TV: (HBO) Westworld Season 2

[WingsMJN2965]

This is gonna sound horrible no matter how I phrase it, but good Lord Anthony Hopkins needs to live out the rest of this series. His return is clear, but it's still gonna be a s*** your pants moment regardless.

Also, the actor who plays Peter Abernathy is outstanding.

 

[Osprey]

I had the same thought, that that was the best episode so far. I was captivated the entire length, and it was a longer episode, to boot. It was partly so satisfying, I think, because we got a lot of answers. Besides the reveal of William's daughter, we learned what happened to Elsie. We also know for certain now that William has been trying for 30 years to cheat death. Finally, we know for certain that he soured on it and considers it his "greatest mistake." It seems even more likely now that he's heading there to destroy what's left of it, lest someone, say, gets the idea to clone his awful self like he tried to clone his awful father in law.

The big, new question that we got is who Ford made Bernard create a second control unit for. It seems to me that there are only two people important enough to Ford to do that for (and that would provide the greatest twist for the show): Ford, himself, and Arnold. Might Ford have cloned himself and might that clone have been who Dolores killed? That would open up the possibility of Hopkins returning this season or next.

If that's too much of a stretch, then Ford might've intended to bring back Arnold as more than just a host and as close to human as possible. It'd be pretty trippy if Bernard were commanded to create a control unit essentially for a new version of himself. It's a bit unclear to me if you can create one of these new clones from an already-dead person or whether you need an imprint from a living person, though. If it's the latter, that would rule out Arnold, but Bernard is so like Arnold already that it makes you imagine that that wouldn't be a requirement.

Well you guys guessed right with the daughter thing.

FWIW, you were right about not putting too much stock into imdb.com credits. Young William, Elsie and Stubbs have all been in more episodes than they were originally listed as being in and the woman listed as "Grace" is William's daughter, Emily.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

I think they've built this up so much that anything other than a Ford return would be underwhelming.

Also, FWIW:

Spoiler

Anthony Hopkins is credited for 12 total episodes in the series. So unless they've credited him for flashbacks...

 

[Osprey]

Also, FWIW:

Spoiler

Anthony Hopkins is credited for 12 total episodes in the series. So unless they've credited him for flashbacks...

Hah. That's exactly the kind of thing that I just told myself that I wouldn't read too much into from now on, yet that's tempting me to walk back on that some. That's interesting, to say the least.

Also:

Spoiler

We know that HBO did bring back Hopkins in some capacity, because, in Episode 2, we heard his voice speaking what I think were new lines. Would they really bother the great and busy Anthony Hopkins to come in simply for the purpose of delivering a couple of voice-over lines? Wouldn't it make a bit more sense that they brought him back in primarily for something a little more substantial and recorded the voice-over lines at the same time? We may find out next Sunday, since that's when the episode is that imdb.com says that he (and not just his voice) is in.

 

[Tkachuk4MVP]

Surprised to see a handful of people in here not digging this season. I think it's been mesmerizing from the get-go.

 

[XX]

They followed the worst episode of the series with one of the best, so good job. The season is tentatively back on track.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Surprised to see a handful of people in here not digging this season. I think it's been mesmerizing from the get-go.

I think overall it's been very difficult to follow, honestly. And I'm usually able to pick up on this stuff pretty easily.

I will say, this most recent episode was very LOST like. The opening scene with the record and Delos waking up bore a stark similarity to Desmond waking up in the hatch.

 

[Carlzner]

Incredible episode. William/MiB is turning into a really great character.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Incredible episode. William/MiB is turning into a really great character.

I think it's kinda aggravating though that all the "Heroes" and "Villains" last season having seemingly flipped roles.

Bernard seems to be the only one who has stayed in the same place, which is kinda making him the only completely likable character for me.

The seemingly budding tension between Dolores and Teddy should be interesting, though.

 

[Carlzner]

I think it's kinda aggravating though that all the "Heroes" and "Villains" last season having seemingly flipped roles.

I never saw William as a hero or a villain last season and I certainly don’t now. Not that black and white. Not for any character.

 

[HanSolo]

Fantastic episode.

As for the tone and structure of the season, I think the point is that it's supposed to be disorienting. It feels intentional.

They completely spoiled the whole daughter thing during the previously on because they showed the clip of William mentioning he has a daughter lol.

And what was with the Stubbs scene. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a host as well.

Eh. It really isn't that surprising to begin with. I mean I said I was 90% sure she was William's daughter last week. I wouldn't say they exactly telegraphed it but they made it pretty easy to figure out.

 

[void]

Now THAT was a Westworld episode. Might've even been the best one yet. Holy crap was it ever good. I pray that they continue on this path and it doesn't go back to how it was during the first 3 episodes.

I'll keep posting here but I'm absolutely done reading this thread btw. People figure shit out way too fast.

