GDT: Hawks vs Devils: 6PM CT on NBCSNCH--Battle of the Former 1sts

[Backyard Hockey]

The game of no D and lucky bounces towards the net... it happens.

Something is wrong, yet not sure what it is. Lack of proven vets after losing 3 key pieces in Hossa, Hjalmarsson and Krüger or Q running out of his time with this Team. Not sure how to fix it, but it is fixable.

I agree the loss of Hjalmarsson is a big deal. Notice the Hawks giving up tons of shots each game - while Hammer did start to decline, people are forgetting that he always led the NHL in blocked shots. Hawks could use a few of those now.

Kruger's loss is negligible at best - although he was one of the better penalty killers (but ironically enough, the PK has been light years better this season).

We don't know which Hossa we would have seen - would it have been 2016 Hoss or 2015? I think the lack of his two way game is a bigger deal. I think the Hawks were hoping Sharp could have filled that role to provide some veteran leadership and scoring depth - boy were they mistaken.

 

[Backyard Hockey]

i left at the beginning of the 2nd period, so i do not have visual opinion on what the score is. however i looked up the game stat box score. i also looked at which players had a negative on their +/- column. considering who came away with the negative and compared it to the points they provided, this difference is really a revelation on what is wrong with the Bhawks.

so the question is, was this an example of lack of defense during the game ?? was this an example of bad goal-tending ?? lastly i do not want to point the finger at the coaching, but is this really Q's fault ??

All of the above. D was very bad - particularly Keith and Seabrook. Seabrook has been an absolute disaster all season - case in point in first period - fumbles pass at the point, can't keep it in, turns puck over, gets beat badly, takes penalty, Devils score. Next shift, he takes another penalty. Major momentum changer after the Hawks scored 30 seconds into the game.

Keith had his worse games of the season.

So did Crawford.

 

[Putt Pirate]

One thing that is a bit frustrating, and I wish stan would quit allowing, is picking up ahl talent and allowing Q to play them. Keep em in Rockford so he doesn’t have the ability to use them. But every year some pylon becomes a Q pet and is overvalued and overplayed while a kid that could actually make a difference sits in Rockford. Maybe not a kid that can make a difference but who knows.

 

[Backyard Hockey]

Hartman was scratched tonight? Doubt it was much of a difference

Has been awful outside of maybe two games this year

Easily one of the most disappointing Hawks this season

Keith is older and he has many miles on him so I'm more willing to give him the mulligan.

Seabrook has been terrible before this season, so that's already established.

Saad, until the OT winner, has been disappointing. Started out on fire but then went 10 games without a goal. That can't happen.

I would say Toews has been disappointing, but he has been for the last two seasons. Now he's just an embarrassment stealing $10.5m from this club and hamstringing the roster.

Panik has been disappointing.

Hartman has been a major disappointment - the very definition of 'just a guy'.

Kane has been the biggest disappointment by far. Yes he finally potted a goal, but he's been a ghost a good chunk of the season - looks completely disinterested.

But for me it's simple, Q is the biggest disappointment. The second winningest coach in NHL history looks completely lost in how he's handling the lineups and most importantly, the inability to develop young talent. He, like John Fox, just looks like a guy who has had the game pass him by.

 

[Backyard Hockey]

One thing that is a bit frustrating, and I wish stan would quit allowing, is picking up ahl talent and allowing Q to play them. Keep em in Rockford so he doesn’t have the ability to use them. But every year some pylon becomes a Q pet and is overvalued and overplayed while a kid that could actually make a difference sits in Rockford. Maybe not a kid that can make a difference but who knows.

Cmon that's not fair. Q doesn't play pylons. Bolig, Mashinter, Tootoo, Bouma - those guys have elite Drouin speed!



I think his use of Daley and what Sullivan was able to do with him in Pittsburgh speaks volumes as well.

 

[LDF]

I don't get why some posters thrash Murphy so much. He hasnt been awful or excellent, he has been pretty much okey/solid.

The thing is: he is not playing regularly and not getting trust from Q and as of now, he is #5 Dman which is fine. I don't know what people are expecting, but if somebody thinks he is next young Seabrook or something like that, c'mon.

His current play vs caphit is maybe $1 or $1,5m overpriced. I think eventually he will be worth of his contract but given Seabrooks poor play, Franson is not top-pairing Dman and our only RD which is somewhat good (Rutta), people measure Murphy wrong way.

