Goodenow Leaves New York, No Deal - per TSN, 590

hyena · Feb 4, 2005

just to clarify -- do they have to have an official announcement to cancel the season? i mean, does gary have to call a BoG meeting to do it, or could they just let the season slip away?

Vic Rattlehead* · Feb 4, 2005

I actually can see Bettman call an end to the season on Sunday, when many people will be focused on the Superbowl.

TruGr1t · Feb 4, 2005

hyena said:
just to clarify -- do they have to have an official announcement to cancel the season? i mean, does gary have to call a BoG meeting to do it, or could they just let the season slip away?

Mckenzie, Burke and 'the village idiot' spoke about this on the most recent panel. They said there would be certain warning signs that the season would be cancelled and they had seen none of these yet. This included a BoG meeting. Though Bettman isn't required to call one, he most certainly will if the season is to be cancelled.

ChiHawks468 · Feb 4, 2005

hyena said:
just to clarify -- do they have to have an official announcement to cancel the season? i mean, does gary have to call a BoG meeting to do it, or could they just let the season slip away?

I have heard that he doesn't have to call a BOG meeting but that he most likely will before making the public announcement.

old kummelweck · Feb 4, 2005

It's my sense that they will not cancel the season any time soon, becuase as soon as they do, the urgency to get this resolved before next season disappears, at least from the NHL's perspective. If it doesn't get resolved next week, it will bleed into mid March before everyone looks around and says "hey, there is no way you can play a meaningful season now" and then the NHL will cancel.

SJeasy · Feb 4, 2005

[email protected] said:
It's my sense that they will not cancel the season any time soon, becuase as soon as they do, the urgency to get this resolved before next season disappears, at least from the NHL's perspective. If it doesn't get resolved next week, it will bleed into mid March before everyone looks around and says "hey, there is no way you can play a meaningful season now" and then the NHL will cancel.

I agree. As long as Bettman thinks Goodenow is dealine hunting, he will try to leave him hang so that he can get over this before next season. That includes agreeing and then going out immediately to cancel the season. The logistics for a season at this point are too difficult.

PeterSidorkiewicz · Feb 4, 2005

All I know is that im so fricken frustrated with this ordeal already. I just wanna watch some NHL hockey.

Jussi · Feb 4, 2005

mr gib said:
he should be - gary bettman is trying to bust the union - its quite plain to see - the players have to hang tough -

An we're all hoping they do... :shakehead

CH Wizard · Feb 4, 2005

I hope Bettman and Goodenow are proud of em'.

Donnie D · Feb 4, 2005

Folks, you get your hopes up when things are going bad and now you get down in the dumps when things are improving.

Here is what happened over the past 2 days, no source, just logic.

As I said on an earlier post, both sides went in to see if the other would blink. The owners on one side have had no cracks, not a hint. Yes, the big honking fine keeps them from complaining publicly, but you have not heard anything, not one sound of any owner complaining behind the scenes. And if the owners were unhappy, someone would be talking to the national media where they could speak freely without being identified.

On the other side, you have the players. They are beginning to crack. Not a landslide by any means, but players beginning to speak out. I really thought Bob would throw away the season, but his employers (the players) want a deal. Today, in what I think was the biggest indication of problems, the mouthpiece for the union (Brooks) comes out and says, in effect, folks you got it all wrong. The players would have accepted a cap, its just that the commissioner wasn't smart enough to offer the right kind of cap. If it wasn't tied to revenues, the players would accept it. It's not the players fault that there was a lockout, the players didn't cave, it's the commissioner's fault. He wasn't smart enough to offer the right kind of hard cap.

Out of Chicago we hear the same thing, Philly, Tampa. Damage control is out full force. The players are caving. The players have given on the cap over the past 2 days and they are trying to spin it in the best light possible. They are now negotiating the details. The owners continue to push and the union, in a scene worthy of an academy award, stomps out of the meeting, in full view, for everyone to see. I have been in these types of negotiations before, stomping out is a trick designed to get the other side to say, "come back we'll make concessions". It's very unsettling to have it happen when you are so close to settlement. But the owners aren't rookies, they let Bob walk, knowing that in a day or two they can restart the communications and get it finished.

