Proposal: Habs package for speeding up the rebuild

[Voight]

Would Coyotes move Keller? For Guhle?

I doubt they have any interest in trading him let alone for Guhle.

 

[sxvnert]

Habs need to move/buyout the useless old guard first, then ramp up on vets with 1/2 yr deals.

Gallagher, Brendan - 3 more years @ $6,500,000
Anderson, Josh - 3 more years @ $5,500,000
Dvorak, Christian - 1 year @ $4,450,000

$16,450,000 in the toilet keeping these three.

 

[Ghetty Green]

Wants to trade habs unprotected 1st but Mesar and Beck are untouchable ? Ok…

Lol I love Habs fans. The constant delusion is adorable

 

[abo9]

Suzuki is 14th in production this year for Cs, while being better than most of those defensively and while having no offensive support. What does elite mean to you?

Where do you see 14th? On the official NHL website, in pure pts I see 19th. In pts per game I see 23rd

He's good, but yeah I guess my definition of elite is pretty high. I'd say top 10 offensively, and/or in the discussion for serious trophies (Selke included).

 

[dirtydanglez]

habs should target zegras or pinto.

 

[jfhabs]

I wanted to start a similar thread... but focused the other way around: not asking randomly for a forward, but trying to define who might be available for a package of futures.

Dach and Newhook fit a clear pattern: expired ELCs on teams that didn't want to commit to them long term, after they'd played 3 seasons for the teams that drafted them. Dach seems to have been available because of injury concerns (as well as tanking), whereas Colorado didn't want to commit very precious cap room to a guy who didn't seem to fill a clear role for them during their window (he'd clearly failed at filling the #2C role they really needed him to fill).

Looking at ELCs expiring this summer, the list becomes fairly short, there might be a dozen potential trade candidates that Montreal could make future-centered offers for.

Kaliyev and Lundell (if Florida's cap stays tight) would be the 2 guys I'd be calling to ask about, since they are the closest fits to the known pattern.


The GM has twice now shown an interest in acquiring players with some development already baked in (Newhook and Dach) and has also looked at getting higher-end prospects like Heinemann and Barron in trades. It's logical to think this trend might continue with Montreal having an extra first this year and next, and an extra second next year.

I wouldn't consider the Habs #1 pick to be on the table, but OP has his own view of things, of course.

Lundell yes, Kaliyev no.

 

[abo9]

Problem with your analysis is that you are assuming Suzuki is in his final form. He's not. He's shown significant improvement on all areas of his game every year he's been in the league. This will continue - especially when the Habs get secondary scoring from the 2nd line. Also with CC and Slaf continuing to improve offensively (in the coming seasons), it will increase Suzuki's offensive numbers.

Suzuki is currently a 1C with room to become an elite or upper-level two-way 1C.

I would love if Suzuki has another super sayan form in him.

But I looked at the offensive data earlier this year with age curves. Suzuki's progression is pretty standard - forwards usually peak around 23-24 years old on average, then their production stabilize and starts to decline ever so slowly around 28-29 onwards. They do tend to get better defensively with experience though.

We often see big explosions due to increase opportu ities, pp time, etc. Suzuki has had those opportunities for a while, so we see a steady progression.

Its definitely possible he has more in him, but in all likelihood, he's tapping his potential. Which is awesome - a top 20-30 NHL center over the next 10 years is great for Montreal.

As a sidenote, I wonder if you'll humour me this comparison. Was peak Tomas Plekanec a good enough center to be a 1C on a legit contender?


Edit: i see how my comments might look incendiary, while the aim isnt that. Im just saying, Lundell would be a great target.

Best case scenario? Suzuki continues to grow into a great 1C, Dach comes back healthy and taps into his potential, and Lundell is a luxury that not many teams can afford.

Medium case: Suzuki has tapped into his potential, is a solid but not elite 1C, its still important to get a solid 2C. Dach being a bit of a question mark.

Worst case scenario: Dach cant shake the injury bugs. Suzuki's season was a peak and he regresses a bit. Lundell is a 3C... where's the harm?

 

[jfhabs]

Habs need to move/buyout the useless old guard first, then ramp up on vets with 1/2 yr deals.

Gallagher, Brendan - 3 more years @ $6,500,000
Anderson, Josh - 3 more years @ $5,500,000
Dvorak, Christian - 1 year @ $4,450,000

$16,450,000 in the toilet keeping these three.