I think overall it's been very difficult to follow, honestly. And I'm usually able to pick up on this stuff pretty easily.

I will say, this most recent episode was very LOST like. The opening scene with the record and Delos waking up bore a stark similarity to Desmond waking up in the hatch.

YES! I thought the exact same thing when I saw the scene. Really nice homage.. no way it was just a coincidence.

 

[Tkachuk4MVP]

I think overall it's been very difficult to follow, honestly. And I'm usually able to pick up on this stuff pretty easily.

The first season was pretty difficult to follow in its own right and didn't really come together until the last few episodes. Part of what makes the show mesmerizing for me is that it sucks me in and I'm able to just go along for the ride without trying to figure everything out after each scene (which is something I tend to do). Based on how the first season turned out, I have faith that all of this messiness will start to make sense by the end of the season.

 

[Prntscrn]

That was one helluva episode

I think season 2 has been great thus far. The only thing I don't really like is how they made Dolores this badass ice cold killer, they ould have kept some of her old behaviour. But I don't know if she ain't "free" and 100% following the Wyatt narrative I could see it

 

[Peasy]

If Bernard did grab Ford's consciousness, I think that it would probably be put into a different looking body.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

If Bernard did grab Ford's consciousness, I think that it would probably be put into a different looking body.

That'd be even more of a letdown.

If you're gonna have Ford back it has to be Anthony Hopkins. If you can't get him to commit, then the character needs to be left alone.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Stop trying to make Ford happen. It's not going to happen.

 

[Blender]

Louis Herthum and Peter Mullan need to have a robot malfunction contest.

 

[Jack Straw]

I think overall it's been very difficult to follow, honestly. And I'm usually able to pick up on this stuff pretty easily.

I will say, this most recent episode was very LOST like. The opening scene with the record and Delos waking up bore a stark similarity to Desmond waking up in the hatch.

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[sigma six]

Louis Herthum and Peter Mullan need to have a robot malfunction contest.

Yes. The amount of mental distress they we're conveying almost made *me* feel anxious, haha.

I really enjoyed the Jimmy Delos character during his short run.

 

[Em etah Eh]

Stop trying to make Ford happen. It's not going to happen.

Why are you so positive Ford isn't going to happen?

Loved Delos in this episode. Also, there was a great line by the Indian Chief, something along the lines of "you only live as long as the last person who remembers you".

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Why are you so positive Ford isn't going to happen?

Just a hunch. I think his story ended in Season 1 and to bring him back would be doing so for the sake of it being Anthony Hopkins more than a reasonable narrative purpose.

 

[Osprey]

Loved Delos in this episode. Also, there was a great line by the Indian Chief, something along the lines of "you only live as long as the last person who remembers you".

That was the very last thing that the chief said before all of the natives disappeared. I wonder if that was the very moment that Ford was shot in the back of the head at the gala. Ford could've been the last person to really know (i.e. "remember") them and their disappearance could've been symbolic of the end of Ford's life.

Just a hunch. I think his story ended in Season 1 and to bring him back would be doing so for the sake of it being Anthony Hopkins more than a reasonable narrative purpose.

I'd trust that, if he returns, it's something that the writers did originally have in mind as a possibility. It could be that their ideal development was to have Ford return somehow at some point, but, if the actor (who ended up being Hopkins) ended up not wanting to return or couldn't (say, for health reasons), they could also just leave him dead.

While the writers have a framework for all 5 seasons, I don't think that they have everything set in stone and that they can move things around and keep around or bring back characters, depending on availability and reception. For example, if, say, the actress who plays Elsie couldn't return or the fans didn't like her, she could've easily been written out of this season. I think that it's good to be fluid like that when writing for a TV show. You need to have a plan and not just make everything up as you go, but you should also have backup plans for the unexpected. It could be that leaving Ford dead was just the backup plan and the original, ideal plan was to have him return in some way. We really don't know what these crafty writers had in mind all along.

 

[Blender]

That was the very last thing that the chief said before all of the natives disappeared. I wonder if that was the very moment that Ford was shot in the back of the head at the gala. Ford created the natives to be part of his secret narrative, so he could've been the last (and only) person to really know (i.e. "remember") them and their disappearance could've been symbolic of the end of Ford's life.

Ford created the masked Wyatt cult for his secret narrative, the Ghost Nation Natives have been around for decades.

 

[Osprey]

Ford created the masked Wyatt cult for his secret narrative, the Ghost Nation Natives have been around for decades.

I'm not sure about that. Remember, in Season 1, when Ford's new narrative was being previewed (for Delos execs, I believe) and Lee was taking credit for it? I recall the natives standing behind them as some of the hosts involved in that narrative.

I found a screencap:

I'm not sure why the image is rendering so small, but you can still make out the natives in their "Ghost Nation" paint.