If we had Trouba and not Seabrook, Murphy would be getting a lot more hype here. He is playing as good #5, and will be solid #4.

i look at this as, this team is playing bad. now at this point, every little mistake is magnified. so all posters key on the little mistakes. i know, b/c i find myself doing this. i need to catch myself and look at the bigger picture. what is the main cause this team is playing like this

 

[ChiHawks10]

Time to fire Q. Enough is enough at this point.

 

[LDF]

Hjalmarsson is the obvious one, though given how bad he's been in ARZ this season, I'm not sure current Hammer helps this team much more than current Murphy.

The big ones for me are Hossa and Kruger.

Now that the Blackhawks 4th line is pretty much just your average scrub 4th line playing 8min or less against other scrubs, it offers zero positive domino effect up the lineup. Lines 2 and 3 have seen their QoC and NZS% and DZS% increased. They're having a really tough time handling it.

Hossa and Kruger were two guys Q could throw out to suppress shots and flip the ice. He doesn't have anybody like that now outside the 1st line. He tried moving Saad to Kane's line to help him out, it didn't work.

This last game aside, our top line players have been our best players overall this season. It's lines 2 and 3 not filling in the vacuum behind the bullet, so to speak, that's leading to a major drop off in offense. If Saad, Toews and Panik are going to keep turning opposing top lines into mulch on possession most nights (though not every night, clearly), then the guys behind them have to take advantage of that. But they're not, and IMO, it's not disinterest as much as simple difficulty.

And this is all in addition to a defense that sucks at shot suppression and is handcuffed by the system as far as transition.

Lots of problems. Some fixable, but some probably not without additions. But I don't believe those additions should be made, cause I think with patience we're as likely to get them from within the organization without giving up any assets.

good post, it just drives me crazy seeing panik, he is soooo inconsistent

 

[Robsker]

There was something encouraging about last nights game. Several, in fact. First, this was the most north-south game the Hawks have played since the Pittsburgh game to open the season. the Hawks were barreling down the ice north-south and refrained (in part) from that east-west chippy passing they normally do. They put the puck on net a great deal and were aggressive with shoot first mentality --- by Hawks standards. All that was good.

Second, the Hawks had fewer of the "one pass too many" plays that characterize the team so much. Third, several players looked to liven up a bit and that too is good.

Of course, New Jersey was also playing an aggressive north-south game that overwhelmed the Hawks D (just as the Hawks overwhelmed their D). The difference is their goalie got hot 1/2-way through the game and that was the difference.

Those lamenting the play of the team are those who had unrealistic expectations to begin with. This Hawks team is a bubble playoff team and have been playing like such. This is what one would expect. They will give glimpses of excellence at times and be trash at others --- just like every other bubble playoff team. It is not a bad thing --- nor a good one. It is what it is. The Cap system ensures that the elite teams shuffle --- the team riding roughshod over the league will have a limited ride. The Hawks had that ride and the ride was unusually long. What happens is top players get big $ and then age and play, over time, at a level well below their pay --- like the Hawks have in Toews and Seabs, and even to a degree Kane. this coupled with less $ for quality depth and then not having high draft picks will --- over a period of time, reduce the once king to be a midling to slightly above average team (as other teams move in to be the new kings). this is what has happened to the Hawks.

We have entered into a new era where the Hawks must gear up again to once more challenge. As I have said before, I think the team needs a new coach (at seasons' end) to lead the new era. This team cannot live in the past --- it has to face reality and adapt. This coach does not do that.

 

[LDF]

This is not a playoff team

i disagree, i see this team, as i said in the beginning of the season as a team that can slide into the playoff. yes, but we are all used to seeing the bhawks as going into the playoff as a possible favorite, i just think and would be happy if they go into the playoff as a regular team...... let the team surprise some.

 

[LDF]

Rutta was good offensively, but I believe he was on the ice for a number of NJ's 428 goals last night. I'd have to watch again.

DeBrincat was very good - he also missed some chance including that wide open net where he couldn't elevate. That will come.

It was obvious though - Schmaltz was the best Hawk on the ice last night. Not sure what it was, but he was light years better than other games. I think maybe the pressure of not playing center is helping him and not stressing over his 38% FO work. Although I did see him take a few face offs. His backcheck/steal of Hall and pass to Cat on that goal was a thing of beauty. DatsyukHossa-esque.

i agree with the Rutta point. esp in the 1st period. now i just have to look at the stats +/- to see the whole picture

 

[LDF]

All of the above. D was very bad - particularly Keith and Seabrook. Seabrook has been an absolute disaster all season - case in point in first period - fumbles pass at the point, can't keep it in, turns puck over, gets beat badly, takes penalty, Devils score. Next shift, he takes another penalty. Major momentum changer after the Hawks scored 30 seconds into the game.

