they did.....but green caught up to the bus about three blocks away from barclays.
Goaltending, defense
- Thread starter Crazy Cizikas
- Start date
Gerard
Registered User
YearlyLottery
The Pooch Report
Out of all the things to blame the goaltending issues on, coaching is not one of them. This coaching staff has a top 3 offense in the league.
Since when did hockey become all about offense? Yes you can blame them for it. Even Capuano had several systems he would pull from while he was here.
When we lose we don’t usually lose 1 goal games, we get blown out.
Look, I get your point. We lost plenty of 3-1, 3-2 games under Cappy too. We always gave up a ton of shots against, been doing that since Nabokov was in net for us and we still do. What I’m saying is I think we have the players to outscore any team in the leagu (find a way to get Ho-Sang back here and cut down on his rink tours and we become a 3 line team again). Some of the defensive woes are systems, most of it is bad goaltending.
is it worth it to call up Gibson and give him a start or 2? Every team has an AHL goalie who seems to put up really good stats, however our goalies have pretty weak stats, however are they really that much worse than Halak or Greiss? I just cant take seeing these guys stink it up and give a lousy performance, if anything maybe calling up Gibson will get them on their toes and make them play better
LeapOnOver
Mackenzie is a hack!
That's like saying you can't blame the chef because the appetizers sucked while the steak was delicious. The coaching staff is responsible for all facets, and goaltending is directly tied to defense, especially if the coaches are not communicating and on the same page. Goaltenders have different styles and every defense coach and goaltending coach get together to decide what defensive style maximizes the skill of their goaltender. (seeing the puck vs. not seeing, strong sides, blocking etc). Nobody gets an out for this crappy defense.
Tres Peleches
Johnny Turncoat
- Jul 13, 2011
- 8,427
- 6,785
While I can understand why one would think that defense is not part of the game from watching the Islanders play all year, it's not supposed to be that way
The Isles need to learn how to adjust their game for the situation they are in. Arbour's teams, especially the Cup teams, could always do that.
The Isles get way too loosey goosey in the high scoring affair games. As an example, the Isles need to come out fast and try and get a couple of goals; but if they do, they need to then play opportunistic hockey, where D takes over and you wait for the other team to make mistakes on which they can then capitalize. I'm not saying to go into a shell, but go into a mode where you are not making neutral zone risky passes, and if you don't have the center zone, dump and chase, but ensure line coverage.
They need to also play smarter. Some of the decisions made by the Isles on a regular basis are mind boggling. Blind passes when you are the high man, icings for no reason, playing the puck and not the body, getting cute in your own zone after being pressured for a minute and should be concerned with just clearing the zone, etc.
Another thing, and they finally displayed this vs WIN the other night, was to hit high scoring, fast teams hard and often. It slows them down and wears them out.
Finally, Weight and staff need to do something about their lack of focus after scoring a goal. It seems like every time they score, the opponent scores almost immediately. And their inability to hold a one goal lead late in games is a glaring weakness. Some of this must be mental.
My two cents....
The Isles get way too loosey goosey in the high scoring affair games. As an example, the Isles need to come out fast and try and get a couple of goals; but if they do, they need to then play opportunistic hockey, where D takes over and you wait for the other team to make mistakes on which they can then capitalize. I'm not saying to go into a shell, but go into a mode where you are not making neutral zone risky passes, and if you don't have the center zone, dump and chase, but ensure line coverage.
They need to also play smarter. Some of the decisions made by the Isles on a regular basis are mind boggling. Blind passes when you are the high man, icings for no reason, playing the puck and not the body, getting cute in your own zone after being pressured for a minute and should be concerned with just clearing the zone, etc.
Another thing, and they finally displayed this vs WIN the other night, was to hit high scoring, fast teams hard and often. It slows them down and wears them out.
Finally, Weight and staff need to do something about their lack of focus after scoring a goal. It seems like every time they score, the opponent scores almost immediately. And their inability to hold a one goal lead late in games is a glaring weakness. Some of this must be mental.
My two cents....
YearlyLottery
The Pooch Report
Goaltending, goaltending goaltending. My original post had nothing to do with defense,
The systems were making Greiss and Halak let in unusually weak goals?
Once again you are missing the point. Any defense in the world is going to let guys skate to the outside and take a shot rather than cutting it up the middle. But when your goaltender can't save those it is not on the defense.
