Proposal: Habs package for speeding up the rebuild

[General Fanager]

I hate these dumb threads...
You don't rush a rebuild. Least 2-3 years more of sucking and drafting.

so maybe don't come into them and find one you enjoy? Also trading a few picks for a young guy like the Newhook or Dach deal isnt rushing.

If there’s one thing Montreal lacks, it’s an potentially elite 1C. Teams aren’t looking to give those away. Montreal had a chance at Michkov but chose the D instead.

So just let the gumbo cook for a while.

He isnt a center...

 

[General Fanager]

I want to compete next year and I'm ready to pay

I don't think they can. They will improve though.

 

[Noldo]

Could Kakko fit the profile Habs could be looking at?

Don’t know if there would be a match though. Rangers would get cap relief and future for their defense (assuming defensive prospect as the main piece).

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Could Kakko fit the profile Habs could be looking at?

Don’t know if there would be a match though. Rangers would get cap relief and future for their defense (assuming defensive prospect as the main piece).

I think he would. But don’t see the Habs giving up much. His style of play would fit with Dach.

Mesar/Struble + 2nd

 

[General Fanager]

Could Kakko fit the profile Habs could be looking at?

Don’t know if there would be a match though. Rangers would get cap relief and future for their defense (assuming defensive prospect as the main piece).

Personally I would say yes but probably not at the cost any Rangers fans would want....

 

[HabsAddict]

Personally I would say yes but probably not at the cost any Rangers fans would want....

For Ranger fans it would be Habs 1st

For Hab fans it would be a late 2nd.

It's somewhere in between.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

For Ranger fans it would be Habs 1st

For Hab fans it would be a late 2nd.

It's somewhere in between.

Wpg 1st?

 

[HabsAddict]

Wpg 1st?

If he is a 50-60 point winger, definatly.

If he's a 20-30 point winger, we got them growing in our garden.

I'm not sure where his real value lays and unless the higher powers see it's on the higher end, he's not worth trading for. We don't need another Armia or bottom 3.

 

[abo9]

I wanted to start a similar thread... but focused the other way around: not asking randomly for a forward, but trying to define who might be available for a package of futures.

Dach and Newhook fit a clear pattern: expired ELCs on teams that didn't want to commit to them long term, after they'd played 3 seasons for the teams that drafted them. Dach seems to have been available because of injury concerns (as well as tanking), whereas Colorado didn't want to commit very precious cap room to a guy who didn't seem to fill a clear role for them during their window (he'd clearly failed at filling the #2C role they really needed him to fill).

Looking at ELCs expiring this summer, the list becomes fairly short, there might be a dozen potential trade candidates that Montreal could make future-centered offers for.

Kaliyev and Lundell (if Florida's cap stays tight) would be the 2 guys I'd be calling to ask about, since they are the closest fits to the known pattern.


The GM has twice now shown an interest in acquiring players with some development already baked in (Newhook and Dach) and has also looked at getting higher-end prospects like Heinemann and Barron in trades. It's logical to think this trend might continue with Montreal having an extra first this year and next, and an extra second next year.

I wouldn't consider the Habs #1 pick to be on the table, but OP has his own view of things, of course.

Very rational way to look at things. I like the Lundell thoughts, we still need a future 2C - as much as it sucks, Dach isn't established yet due to injuries. Lundell if I'm not mistaken is a solid 2 way guy who showed some offensive potential in his rookie year.

And dealing with Florida has the video game GM in me think... maybe we can snatch Knight at the same time? Goalies are fickle, but one with his pedigree is still interesting

 

[BLNY]

I would say they need 2 forwards and somehow trade away a few anchors....

Gallagher - LTIRetirement. No one is taking that contract. He's got three years left and next year is the highest actual dollar amount at $9 million.

Anderson - I don't see anyone taking it this summer. If he can get back to a 20-25g per 82 game pace next year, maybe someone does. Still think it's unlikely.

Armia - he should be a TDL piece.

 

[abo9]

I would say they need 2 forwards and somehow trade away a few anchors....

The problem is that we need elite pieces. Slaf might become an elite winger. I dont consider Suzuki an elite center, so still need one (or another Suzuki, still a tough ask).

On D I really lime whats growing, but still need that elite first D to emerge.

And goalies I wont go into it.

And on top of that you got terrible contracts to Anderson and Gallagher blocking 11M.

 

[Baksfamous112]

You might be right. And for clarity, I'm not saying Montreal cant contend with Suzuki as a 1C. It's just that it would be somewhat of a bummer for them to not come put of their rebuild with that.

I might be wrong but Suzuki is still only 24 and has room to grow his game still. The “supporting cast” around him the past two years has been nothing but dead weight. I think he still has a step he can take and with better all-around team & teammates he could really be that 1C on a contender or at least be part of a good 1A/1B combo with Dach if he stay healthy.

Celibrini would/could also be a game changer.

Personally I would keep Mesar but Beck can be added for the right player...


wow for that pick it better be for someone amazing. Also I would not trade the pick before Its The Habs turn on the clock anyways. If they have a shot at Celebrini, Demidov or Lindstrom I am not so sure they would pass them up.....