Keith had his worse games of the season.

So did Crawford.

that was my impression i came away with, that was why i just couldn't see the rest of the game. Seabs has an absolute horrible 1st period as i have seen. yet Q kept playing him and i mean constantly. this kind of remind me of an older center that Q kept on playing esp during a playoff run.

ref craw, i saw how he misplaced a shot, i still don't know what he was trying to do, head-butt the shot on goal ??

 

[LDF]

One thing that is a bit frustrating, and I wish stan would quit allowing, is picking up ahl talent and allowing Q to play them. Keep em in Rockford so he doesn’t have the ability to use them. But every year some pylon becomes a Q pet and is overvalued and overplayed while a kid that could actually make a difference sits in Rockford. Maybe not a kid that can make a difference but who knows.

for me, this is a power struggle between the 2. esp in a different of philosophy on how the team should be handled and on players playing.

 

[LDF]

Keith is older and he has many miles on him so I'm more willing to give him the mulligan.

Seabrook has been terrible before this season, so that's already established.

Saad, until the OT winner, has been disappointing. Started out on fire but then went 10 games without a goal. That can't happen.

I would say Toews has been disappointing, but he has been for the last two seasons. Now he's just an embarrassment stealing $10.5m from this club and hamstringing the roster.

Panik has been disappointing.

Hartman has been a major disappointment - the very definition of 'just a guy'.

Kane has been the biggest disappointment by far. Yes he finally potted a goal, but he's been a ghost a good chunk of the season - looks completely disinterested.

But for me it's simple, Q is the biggest disappointment. The second winningest coach in NHL history looks completely lost in how he's handling the lineups and most importantly, the inability to develop young talent. He, like John Fox, just looks like a guy who has had the game pass him by.

ref to hartman, i am wondering if the fans are expecting a lot from him. now with him manning the 4th line, those points are going to be even harder to get.

 

[Rollyb]

I think the only way you can shake this team up, is to make a complete clean up behind the bench.

 

[ColdSteel2]

One thing that is a bit frustrating, and I wish stan would quit allowing, is picking up ahl talent and allowing Q to play them. Keep em in Rockford so he doesn’t have the ability to use them. But every year some pylon becomes a Q pet and is overvalued and overplayed while a kid that could actually make a difference sits in Rockford. Maybe not a kid that can make a difference but who knows.

Hinostroza has 15 points in 14 games. Maybe he can develop into something more than a 4th liner. I just think it’s best to keep an eye on the big picture for the time being. We need all of our young guys to become the best they can be.

 

[ChiHawk21]

Went to the game last night....we have a problem on our hands. i am always always positive with this team. until now. Keith Seabrook are showing there age. Rutta is pretty good and the rest of the D is not good. we basically have a 2(keith) a 3(rutta) and a bunch of 6/7 d men. You cant win with that. Also i disagree with some of your takes on a kane and toews. I thought they both played very well yesterday. Sharp played pretty good on the 4th line. Saad invisable. Debrincat was good as well. For the first time in a while i dont know what i want the next step to be. Very disheartening.

Just average/below average guys

Panik/Hartman/Anisimov/Bouma/Sharp/Franson/Murphy/Kero/Bauma/Wingels/Oesterly/Forsling/Seabrook

 

[ChiHawks10]

Went to the game last night....we have a problem on our hands. i am always always positive with this team. until now. Keith Seabrook are showing there age. Rutta is pretty good and the rest of the D is not good. we basically have a 2(keith) a 3(rutta) and a bunch of 6/7 d men. You cant win with that. Also i disagree with some of your takes on a kane and toews. I thought they both played very well yesterday. Sharp played pretty good on the 4th line. Saad invisable. Debrincat was good as well. For the first time in a while i dont know what i want the next step to be. Very disheartening.

Just average/below average guys

Panik/Hartman/Anisimov/Bouma/Sharp/Franson/Murphy/Kero/Bauma/Wingels/Oesterly/Forsling/Seabrook

Yes, the entire team is below average. Tear it down. Trade EVERYONE. Crawford, Toews, Kane, Cat, Schmaltz, all of them. I wanna see the Hawks icing a team like the 90's and early 2000's again! Wooooooooohooooooo that would be awesome! Would KILL to have a bench full of AHLers and 4th line players instead of the lineup that is loaded with future hall of famers.

You literally just listed the majority of the Hawks old, or 4th line/depth players... and said they were average/below average. Of course they are... they're either old, or 4th line depth guys.

A few of them are young still, and will have ups and downs. Others need time... more than 15 games, before they're written off, like Forsling and Murphy, and the same with Oesterle. He's played in like half a dozen games...