These vets are keeping us in the basement. Dvorak isn't that bad, but Gallagher and Anderson I'd buy back if trying to compete. Right now, I'd probably wait one last year before moving them for 3 reasons :
- They are giving us a better chance at better draft picks
- The options we'd play over them wouldn't make us contender
- They are already cap dumps, waiting to buy them out only makes the buyout cheaper

 

[Mrb1p]

Where do you see 14th? On the official NHL website, in pure pts I see 19th. In pts per game I see 23rd

He's good, but yeah I guess my definition of elite is pretty high. I'd say top 10 offensively, and/or in the discussion for serious trophies (Selke included).

A lot of players before him arent actually centers. Even so, 19th is pretty close to being elite, wouldn't you say? Hes bound to be a top 10 selke contender this year and his reputation is only going up.

 

[bernmeister]

I agree, i don't see how the 5th overall (or 6th) can be in play. That's an overpayment for Zegras who i agree is Drouin-esque. Habs are better of drafting with the 5th overall pick and trading the Wpg 1st for a 23-25 years old help-now type of forward (like a Kakko)

Kakko not available and would cost signif mo than a late 1st

 

[abo9]

A lot of players before him arent actually centers. Even so, 19th is pretty close to being elite, wouldn't you say? Hes bound to be a top 10 selke contender this year and his reputation is only going up.

I like the optimism. This team has been mediocre to garbage my whole life. Looking forward to better times

I still like the prospect of adding a guy like Lundell, I dont see much cons to it with Dach being a question mark - idk who else who have at C that can fill the 2nd line role adequatly. Depends on the price of course!

 

[TBF1972]

We already have all the pieces we need on defense,
We already have a solid first line
We will draft early this year
Let's end that rebuilt shit, and let's compete!

I'd want a top end talent to take control of the second line
Make your offer

a rebuilding team keeps the top young forward over several magic beans. collecting a multitude of future assets is easier than turning a few of them into a higher quality more proven one.

the only circumstances i can see is a young player balks to sign long term and forces his teams hands.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I would love if Suzuki has another super sayan form in him.

But I looked at the offensive data earlier this year with age curves. Suzuki's progression is pretty standard - forwards usually peak around 23-24 years old on average, then their production stabilize and starts to decline ever so slowly around 28-29 onwards. They do tend to get better defensively with experience though.

We often see big explosions due to increase opportu ities, pp time, etc. Suzuki has had those opportunities for a while, so we see a steady progression.

Its definitely possible he has more in him, but in all likelihood, he's tapping his potential. Which is awesome - a top 20-30 NHL center over the next 10 years is great for Montreal.

As a sidenote, I wonder if you'll humour me this comparison. Was peak Tomas Plekanec a good enough center to be a 1C on a legit contender?


Edit: i see how my comments might look incendiary, while the aim isnt that. Im just saying, Lundell would be a great target.

Best case scenario? Suzuki continues to grow into a great 1C, Dach comes back healthy and taps into his potential, and Lundell is a luxury that not many teams can afford.

Medium case: Suzuki has tapped into his potential, is a solid but not elite 1C, its still important to get a solid 2C. Dach being a bit of a question mark.

Worst case scenario: Dach cant shake the injury bugs. Suzuki's season was a peak and he regresses a bit. Lundell is a 3C... where's the harm?

Pleks is a great example- he hit his peak offensively with 70 points at 27 years old!

Suzuki has a few years of offensive growth before he peaks out!

 

[HabsAddict]

Everybody thought that Plecky was a 3C. When i scouted Komisarek in Hamilton Plecky stood out and impressed me so much i thought we had Koivu Jr on our hands. He never had Koivus nasty demeanor but he did pretty good. Right now he would be a perfect 3C if Dach is actually as good as many of us think. Those two games that Dach played in was at another level...then he gats hurt.

As for Suzuki, he is every teams target. Without a legitimate second line all the defensive pressure from the other team is on him. Get a legitimate second line and he's 100 pt center.

 

[abo9]

Pleks is a great example- he hit his peak offensively with 70 points at 27 years old!

Suzuki has a few years of offensive growth before he peaks out!

Pleky "hit his peak" when he got pp time and more responsibilities, which Suzuki already has.

