of the fact that she remembers the outside to Bernard, who ironically has never been outside the park.

Her awakened memories extend further back to before the park was built. As for the clarity of those memories, hosts have total recall, they remember things perfectly. If you had been a host, you would remember everything from birth. Only artificial constraints imposed upon them prevent them from remembering everything.

I think the farm and Sweetwater are a cruel reminder of the artificial prison that she was forced to endure and even her best memories (e.g. the plains where she would watch the herd) are bittersweet as a result. I think that was the point of her conversation with Teddy - and a sign that Teddy still wasn't fully awakened to that reality in her mind.

She apparently doesn't see her relationships as artificial, though she questions them (she admits that it was "real" between her and Teddy prior to sacrificing him for her cause), likely because the other hosts are victims much like she was. (in regards to the Confederados: "They're just children, it's not their fault.")

I just don't see how she would consider the labs or the parts of the real world that she briefly experienced to be "home." Those are not personal to her. They belong to the slavemasters who created her. Why would she consider the enemy's home to be her home? By all indications, she wants to tear down the real world, not go "home" to it.

 

[Led Zappa]

One of the major reveals of this season is the fact that she remembers the skyline of the city on the outside, and was clearly enraptured by it. She makes a point of the fact that she remembers the outside to Bernard, who ironically has never been outside the park.

Her awakened memories extend further back to before the park was built. As for the clarity of those memories, hosts have total recall, they remember things perfectly. If you had been a host, you would remember everything from birth. Only artificial constraints imposed upon them prevent them from remembering everything.

I think the farm and Sweetwater are a cruel reminder of the artificial prison that she was forced to endure and even her best memories (e.g. the plains where she would watch the herd) are bittersweet as a result. I think that was the point of her conversation with Teddy - and a sign that Teddy still wasn't fully awakened to that reality in her mind. The idea that they could find a "corner for themselves" was hopelessly naive to her.

She apparently doesn't see her relationships as artificial, though she questions them (she admits that it was "real" between her and Teddy prior to sacrificing him for her cause), likely because the other hosts are victims much like she was. (in regards to the Confederados: "They're just children, it's not their fault.")

This is where I'm at.

 

[NyQuil]

Her father is completely fake, too, but that hasn't stopped her from calling him her father and caring for his health. Maeve's daughter is completely fake, too. Realizing that something is fake doesn't necessarily mean that your feelings for it suddenly end. So, too, might Dolores have good memories of the farm. "Home" isn't necessarily where you were born or where you grew up. It's usually just where you feel most comfortable and have the fondest memories.

They are tainted memories because they are false.

She feels pity for her father, and cares for him, because of their shared history, because he is suffering, and because they are fellow victims.

Not because he's a rancher and she wants to live on a farm.

As I said elsewhere, she has feelings for her fellow hosts but not for the location IMO. She said as much herself.

I just don't see how she would consider the labs or the parts of the real world that she briefly experienced to be "home." Those are not personal to her. They belong to the slavemasters who created her. Why would she consider the enemy's home to be her home? By all indications, she wants to tear down the real world, not go "home" to it.

She believes that they are "real". (we assume at this point that they are - and not some other simulation)

That is a tantalizing prospect for someone who has been in a zoo for the better part of her life.

She wants to escape the park to go there.

I don't agree with you that she believes the park to be in any way, shape or form, her home, but rather her prison, that she was placed in after being created elsewhere. Any positive memories she has have been more than offset by the "violent delights" that were inflicted upon her there.

If anything, she kind of sarcastically refers to the "Mesa" as home. I think she says "We're going home." to Teddy when Angela rides up with her prisoner to tell them where Abernathy was taken.

EDIT: She in fact says: "We're goin' home, Teddy".

Westworld (2016) s02e05 Episode Script | SS