TV: (HBO) Westworld Season 2

[Emperoreddy]

So...Are the drowned hosts that they found earlier, and pulled out this episode, a decoy to keep the Delos men away?

Maybe, but i think Dolores is just wiping some hosts for some reason. Teddy included.

 

[Osprey]

I think that we might just be speaking for different facets of her personality. I absolutely concede that there's no love lost between Wyatt and anything in the park. She would burn the place to the ground and burn the real world to the ground, too, if she could. I'd like to believe, however, that Dolores is still in there and that part of her does have feelings for the farm, her father and even Sweetwater. I think that we see glimpses of that side of her now and then when she's alone with her father and with Teddy. For all intents and purposes, though, that's not who she is at the moment, but I want to believe that Wyatt isn't completely who she is and that Dolores' feelings are still in there somewhere.

In fact, I wonder if making this Wyatt persona much harder to like than last season's Dolores was deliberate to create the most contrast and because there will eventually be a battle between the personalities. If Season 1 was Dolores listening to the good angel (her original programming) on one shoulder, Season 2 might be her listening to the little devil (her newer Wyatt programming) on the other. So far, she seems to be as much a slave to one as she was to the other. Perhaps Season 3 will see her break free of both programmings and create her own personality, borrowing elements that she likes from both. That might give us a Dolores that is a strong leader on a mission like Wyatt, but also capable of empathy and mercy and not so cynical and jaded, like we liked about her in the first season.

 

[Blender]

I think that we might just be speaking for different facets of her personality. I absolutely concede that there's no love lost between Wyatt and anything in the park. She would burn the place to the ground and burn the real world to the ground, too, if she could. I'd like to believe, however, that Dolores is still in there and that part of her does have feelings for the farm, her father and even Sweetwater. I think that we see glimpses of that side of her now and then when she's alone with her father and with Teddy. For all intents and purposes, right now, that's not who she is, but I want to believe that Wyatt isn't completely who she is and that Dolores' feelings are still in there somewhere.

In fact, I wonder if making this Wyatt persona much harder to like than last season's Dolores was deliberate to create the most contrast and because there will eventually be a battle between the personalities. If Season 1 was Dolores listening to the good angel on one shoulder, Season 2 might be her listening to the little devil on the other. Perhaps Season 3 will see the two merge together, leaving us with a Dolores that is a strong leader like Wyatt, but also showing the empathy and non-cynicism that we liked about her in the first season.

This sounds suspiciously like the plot of a Star Trek episode.

 

[Osprey]

This sounds suspiciously like the plot of a Star Trek episode.

Hah. You know what they say about science fiction: that there are only so many original ideas and every sci-fi world cribs and adapts the same ones.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Maybe, but i think Dolores is just wiping some hosts for some reason. Teddy included.

Yeah...I gave the reason, or a reason. The smoke to get the flies away


I believe she says something akin to Teddy that he is one of those cows burned for smoke and guess who ends up in the water. Also I believe that 'home' is the real world. Perhaps the hosts missing their brains, or whatever it exactly is, is because transferring them to another host is how the will train out of the park without exploding

 

[kmart]

so far delores plan is to safe her daddy... which is another way of saying protect westworlds data. breaking free into the real world doesnt make much sense... it just seems like a potential storyline that will be never executed by no one because they are simply not programmed to do so. maeve walked out of the train because she never had an option.

i could not spot clues that fleeing from westworld is a possibility for the hosts. self awareness beyond realizing that they are robots must be reached... how do they maintain energy, do they eat ? can they fix themselves or how about gathering information about the real world. so far everything is set up to protect data versus stealing it... and the show does a great job of hiding how the real world (future) looks like. my guess is that it would take away the importance of the theme park.

 

[void]

Best episode of the series followed by the worst episode of the series. Yep, this season is the definition of inconsistent.

 

[Osprey]

Best episode of the series followed by the worst episode of the series. Yep, this season is the definition of inconsistent.

