Discussion in 'Chicago Blackhawks' started by CallMeShaft, Nov 12, 2017.
Right, because we all know Q picks a line up and never changes. Stop with this crap.
Q is an idiot when it comes to lineup decisions. And tends to play young, talented players much less than he should, IMO. The proof is sitting right here in front of us in Cat.
I'd play Cat on the top 6, no question, but it's also 18 games into his career, so I'm not going to act like Q is ruining his career.
Similarly, the post I was responding to suggested that Saad never becomes Saad without Carcillo getting hurt. I realize Carcillo played a couple games on the 1st line with Toews, but he averaged 9 minutes a game in his time with the Hawks. Saad was playing 16 a minutes as a rookie. I realize Q's time has run it's course here with most posters, and that's understandable, but you don't get to change the facts of what happened before.
Right! My dog didn’t die of old age, Q ran it over. Fire Q.
Then you're already admitting that Q is making a mistake, and yes, it may only be 18 games, but it's his first 18 games in the NHL, in his first season, and he's an elite offensive talent at every single step of his career. And now... he's being played with guys who are fringe NHLers at this point. If you don't think that has an impact on a 20 year old player, and his confidence, then IDK what to tell ya.
And I don't think he was trying to change the facts, or rewrite history. It's a valid point. Would Saad have developed the same if Carcillo hadn't gotten a concussion(I believe that's what it was) when Q was playing him on the top line, and Saad played down on the 3rd or 4th line? It's a legitimate question, IMO.
For most players, development plays a key role. Saad, however, came in as a man on a mission and would have overcome any obstacle. I’ll never forget seeing him step on UC ice in training camp. It was Saad, Toews, a big drop off, then Kane and others.
Q makes mistakes, too many these days. No argument there.
Carcillo averaged 9:00 of ice time in 12-13 and Saad averaged 16:28. Carcillo was on the 1st line for at most a couple of games. He wasn't going to stand in the way of Saad's development long term. Going back to Debrincat, Q likes guys to "earn" their spot so to speak, by playing well in a bottom 6 role. I'm not saying that's the best way to do things, but lets not act like Saad was going to toil away as a 3rd liner his whole career if Danny freaking Carcillo doesn't get hurt. That's just spinning things to fit the Q sucks narrative.
He does suck.
I'm not going to deny that he helped coach the Hawks to some Cups. And I'm not going to deny that he out-coached many coaches in the playoffs through those runs. But at this point in time... he sucks. He's gotta go. His antiquated view of the game is hindering the entire Hawks team at this point, including the development of some very talented young players.
You don't make elite talents earn a spot. Would you ask McDavid to "earn" his spot on the top line? Now, don't take that as me comparing McDavid to Cat. I'm just pointing out the ludicrous idea that an elite talent should have to "earn" their spot/time through grinding it out on 4th lines with fringe NHL plugs. You take your elite talent. You play it with other talent. It's that simple.
Cat is not going to learn a damn thing from anyone he plays with on the 3rd and 4th line. Except bad habits, or that no one on his line can come remotely close to keeping up with him, mentally, or physically.
Saad is the type of guy Q likes. Q doesn't favor vets, he favors defensively responsible guys even if they're way over their heads offensively.
Saad and Cat are apples and garden hoses.
I'm not arguing against any of that. I just have a problem with the suggestion that Saad wouldn't have become Saad unless Carcillo got hurt, which was an asinine statement.
Q should go.
Q did a lot of great things here.
Both of those things can be true at the same time. I'm seeing way too much revisionist history here.
I don't think it was a suggestion. It was a question, at least to me.
since last nite discussion of my likes and dislike on the team. it got me thinking about D-cat.
i am wondering if Q is showing everyone, that he is trying to show that Cat needs to earn his position into the top 6. thereby not playing fav's. however we as fans see that he plays fav's. however i am digressing here.
now will come the 2nd part, Q is trying really hard to get that 2nd line scoring and this can also set up a possible 3rd scoring line.
just my thoughts.
Don't think so. Cat shouldn't need to earn his spot in the top 6. Not at all.
No, he picks a crappy lineup, and as soon as the crappy lineup doesn't work, he breaks out the blender and throws crap at a wall until it sticks. Finally he will arrive at the common sense lines he SHOULD HAVE BEEN USING from day 1. His roster decisions and player deployment are absolutely awful. They always have been.
Don't forget, it took Scotty Bowman getting in his ear to fix the lines in 2010 against Philly....
my opinion and my support of Q has diminish greatly in the last couple of weeks. as i said before, i wanted to see 20 games before i make any comments on the team. well 18 game into this season, i am seeing the same thing over and over. no need for the full 20 games.
i made my opinions yesterday, but today, i really want to give many thanks to the org, the players and esp the coach for getting me a SC winner. at my old age, i have seen all chi teams win the big game. Q has so much to winning them, then anyone else.