My reasons for believing this? If they were truly that far apart and it was hopeless, they would be busy trashing the other side, making them the bad guy for the season being cancelled. The owners would be ending the season.

But that isn't happening is it? The owners are making sure not to piss off the players, they are making nice. Why you ask? They are putting the hammer to the players and they don't want to rub their face in it.

If I am not right, you will see the season cancelled the next couple of days. If I am right, they will begin talking on Super bowl Sunday or Monday.

My guess, based upon what I see, is that we are in better shape tonight than we have been.

thistle · Feb 4, 2005

Donnie D said:
Folks, you get your hopes up when things are going bad and now you get down in the dumps when things are going good.

Here is what happened over the past 2 days, no source, just logic.

As I said on an earlier post, both sides went in to see if the other would blink. The owners on one side have had no cracks, not a hint. Yes, the big honking fine keeps them from complaining publicly, but you have not heard anything, not one sound of any owner complaining behind the scenes. And if the owners were unhappy, someone would be talking to the national media where they could speak freely without being identified.

On the other side, you have the players. They are beginning to crack. Not a landslide by any means, but players beginning to speak out. Today, in what I think was the biggest indication of problems, the mouthpiece for the union (Brooks)comes out and says, in effect, folks you got it all wrong. The players would accept a cap, its just that the commissioner didn't offer the right kind of cap. If it wasn't tied to revenues, the players would accept it. It's not the players fault that there was a lockout, the players didn't cave, it's the owners fault. They weren't smart enough to offer the right kind of hard cap.

Out of Chicago we hear the same thing, Philly, Tampa. Damage control is out full force. The players are caving. The players have given on the cap over the past 2 days and they are trying to spin it in the best light possible. They are now negotiating the details. The owners continue to push and the union, in a scene worthy of an academy award stomps out of the meeting, in full view, for everyone to see. I have been in these types of negotiations before, stomping out is a trick designed to get the other side to say, "come back we'll make concessions". It's very unsettling to have it happen when you are so close to settlement. But the owners aren't rookies, they let Bob walk, knowing that in a day or two they can restart the communication and get it finished.

My reasons for believing this? If they were truly that far apart and it was hopeless, they would be busy trashing the other side, making them the bad guy for the season being cancelled. The owners would be ending the season.

But that isn't happening is it? The owners are making sure not to piss off the players, they are making nice. Why you ask? They are putting the hammer to the players and they don't want to rub their face in it.

If I am not right, you will see the season cancelled the next couple of days. If I am right, they will begin talking on Super bowl Sunday or Monday.

This isn't done, but it's darn close.

This post in itself puncuates the admiration I have for bargainers / negotiators at any level. Its an art form and they are playing it to a tee, both sides. As pissed off as I am about missing hockey and all the crap that goes with this lockout, I am impressed with these mind-games they are playing. You have to at least respect their savy. Don't believe the hype people, a season there will be.

mr gib · Feb 4, 2005

Jussi said:
An we're all hoping they do...

so you don't think there should be a fair deal?

WHARF1940 · Feb 4, 2005

Donnie D said:
Folks, you get your hopes up when things are going bad and now you get down in the dumps when things are improving.

Here is what happened over the past 2 days, no source, just logic.

As I said on an earlier post, both sides went in to see if the other would blink. The owners on one side have had no cracks, not a hint. Yes, the big honking fine keeps them from complaining publicly, but you have not heard anything, not one sound of any owner complaining behind the scenes. And if the owners were unhappy, someone would be talking to the national media where they could speak freely without being identified.

On the other side, you have the players. They are beginning to crack. Not a landslide by any means, but players beginning to speak out. I really thought Bob would throw away the season, but his employers (the players) want a deal. Today, in what I think was the biggest indication of problems, the mouthpiece for the union (Brooks) comes out and says, in effect, folks you got it all wrong. The players would have accepted a cap, its just that the commissioner wasn't smart enough to offer the right kind of cap. If it wasn't tied to revenues, the players would accept it. It's not the players fault that there was a lockout, the players didn't cave, it's the commissioner's fault. He wasn't smart enough to offer the right kind of hard cap.