For sure. No team is going to trade a top 5-6 pick for someone who isn’t worth it. There are multiple angles Montreal can take. They can target a cap strapped team, trade for a star who wants out (Hello Brady?) or work out a deal for a 25-26-27 years old who’s a year away from UFA and won’t sign with their current team for X, Y, Z reason (See the Tkachuk to Florida trade).

Maybe this scenario will present itself or maybe it won’t but I’m pretty sure Hughes will be open to moving our 2024 first for this type of trade. If there’s nothing there then so be it but I expect him to be super aggressive for this type of market

 

[Junohockeyfan]

If he is a 50-60 point winger, definatly.

If he's a 20-30 point winger, we got them growing in our garden.

I'm not sure where his real value lays and unless the higher powers see it's on the higher end, he's not worth trading for. We don't need another Armia or bottom 3.

If he's a 50-60 point winger, you won't get him for a late 1st. Not even close.

The problem is that we need elite pieces. Slaf might become an elite winger. I dont consider Suzuki an elite center, so still need one (or another Suzuki, still a tough ask).

On D I really lime whats growing, but still need that elite first D to emerge.

And goalies I wont go into it.

And on top of that you got terrible contracts to Anderson and Gallagher blocking 11M.

Suzuki has improved steadily every year he has been in the league. I expect that will continue for the next 3 years with the Habs overall team talent / depth improving. He's a 1C for sure.

 

[HabzSauce]

I hate these dumb threads...
You don't rush a rebuild. Least 2 years more of sucking and drafting.

I think our time of sucking is done. This is likely our last year drafting bottom 10.

Next year with a healthy Dach I can see us pushing for WC. I don't think Habs need to do anything crazy this summer besides maybe a trade involving some D (Harris, Barron, Kovacevic).

Summer of 2025 is when they should make some splashes. By then they should be transitioning from WC contender to a legitimate playoff team. Not that they will be expected to go deep but I think making playoffs at very least is their goal.

 

[bernmeister]

What I am looking for:

- Player must be 25 or younger
- Must be a forward, since goalies prospects are unreliable and we are already stacked up the ass with defensemen prospects


Habs would be willing to throw in:
- Habs 2025 1st, with no conditions attached to it
- Calgary 2025 1st
- Winnipeg 2024 1st
- Any prospect not named Hutson, Mailloux, Reinbacher, Beck, Mesar


Obviously, it's aimed at a rebuilding team who wants to speed-up their rebuild. For us, it's to get out of it.

I can see a big package getting you LaF (at top $) with other useful pieces . Howev, Reinbacher and other +s are non negotiable.

Am respecting OP parameters
When I have time later this wk or next will post in separate thread

 

[Baksfamous112]

I can see a big package getting you LaF (at top $) with other useful pieces . Howev, Reinbacher and other +s are non negotiable.

Am respecting OP parameters
When I have time later this wk or next will post in separate thread

I would love to get and I think he would be a good fit in Montreal but Reinbacher or Guhle going the other is a pipe dream. It’s not going to happen.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I think our time of sucking is done. This is likely our last year drafting bottom 10.

Next year with a healthy Dach I can see us pushing for WC. I don't think Habs need to do anything crazy this summer besides maybe a trade involving some D (Harris, Barron, Kovacevic).

Summer of 2025 is when they should make some splashes. By then they should be transitioning from WC contender to a legitimate playoff team. Not that they will be expected to go deep but I think making playoffs at very least is their goal.

Dach is the absolute key to the Habs progression. When healthy, we have a 2nd line. Without him, the Habs are a 1 x line team and that puts a lot of pressure on Suzuki.

 

[abo9]

If he's a 50-60 point winger, you won't get him for a late 1st. Not even close.


Suzuki has improved steadily every year he has been in the league. I expect that will continue for the next 3 years with the Habs overall team talent / depth improving. He's a 1C for sure.

If you mean a top 32 C, maybe. But if you populate the roster with a lower end 1C, a lower end 2C, lower end top pairing Ds, etc., you get a lower end team.

Thays why I mentioned, either an elite 1C, or a 2nd Suzuki (two lower end 1C is pretty solid after all).

Not a knock on him, he's just not a top 15C in the league.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

If you mean a top 32 C, maybe. But if you populate the roster with a lower end 1C, a lower end 2C, lower end top pairing Ds, etc., you get a lower end team.

Thays why I mentioned, either an elite 1C, or a 2nd Suzuki (two lower end 1C is pretty solid after all).

Not a knock on him, he's just not a top 15C in the league.

Problem with your analysis is that you are assuming Suzuki is in his final form. He's not. He's shown significant improvement on all areas of his game every year he's been in the league. This will continue - especially when the Habs get secondary scoring from the 2nd line. Also with CC and Slaf continuing to improve offensively (in the coming seasons), it will increase Suzuki's offensive numbers.

Suzuki is currently a 1C with room to become an elite or upper-level two-way 1C.