It wasn't the worst for me because I was soaking in Shogun World, but, yeah, the season has been inconsistent... and it's been deliberate. One week is heavy on story and mystery and then the next is mostly action and adventure, and it's the action and adventure episodes like last night that seem weaker to some of us. Of course, there may be more casual viewers who enjoy those more straightforward episodes and get lost during the story-heavy episodes. I'd prefer if the writers could even them out, so that each episode has about the same amounts of story and adventure, but maybe that's easier said than done.

 

[Hivemind]

Best episode of the series followed by the worst episode of the series. Yep, this season is the definition of inconsistent.

I'd take this episode over episodes 1-2 of season 2, but still well behind any episode from season 1. There duplicate concept was mildly interesting, although they were pretty blunt and hamfisted about it.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Last episode was easily better than 1 and 3 of this season

 

[TheAngryHank]

After how that scene ended I'm picturing Teddy as some sort of Frankenstein-ish, bodyguard. Game of Thrones style, haha.

He would end up on Aryas list.

 

[TheAngryHank]

One of the major reveals of this season is the fact that she remembers the skyline of the city on the outside, and was clearly enraptured by it. She makes a point of the fact that she remembers the outside to Bernard, who ironically has never been outside the park.

Her awakened memories extend further back to before the park was built. As for the clarity of those memories, hosts have total recall, they remember things perfectly. If you had been a host, you would remember everything from birth. Only artificial constraints imposed upon them prevent them from remembering everything.

I think the farm and Sweetwater are a cruel reminder of the artificial prison that she was forced to endure and even her best memories (e.g. the plains where she would watch the herd) are bittersweet as a result. I think that was the point of her conversation with Teddy - and a sign that Teddy still wasn't fully awakened to that reality in her mind. The idea that they could find a "corner for themselves" was hopelessly naive to her.

She apparently doesn't see her relationships as artificial, though she questions them (she admits that it was "real" between her and Teddy prior to sacrificing him for her cause), likely because the other hosts are victims much like she was. (in regards to the Confederados: "They're just children, it's not their fault.")

You write really well.

 

[TheAngryHank]

Im always left with more questions than answers ,probably by design.
Deloris will probably want to go to her farm after she burns both worlds down just to still be unhappy.
Clemintine is crazy hot.

 

[Osprey]

Clemintine is crazy hot.

That seems to me like an odd thing to say now, with her looking the roughest that we've seen and starting to twitch, like she's been through too many spin cycles. Hey, I'm not one to judge, though. We all have different tastes.

 

[Dick Sledge]

That seems to me like an odd thing to say now, with her looking the roughest that we've seen and starting to twitch, like she's been through too many spin cycles. Hey, I'm not one to judge, though. We all have different tastes.

Depends. Which Clementine?

We can't solve this riddle without details.

 

[Cath]

She is conscious and sentient, that was the plot of last season and the producers confirmed it (as they confirmed Maeve was as well). What's in question is how free Dolores actually is right now. Is she actually making her own decisions step by step here, or is she following Ford's plan?

I trust the producers' word about Maeve because we saw her tinker with her build and give herself the same kind of administrative command capabilities as Ford last season (thus why she realized in this latest episode she could control the hosts without voicing commands out loud like Ford did once last season) but I'm not sure I trust their word on Dolores. That's I meant by conscious: are you truly conscious if you're following someone else's plan? Ford implanted the Wyatt narrative in Dolores and it's probably still ongoing. I don't think we know who the true Dolores is yet.

 

[Opak]

What was also interesting about this week's episode was, again, observing the differences between Maeve and Dolores. Maeve had the option of using her abilities to modify Akane, as Maeve wanted to "set her free", but she backed down from doing that when she realized that Akane might not be able to handle that, or might not want that. Meanwhile, Dolores/Wyatt had the Delos tech guy modify the **** out of poor old Teddy, regardless of what he thought about it or what the consequences will be.

In that sense, Maeve is starting to believe in an individual's ability to make choices. Maeve chose to help Sakura/Akane, Akane chose to murder the Shogun's emissary (evidenced by Lee's WTF moment), Akane chose to not become like Maeve. Even the Shogun, who was badly damaged and leaking cortical fluid, made a number of out-of-narrative choices during the entire episode.