Out of Chicago we hear the same thing, Philly, Tampa. Damage control is out full force. The players are caving. The players have given on the cap over the past 2 days and they are trying to spin it in the best light possible. They are now negotiating the details. The owners continue to push and the union, in a scene worthy of an academy award, stomps out of the meeting, in full view, for everyone to see. I have been in these types of negotiations before, stomping out is a trick designed to get the other side to say, "come back we'll make concessions". It's very unsettling to have it happen when you are so close to settlement. But the owners aren't rookies, they let Bob walk, knowing that in a day or two they can restart the communications and get it finished.

My reasons for believing this? If they were truly that far apart and it was hopeless, they would be busy trashing the other side, making them the bad guy for the season being cancelled. The owners would be ending the season.

But that isn't happening is it? The owners are making sure not to piss off the players, they are making nice. Why you ask? They are putting the hammer to the players and they don't want to rub their face in it.

If I am not right, you will see the season cancelled the next couple of days. If I am right, they will begin talking on Super bowl Sunday or Monday.

My guess, based upon what I see, is that we are in better shape tonight than we have been.

Most intelligent post here today!!! :handclap:

snakepliskin · Feb 4, 2005

thistle said:
This post in itself puncuates the admiration I have for bargainers / negotiators at any level. Its an art form and they are playing it to a tee, both sides. As pissed off as I am about missing hockey and all the crap that goes with this lockout, I am impressed with these mind-games they are playing. You have to at least respect their savy. Don't believe the hype people, a season there will be.

you sir are a TRUE BELIEVER! but i now believe the owners are out to break the union to their collective bargaining knees and will not compromise or relent until they are good and ready-which i believe to be a good thing---if the players had re-opened the cba in 2001 when the owners requested it we would not be in this stink but the union thumbed their noses at their employers and now "payback is hell" if a union ever needed to be broken to pieces for being greedy bastards it is this one! GO OWNERS!

Leafer4Life · Feb 4, 2005

No progress and they met all those hours! This is truly sad and disappointing......... :cry:

snakepliskin · Feb 4, 2005

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?id=1984522 iknow it is espn but a pretty good read

skellart · Feb 4, 2005

Bettman & Goodnow sittin in a tree-FOR 13 HOURS WITHOUT DOING A DAMN THING. :madfire:

sorry but I'm out. I can't take this any more. besides, I have to go to sleep cause my son has a hockey game tomorrow. It's not the best game I've seen recently, it's the best game I've ever seen. You see, "NHL Big Shots" these kids play with heart. Thats something you know nothing about anymore.

KOVALEV10* · Feb 5, 2005

Damit man my nephew was right... god there wont be a season :cry:

SENSible1* · Feb 5, 2005

Donnie D said:
Folks, you get your hopes up when things are going bad and now you get down in the dumps when things are improving.

Here is what happened over the past 2 days, no source, just logic.

As I said on an earlier post, both sides went in to see if the other would blink. The owners on one side have had no cracks, not a hint. Yes, the big honking fine keeps them from complaining publicly, but you have not heard anything, not one sound of any owner complaining behind the scenes. And if the owners were unhappy, someone would be talking to the national media where they could speak freely without being identified.

On the other side, you have the players. They are beginning to crack. Not a landslide by any means, but players beginning to speak out. I really thought Bob would throw away the season, but his employers (the players) want a deal. Today, in what I think was the biggest indication of problems, the mouthpiece for the union (Brooks) comes out and says, in effect, folks you got it all wrong. The players would have accepted a cap, its just that the commissioner wasn't smart enough to offer the right kind of cap. If it wasn't tied to revenues, the players would accept it. It's not the players fault that there was a lockout, the players didn't cave, it's the commissioner's fault. He wasn't smart enough to offer the right kind of hard cap.

Out of Chicago we hear the same thing, Philly, Tampa. Damage control is out full force. The players are caving. The players have given on the cap over the past 2 days and they are trying to spin it in the best light possible. They are now negotiating the details. The owners continue to push and the union, in a scene worthy of an academy award, stomps out of the meeting, in full view, for everyone to see. I have been in these types of negotiations before, stomping out is a trick designed to get the other side to say, "come back we'll make concessions". It's very unsettling to have it happen when you are so close to settlement. But the owners aren't rookies, they let Bob walk, knowing that in a day or two they can restart the communications and get it finished.

My reasons for believing this? If they were truly that far apart and it was hopeless, they would be busy trashing the other side, making them the bad guy for the season being cancelled. The owners would be ending the season.