 

[Mrb1p]

The problem is that we need elite pieces. Slaf might become an elite winger. I dont consider Suzuki an elite center, so still need one (or another Suzuki, still a tough ask).

On D I really lime whats growing, but still need that elite first D to emerge.

And goalies I wont go into it.

And on top of that you got terrible contracts to Anderson and Gallagher blocking 11M.

Suzuki is 14th in production this year for Cs, while being better than most of those defensively and while having no offensive support. What does elite mean to you?

 

[Ezpz]

I'd wait to see how the lottery plays out. Right now we're picking 5th which would definitely leave us with a forward who can contribute within a couple of years. If they feel it's Celebrini or bust then yeah, but there's not a lot of young forwards who are definitely tracking well that are available and the ones who are probably aren't worth a 5th overall+

Zegras for example is injured, played poorly this year, and doesn't have cost certainty long term. It would be very Drouin-esque to bet on him with such a high price. And to be honest, in this era, 60 points is practically equal to the 50 Drouin put up ten years ago. Even now Drou is in the optimal situation frequently getting ES and PP time with two 100-point players (one is likely going to finish closer to 140) and probably isn't going to crack 50 in a higher scoring era.

The truth is the picks hold value to fans and GMs because the player isn't flawed yet. Kent Johnson would be a great buy low, but no team is offering a top 10+ pick for a guy who's going to miss half a year injured. We got Dach for a 13th overall in an all-time weak draft a few years after he was picked 3rd in a top 2 draft of the decade.

I would have said Pettersson before the season would make sense for that sort of package, but Vancouver went all-in on their core and it has paid off.

There's so few teams that are trying to move into the rebuilding stage currently though that I don't see an option out there. You've got so many fringe teams like the Islanders, Detroit, Nashville, Minnesota, Ottawa, Buffalo, St. Louis, Washington, LA, etc that are desperately trying to be playoff teams despite some having aging cores.

The package you're offering is the base of a deal for a guy like Pastrnak who is the sole young forward star on an aging team, not that we'll ever trade with the Bruins and the Bruins are refusing to die. They filled all their holes with 25-28 year old journeymen and seem to have replicated their success to the point that they're not even that old.

Kaprisov is another but Minnesota re-signed their entire team basically during this season and Faber's magical breakout gives them a solid core to build around.

None of these guys are on teams that are "done".

 

[TGWL]

Offer Sam Reinhart big money.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I'd wait to see how the lottery plays out. Right now we're picking 5th which would definitely leave us with a forward who can contribute within a couple of years. If they feel it's Celebrini or bust then yeah, but there's not a lot of young forwards who are definitely tracking well that are available and the ones who are probably aren't worth a 5th overall+

Zegras for example is injured, played poorly this year, and doesn't have cost certainty long term. It would be very Drouin-esque to bet on him with such a high price. And to be honest, in this era, 60 points is practically equal to the 50 Drouin put up ten years ago. Even now Drou is in the optimal situation frequently getting ES and PP time with two 100-point players (one is likely going to finish closer to 140) and probably isn't going to crack 50 in a higher scoring era.

The truth is the picks hold value to fans and GMs because the player isn't flawed yet. Kent Johnson would be a great buy low, but no team is offering a top 10+ pick for a guy who's going to miss half a year injured. We got Dach for a 13th overall in an all-time weak draft a few years after he was picked 3rd in a top 2 draft of the decade.

I would have said Pettersson before the season would make sense for that sort of package, but Vancouver went all-in on their core and it has paid off.

There's so few teams that are trying to move into the rebuilding stage currently though that I don't see an option out there. You've got so many fringe teams like the Islanders, Detroit, Nashville, Minnesota, Ottawa, Buffalo, St. Louis, Washington, LA, etc that are desperately trying to be playoff teams despite some having aging cores.

The package you're offering is the base of a deal for a guy like Pastrnak who is the sole young forward star on an aging team, not that we'll ever trade with the Bruins and the Bruins are refusing to die. They filled all their holes with 25-28 year old journeymen and seem to have replicated their success to the point that they're not even that old.

Kaprisov is another but Minnesota re-signed their entire team basically during this season and Faber's magical breakout gives them a solid core to build around.

None of these guys are on teams that are "done".

I agree, i don't see how the 5th overall (or 6th) can be in play. That's an overpayment for Zegras who i agree is Drouin-esque. Habs are better of drafting with the 5th overall pick and trading the Wpg 1st for a 23-25 years old help-now type of forward (like a Kakko)

 

[Hobnobs]

I hate these dumb threads...
You don't rush a rebuild. Least 2 years more of sucking and drafting.

Wouldn't really be "rushing the rebuild" but adding a piece to help make the rebuild stronger. Trading a magic bean for a more proven magic bean is not really that terrible for a rebuild. Especially not when the draft is shallow.

What's the point of having three draft picks if the draft turns out like the 99 draft? Ask the Isles how that feels. (Not saying it'll be that bad but you should get the point)

 

[HabsAddict]

Easy solution that doesn't cost assets...sign Reinhart.

Problem is that he will be in his early 30s before we can compatet and late 30s by the time the core starts aging.