All three of you are going to tell me with a straight face that the goaltending is on the defense this year? It is a mix of both, but about 75% mix of goaltending.
majormet
Registered User
I think the defense has been better than expected in that I really don't see habitual problems outside of Mayfield on most nights, Hickey with decisions and Seids with age..... Greiss is bad
Goalies 65% (mostly Greiss)
Defense 20% (Mayfield/Seids/Hickey Mouse)
Forwards 15% (Mostly JHS and a lot on Anders lee of late)
YearlyLottery
The Pooch Report
Correct, and APS even stated that you can change the systems but the problem in net will likely remain... So again, somebody explain to me how that has ANYTHING to do with the coaching staff?
SI
Registered User
- Feb 16, 2013
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- 3,988
This bad stretch has seen Isles playing from behind. They're getting outscored a lot in the 1st.
Let's see how the team responds - PK also needs to be a lot better.
Unfortunately I don't see a whole lot of available options around the league on either the blue line or between the pipes at this point. I think we'll need to look for Halak to get hot and the team to play better systemic defense in front of him.
As far as possible upgrades go I guess I'm hoping for a legit 3C to stabilize the 3rd line and possibly a solid d-man (although I have no clue where they'll find that).
As far as possible upgrades go I guess I'm hoping for a legit 3C to stabilize the 3rd line and possibly a solid d-man (although I have no clue where they'll find that).
I'm not sure how you assigned 20% blame to the defense and 15% to the forwards. Even more perplexing is you can say the forwards share is mostly on JHS who was sent down 2 weeks ago and we continue to lay eggs with the exception of the last game. Ponderous.
What I have noticed is that aside from the poor goaltending which is the biggest problem, our team defense has been a problem. On different nights it's different players with the biggest gaffes. Some nights where Tavares shows indifferent play, some nights where Adam Pelech is being exposed. It's also systemic problems not limited to being unable to or unwilling to have a forward step into an opposing player to slow them down on a play going the other way, not being able to box out the opponent down low in our zone and instead just chasing the puck, not having active sticks on the PK to name a few. So I don't know how you can say you don't see habitual problems with the defense. They're there and they're there with the forwards too.
Since he’s come up around here... ESPN.com asked players about the most underrated (The Frans Nielsen Award) and OEL came up a few times.
majormet
Registered User
I should have not singled out JHS but forwards in general and you are right it is about communication between the D and forwards, which reeks of systemic issues, 2 guys going to the same man, backing off and not realizing how deep they are... I think defense and forwards are very close in blame, how many times does Butch have to say the forward should have picked up his man. I think in order to generate as much offense as we are, we are sacrificing on defense by having forwards cheat and creep out on breaks, why Lee is often the culprit
I did say Goalies were 65% of the issue, which is in agreement with you. JHS is the glaring menace when he had suite up as a forward but lately it is almost anyone that does not wear a #53 on his jersey. I don't see the same dman making the same mistakes over and over outside of Mayfield going backwards or Hickey tapping the puck instead of clearing.
LeapOnOver
Mackenzie is a hack!
My face is straight. It's about 60/40. The defense (all skaters) has left guys open in front of the net an uncountable amount of times. They haven't all gone in because of the goaltending. There have been so many poor lapses in coverage its laughable. Problem is, people only remember the guys rushing up the side and beating a goalie five hole (Marchand) but they completely forget the times that he's stoned a guy wide open in front (Ovechkin, two wide open players in the Peg game). So of course its easy to continue to blame the goalie, but you cannot ignore the times the goalie bails out our shoddy defense. In this modern era there should not be nearly as many odd man rushes as the Islanders give up. The goalies need to stop more of them than they have, but the defense has to eliminate more of them than they have. So again, 60% on goalies, 40% on defense with a straight face.
YearlyLottery
The Pooch Report
This is a completely different argument you were making and you are beginning to align with my beliefs on the situation. You did not even bring up the coaching once in your post.
Jester9881
Registered User
The goalies are letting in some softies, but largely you've got young defensemen leaving their area to chase the puck and a decimated (defensive) forward group not talented enough to plug the holes they are leaving. The defense could fix itself with experience and more help from the forwards. With that comes less goals against. They need at least one more defensive minded forward to round out the bottom six and PK and cover some of the warts in the young group of defensemen.
That’s a good idea. We could sacrifice a little O for some flexibility on D. But you don’t want to sit anyone from the top six or anyone from the defensive fourth line. So someone from the third line should sit for a decent defenseman. Then, we gotta double shift Tavares and hope he can handle the extra minutes.
majormet
Registered User
As a complete aside, I love how Mayfield has been playing. He gets better every game.
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