But that isn't happening is it? The owners are making sure not to piss off the players, they are making nice. Why you ask? They are putting the hammer to the players and they don't want to rub their face in it.

If I am not right, you will see the season cancelled the next couple of days. If I am right, they will begin talking on Super bowl Sunday or Monday.

My guess, based upon what I see, is that we are in better shape tonight than we have been.

A very insightful post. The PA is caving, if Bettman plays his cards right things should be resolved in the next week.

If things do break off and get ugly with Goodenow, it is time for the sugar cap deal to force a vote. If they don't get ugly, just continue to grind him down while the players sweat it out.

ResidentAlien* · Feb 5, 2005

LordStanley said:
I don't think there's time either. I know its very unlikely, but maybe Bettman is just shooting for some type of playoff tournament? It would upset a lot of fans, but he might prefer it to canceling since it would probably be a hit among less "serious" fans, and help to increase interest in the game. If thats the case, these negotiations could go on for weeks.

:lol :lol

Bruno8 · Feb 5, 2005

kmad said:
The killer awoke before dawn, he put his boots on
He took a face from the ancient gallery
And he walked on down the hall
He went into the room where his sister lived, and...then he
Paid a visit to his brother, and then he
He walked on down the hall, and
And he came to a door...and he looked inside
Goodenow, yes son, I want to kill you
Bettman...i want to...

Good one!..I love the Doors.
It's unfortunately appropriate though.

Poignant Discussion* · Feb 5, 2005

KOVALEV10 said:
Man I hate those ****in greedy players. You're making millions and millions a year playing a freaking game you love while most fans wont even make the ammount of money they are making each year in our whole lifetime!

Man I hate fickle fans who as soon as this crap is over will be bragging about your favorite player.

I would love to see the players say "listen look at what our fans are saying about us, maybe we will take less money and play in Europe where they appreciate us"

Enjoy watching your scabs, it will be great fun to pay 50 bucks to watch beer league talent. Then again you root for the jersey, not the player I forgot

Poignant Discussion* · Feb 5, 2005

free0717 said:
The players have to fire Goodenow and bring in someone else. Goodenow job was to get a deal with no cap and Goodenow as long as he is head of the Union will never agree to it no matter what his constituancy wants.

:lol

His constituancy refuses to play under a cap system. Get it through your head

And as long as the NHL keeps it on their agenda there won't be any NHL hockey

And if this season and next gets cancelled, there won't be anymore NHL

Both sides have lots to lose 2.2 Billion at last count per season

"If you do not like the conditions you are playing under then just leave. By signing into the NHL you should have thought about the working conditions."

They signed contracts under the old CBA. The NHL doesn't want to grandfather in anything. They want to go back on and change a VALID CONTRACT

Good luck with that too

Steve L* · Feb 5, 2005

NataSatan666 said:
:lol

His constituancy refuses to play under a cap system. Get it through your head

How do you know that, do you have access to the NHLPA website vote results?

jcab2000 · Feb 5, 2005

NataSatan666 said:
:lol

His constituancy refuses to play under a cap system. Get it through your head

And as long as the NHL keeps it on their agenda there won't be any NHL hockey

And if this season and next gets cancelled, there won't be anymore NHL

Both sides have lots to lose 2.2 Billion at last count per season

"If you do not like the conditions you are playing under then just leave. By signing into the NHL you should have thought about the working conditions."

They signed contracts under the old CBA. The NHL doesn't want to grandfather in anything. They want to go back on and change a VALID CONTRACT

Good luck with that too

The owners don't have $2.2 billion to lose, since they pay most of that to players. What contract do they want to change?

Goodenow Leaves New York, No Deal - per TSN, 590

Registered User

Vic Rattlehead*

Guest

Proper Villain

Registered User

Registered User

Registered User

HFWF Tourney Undisputed Champion

Registered User

CH Wizard

Guest

Registered User

Registered User

Registered User

Registered User

Registered User

Go Leafs Go!

Registered User

Registered User

KOVALEV10*

Guest

SENSible1*

Guest

ResidentAlien*

Guest

Registered User

I tell it like it is

I tell it like it is

Registered User

Registered User

Ad

Ad

Ad