None the matter, it never hurts to have a deep pool of talented centers on a team. Suzuki isn't McDavid, he cant do it all alone and even for McDavid its arguable that he can do it alone

 

[danyhabsfan]

I'd trade Mesar for free

 

[pth2]

Habs need to move/buyout the useless old guard first, then ramp up on vets with 1/2 yr deals.

Gallagher, Brendan - 3 more years @ $6,500,000
Anderson, Josh - 3 more years @ $5,500,000
Dvorak, Christian - 1 year @ $4,450,000

$16,450,000 in the toilet keeping these three.

So.... you'd move out Dvorak and then try and trade for other veterans with similar, 1-year, contracts ?

Dvorak will be filler until the 2025 deadline, when as a 3d line C we'll get a 2nd for him if he isn't hurt.

Hopefully by the 2026 deadline, Anderson's deal won't look as bad, with the cap rising, and someone might take him on for the last 100 games of his contract, and Gallagher will have gotten himself onto LTIR.

 

[Bouboumaster]

I can see a big package getting you LaF (at top $) with other useful pieces . Howev, Reinbacher and other +s are non negotiable.

Am respecting OP parameters
When I have time later this wk or next will post in separate thread

I'd give a shot at Lafrenière, but it wouldn't be at the price you'd want lol
Like, there's no 1st round coming your way, other than the Winnipeg 1st, in a deal for Lafrenière

I'd do Winnipeg 1st + something for Lafrenière and maybe cap relief

I don't think they can. They will improve though.

Realistically, I think it would be in 2 years, but I want them to be really freakin competitive next year
I want a great player, to have two solid lines
In two years, we should be loaded on defense

You saw Arpon Basu's podcast. There is some pressure on Montreal to take that next step. Finishing out of the playoffs for another 2 or 3 seasons is not acceptable.

The Habs need another forward.

That's why I'd do that trade

We keep the 2024 1st this year to get a good prospect, but after that, we'll be ready I think, with the player we'd go get with this trade

You saw Arpon Basu's podcast. There is some pressure on Montreal to take that next step. Finishing out of the playoffs for another 2 or 3 seasons is not acceptable.

The Habs need another forward.

That's why I'd do that trade

We keep the 2024 1st this year to get a good prospect, but after that, we'll be ready I think, with the player we'd go get with this trade

 

[NeptunesTrident]

I'd target Kent Johnson. Not sure what Columbus would want in return

 

[pth2]

I'd target Kent Johnson. Not sure what Columbus would want in return

Rebuilding teams have little reason to move promising young players, though.

 

[HuGo Sham]

Apparently hughes rebuffed at the TDL any trade offers for habs young Dmen.
I think they'll try for a Dach / Newhook type move this summer.
I don't think they'll chase as a UFA or trade for any forwards over 25.
Reinbacher has looked very good in a small sample size in Laval, and while They may give Hutson games at the end of the year, I think they both play in Laval next year.

there's 0 chance habs pick is in play yet, and certainly not till after the draft lottery. I wouldn't trade 5th overall for Zegras. If some teams move for a dman then Demidov or Lidstrom could be in play.

I believe Hughes will make the Winnipeg and Calgary 1sts available along with some of the 2nds + Barron who is out of waiver options, maybe Savard, Kovacevic and Harris.
I think they want to make room for Mailloux next season. He's having a great year in Laval.

If habs can go into the 24-25 year with slafkovsky ((who's getting better by the game) , Suzuki, Dach, Caufield + top 5 pick and a trade, they'll be in the mix for a wild card spot. I don't think they make it, but being competive next year, beyond losing so many 1-goal games, will be the priority

 

[FerrisRox]

If there’s one thing Montreal lacks, it’s an potentially elite 1C. Teams aren’t looking to give those away. Montreal had a chance at Michkov but chose the D instead.

Michkov isn't a centre.

 

[thefutures]

Kakko fits profile

 

[John Mandalorian]

Michkov isn't a centre.

Still? He was moved to C early in the year. Nevertheless, there were other viable C prospects there.

 

[Canadienna]

Habs have,

Left shot D: Matheson, Guhle, Xhekaj, Struble, Hutson and Harris.

Right shot D: Savard, Reinbacher, Barron, Mailloux and Kovacevic.

Every one of those players will be eyeing an NHL spot next year. They're not all going to make it, but it's also 11 guys, and one or two spending a year in Laval doesn't solve the problem.

So yeah Habs kind of have to move a few of these guys. Some team will get a promising young Dman for probably a cheap price.