Hrs learning bad habits from playing with Patrick Sharp? Who is his probably most consistent linemate all season.
This is a weird setiment that being in certain ways is the only way to aid development.
There is no legit real evidence go think you're being harmed or hurt in development by playing in situations harder or worse for you. There's not a real strong way to determine that.
And yeah a player does need to earn a top 6 spit when other wingers have already earned it. You kinda need to show better than kane, saad, panik, and wing playing Schmaltz. If he just auto earns it how don't they?
i am not disputing that, i am saying that Q in his mind set is doing this.
on the 2nd point, i had concerns if his offense would transfer over to the nhl. yeah Cat had some learning curve to sort things out. but he is now becoming more of a viable option on offense.
Question, would i just thrust Cat into the top 6 with my concerns >>>> no.
Yes, because he's having to do more himself(selfish habits), or he's having to play a role he shouldn't be playing... You don't want to turn your elite offensive players into ****ing grinders, by playing them in a grinding role, or checking role... That's just stupid. How can DeBrincat spread his offensive wings playing with a couple of guys who, at this point, are barely NHL players?
As far as earning it, he's a rookie who is second on the team in scoring. He fits the top six better than Panik, and Panik fits the third line better than DeBrincat. It's pretty much a no-brainer.
Aren't you baaging Q be outdated?What are talking about with grinding role for that? The sharp - - cat line hadn't been doing that this year and makes no sense to call the 3rd line that or somehow declare panik better for there when with Toews he's more likely to get somewhere doing that.
..debrincat being turned into a grinder isn't in the role and it's not he's a soft player, he was known to always despite size to play physical so he's gonna anywhere
Especially since even Q hasnt been having a 3rd line do that in years.
I'm not sure why this is hard to understand. DeBrincat is a sniper. He is going to be most productive playing with guys that can set him up and utilize his wicked shot. He is playing with a career 4th liner, and a washed up sniper in Patrick Sharp... Two guys that are probably LEAST likely to set him up and maximize his skillset. So how is he going to have to score? Taking it himself, or getting lucky, grinding out garbage goals.
On top of that, he's the ONLY threat on that line, so the opposition is going to key in on him, knowing damn well that even if he can set those guys up, they likely aren't doing anything with it...
It's the worst possible place to put him.
Q Needs to start winning soon or he'll be gone.
I maintain there's pretty much nothing he can do short of pulling his dick out on national television that will get him fired in-season. This off-season, sure.
No, not necessarily to the bolded. But he's having to do so much more on his own that he's learning to play a selfish game. Cat thinks the game far too fast to play with guys like Sharpie(although I've been fine with Sharp this season), Bouma, Wingels, Kero, etc.
You ever wonder why Cat makes a pass, or an area pass... and it ends up a turnover? Because he's thinking the game way faster(higher IQ) than his linemates. He's thinking of putting the puck where they're supposed to be, or where he expects them to be, but they're not there. So in turn, he's having to do MUCH more on his own, as opposed to being able to function on a cohesive unit.
And... he's a damn sniper. He's an elite offensive talent, known for finding the soft areas of the ice around the slot, and scoring a TON of goals from that area. Who on his line can find him and set him up in those areas? Bouma? Kero? Sharp, even? Don't think so. None of those guys are playmakers, or have remotely close to the vision necessary for setting him up. He needs Schmaltz on his line. Or Kane. Someone who has elite vision and can find him open in the slot area consistently.
His talent is being wasted on a 3rd or 4th line. Period.
And yes, he IS being deployed in a grinder role on one of those two lines this year. Because that's what both the Hawks 3rd and 4th lines are at this point. Grinding lines. Because the top two lines are facing other teams top two lines. The Hawks third and fourth lines are facing other teams' third and fourth lines. Grinding... Any line with a combination of Kero, Bouma, or Wingels on it, is a grinding line.
Now if it was Schmaltz and Sharp and Cat... that's a different story. Or Kane, Anisimov, Cat. But it's not. It's Cat, Sharp, and Bouma. Or Cat, Sharp, and Kero.
It's not that hard to see.
A coaches job is too put the team in the best position to win, not one specific player. I'm sure Schmaltz, Hartman, Hayden and Cat would all benefit from playing with Toews/Kane.
That said, I agree that I'd put Cat up at the top 6 given the teams struggles and his recent production.
To me, not having Cat on the PP is much more of an egregious error than having him on the 3rd line, which I can at least understand trying to spread around the offense.