Guys like Panik, Hartman, Anisimov, Murphy, Forsling, etc. are going to be fine, and have absolutely no place being on a list with the likes of Bouma, Sharp, Franson, Kero, Wingels, Seabs, etc.

Coaching is the issue right now. Q has lost the locker room, IMO. Been saying it all season. Time to fire the guy and bring in a new voice. Q... is horseshit, at this point. Or less than horseshit, even.

 

[bwana63]

This is not a playoff team

Based on what we've seen thus far, most definitely. We've lapsed into mediocrity. The O is fixable, the D is weak. Q has until ~Xmas to right the ship, I figure.

 

[LDF]

Hinostroza has 15 points in 14 games. Maybe he can develop into something more than a 4th liner. I just think it’s best to keep an eye on the big picture for the time being. We need all of our young guys to become the best they can be.

but the problem is, while i agree with you, esp my thoughts exactly last season, if hino is in Q dog-house, nothing to going to chg that.

 

[Salvaged Ship]

but the problem is, while i agree with you, esp my thoughts exactly last season, if hino is in Q dog-house, nothing to going to chg that.

Management could call up Hino and tell Q to play him or he is fired, that might work. Unfortunately I would expect they are all scared of Q and remember this is the same management that gave Seabrook one of the worst contracts in NHL history and had a Q mustache night. So it just sits and carries on as is, which is basically the Titanic after hitting the iceberg.

 

[ColdSteel2]

but the problem is, while i agree with you, esp my thoughts exactly last season, if hino is in Q dog-house, nothing to going to chg that.

And that is probably part of Bowman’s thought process. I think he’s just gonna let Q do the best he can this year and unless a miracle occurs, launch him after the season. In the meantime, be careful not to let him ruin any of the young players he likes by letting them get led into the doghouse. It works well on both ends. Bowman can say “you wanted Bouma and Wingels” and at the same time preserve the better players in Hinostroza and Dauphin. I really believe Q is a lame duck at this point. The effort level from the vets says it all. Q still has some utility in teaching the young players the fundamentals of NHL hockey. And also, if the vets aren’t producing, he’ll look to lean on the young guys more and more as the season moves along. He’ll have no choice but to do so to potentially, in his mind, save his job. The vets are just going to have to suck it up this year. I don’t want to placate them and bring in a new coach in the middle of the season. Another thing too, we should give Colliton his best chance to show what he can do and that means giving him a strong roster. See if he can make a good enough run with the Hogs to justify giving him the top spot next year.

 

[piteus]

Will Q play the younger guys to develop them? It does no good if he's constantly switching their lines / pairings ... playing and sitting. It screws with their confidence and ultimately makes them hesitant.

Q was great getting the Hawks to point C from point B. Unfortunately, we're back closer to point A again. I'm not sure he's the right man to get us back to point B.

 

[ChiHawk21]

Yes, the entire team is below average. Tear it down. Trade EVERYONE. Crawford, Toews, Kane, Cat, Schmaltz, all of them. I wanna see the Hawks icing a team like the 90's and early 2000's again! Wooooooooohooooooo that would be awesome! Would KILL to have a bench full of AHLers and 4th line players instead of the lineup that is loaded with future hall of famers.

You literally just listed the majority of the Hawks old, or 4th line/depth players... and said they were average/below average. Of course they are... they're either old, or 4th line depth guys.

A few of them are young still, and will have ups and downs. Others need time... more than 15 games, before they're written off, like Forsling and Murphy, and the same with Oesterle. He's played in like half a dozen games...

Guys like Panik, Hartman, Anisimov, Murphy, Forsling, etc. are going to be fine, and have absolutely no place being on a list with the likes of Bouma, Sharp, Franson, Kero, Wingels, Seabs, etc.

Coaching is the issue right now. Q has lost the locker room, IMO. Been saying it all season. Time to fire the guy and bring in a new voice. Q... is horse****, at this point. Or less than horse****, even.

That is a hell of a leap from what i said saying that i dont know what the next step should be while praising toews kane and debrincat. So you may have not read my post. Panik Harman Anisimov Murphy and Forsling are nothing special this year. You can win with them on ur team but not playing the important situations and time they are playing now. Thats two of our top 4 d men and 2 or 3 of our top 6 forwards. Thats not good enough to win a cup with how they have played for a long period of time now. If you want to give oesterle a shot go ahead. I have seen him play before this year and seen him play his 4 games. Hes another guy.

 

[ChiHawk21]

we have seen a lot of hinostroza...hes is a tweenerrrrrr