With Dolores/Wyatt, it's more like a join or die -type of thing. Teddy wasn't into Dolores' ideology, so she arranged his brainwashing to take place. It's funny to see, how a character who's exhibiting the behavioural traits of a brainwashed cultist herself is now basically acting in the role of a cult leader.

 

[Blender]

I trust the producers' word about Maeve because we saw her tinker with her build and give herself the same kind of administrative command capabilities as Ford last season (thus why she realized in this latest episode she could control the hosts without voicing commands out loud like Ford did once last season) but I'm not sure I trust their word on Dolores. That's I meant by conscious: are you truly conscious if you're following someone else's plan? Ford implanted the Wyatt narrative in Dolores and it's probably still ongoing. I don't think we know who the true Dolores is yet.

Consciousness or sentience and free will aren't the same thing though. She is definitely a sentient being at this point, but she may still be under the influence of programming she doesn't realize is influencing her. Maeve on the other hand has had a look and even changed her own programming, and has a better understanding of what her programming is actually telling her to do, so she has a better ability to analyze her own choices with that in perspective. Dolores has even said a few times this season that she's battling with different personas within her.

 

[TheAngryHank]

That seems to me like an odd thing to say now, with her looking the roughest that we've seen and starting to twitch, like she's been through too many spin cycles. Hey, I'm not one to judge, though. We all have different tastes.

I don't care if she is overheating and running on five clyenders she is still the hottest woman on the show.Even when she is dragging dead bodys by one arm Some woman can pull that off.If you put Padma from top chef or wonder woman on The walking dead they would probably pass as doable
The woman that played Harly Quin looked the best id seen her in that movie and shes hot.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

What was also interesting about this week's episode was, again, observing the differences between Maeve and Dolores. Maeve had the option of using her abilities to modify Akane, as Maeve wanted to "set her free", but she backed down from doing that when she realized that Akane might not be able to handle that, or might not want that. Meanwhile, Dolores/Wyatt had the Delos tech guy modify the **** out of poor old Teddy, regardless of what he thought about it or what the consequences will be.

In that sense, Maeve is starting to believe in an individual's ability to make choices. Maeve chose to help Sakura/Akane, Akane chose to murder the Shogun's emissary (evidenced by Lee's WTF moment), Akane chose to not become like Maeve. Even the Shogun, who was badly damaged and leaking cortical fluid, made a number of out-of-narrative choices during the entire episode.

With Dolores/Wyatt, it's more like a join or die -type of thing. Teddy wasn't into Dolores' ideology, so she arranged his brainwashing to take place. It's funny to see, how a character who's exhibiting the behavioural traits of a brainwashed cultist herself is now basically acting in the role of a cult leader.

Everything in Shogun World was different because they were long past their reset. Lee mentions how the shoguns army never comes to town. This isnt because Akane is self aware or anything

 

[Blender]

Everything in Shogun World was different because they were long past their reset. Lee mentions how the shoguns army never comes to town. This isnt because Akane is self aware or anything

The Shogun was malfunctioning as well. They thought he might be self aware, but he has suffered some kind of head trauma like Bernard did, and it's really f***ing with his programming. If the park were operating, they would have pulled and fixed him.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Yeah. William mentions when he goes back to Pariah, something along the lines, of "This is what happens when a story finishes out". When everyone was murdered. Speaking which why is Lawrence allowed to help William? El Lazo, which i just saw means loop, said he has to do it alone, along with host ford, and he and his men all shot themselves.

 

[Blender]

Yeah. William mentions when he goes back to Pariah, something along the lines, of "This is what happens when a story finishes out". When everyone was murdered. Speaking which why is Lawrence allowed to help William? El Lazo, which i just saw means loop, said he has to do it alone, along with host ford, and he and his men all shot themselves.

William has to play the game. He tried to use his knowledge of the park narrative to manipulate his way into getting an army, so Ford's programming had them all kill themselves to prevent that. Lawrence is already the closest thing he has to a friend/ally in the park, and he earned his help by playing the game.

 

[Emperoreddy]

The covers have always been one of my favorite things about this show, and this season has definitely continued to deliver on that part.

 

[Blender]

Ford, or some version of him, is running the network. I think some people called that.

Good episode, but the Maeve daughter subplot is dragging.