GM Ron Hextall

[Ghosts Beer]

That's half our PPGA. He's really having a terrible season. Even by his standards.
Also confirms what a bad signing Gordon was. Him and Weise.

Indeed, MacDonald has just been a disaster in every respect.

And yes, both UFA signings were terrible. At least Gordon is under $1M and only a 1 year deal. Weise getting 4 years and $2.35M to fill a role an AHLer could fill is pathetic.

 

[Rebels57]

Indeed, MacDonald has just been a disaster in every respect.

And yes, both UFA signings were terrible. At least Gordon is under $1M and only a 1 year deal. Weise getting 4 years and $2.35M to fill a role an AHLer could fill is pathbetic.

Or maybe Weise will find a groove here and provide very good 3rd line production here like he did for Montreal?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Or maybe Weise will find a groove here and provide very good 3rd line production here like he did for Montreal?

That would be nice. But he's got 0 goals and 3 assists in his last 30 games, and hasn't shown anything to suggest he's suddenly going to start producing at a very good 3rd line rate, so I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Curufinwe]

Vandevelde's only been on the ice for 3 goals against in 39:49 of PK time.

While some may not like how he looks on the PK, he hasn't been the reason for their low kill percentage so far this season.

Boyd Gordon has been on the PK for 5 goals against in only 15 minutes of time; Andrew MacDonald 6 in 28 minutes.

MacDonald's PK Corsi For is 3.77%; Gordon's is 5.13%.

Vandevelde is 11.11%; Bellemare is 9.62%; Couturier and Simmonds are a terrific 20.93% an 21.88%, respectively. Gudas leads the D with 15.71%, while Manning and Provorov are 13.16% and 13.13%.

CF% is not a particularly relevant stat on the PK. CA60 is what's important, but the sample size is far too small to make judgements on. Only seven guys have played 25 minutes.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...=25&teamid=22&type=corsi&sort=A60&sortdir=ASC

 

[Ghosts Beer]

CF% is not a particularly relevant stat on the PK. CA60 is what's important, but the sample size is far too small to make judgements on. Only seven guys have played 25 minutes.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...=25&teamid=22&type=corsi&sort=A60&sortdir=ASC

Would seem to me if you have a really low CF% on the PK you aren't getting the puck out of your own end much, and those with higher CF% on the PK are doing a better job disrupting the PP's possession.

 

[Curufinwe]

Preventing shots is much more important than generating shots on the PK.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I like to see evidence of PKers who don't spend the whole kill pinned in the defensive zone. That's where CF% gives a better view than just CA. If you let a power play control the puck offensively the whole time, regardless of whether they are taking shots or looking for the perfect play, you probably aren't doing a great job on the kill. Just a personal preference. Neither is a perfect stat for the PK by any means.

 

[CodyTheHuman]

I'd play G on PK. Maybe he would get involved.

And G likes being on the PK and is good at it.

 

[Curufinwe]

I'm happy resting Giroux. Couturier, Read, Raffl, Lyubmiov and Laughton when he's back up should be getting more PK time.

 

[Curufinwe]

Meltzer has a good summary of Hextall's remarks to the media last night.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill...-5-2-Hextall-on-Roster-Moves-and-WJC/45/81855

The GM said, for the same reason, he is not going to rush into an assessment of whether the Flyers will look to add pieces this season or potentially look to acquire assets for current players. He did repeat his usual mantra of having no interest in quick-fixes in exchange for young players or high-end Draft pick assets.

“The biggest mistake you can do is judge your team on short stretches. If you judge your team on 10 games or six, seven games since, you’re not going to make very good decisions so we’ll continue to monitor our team, where we’re at, and our strengths and weaknesses as we go along here. But I’ll say the same thing here. I don’t anticipate us adding something short-term," Hextall said.

 

[bb12]

The best thing hex can do this summer is not resign any of the ufa forwards.
Make a decision on manning being protected or resigning mdz
Giving the kids a roster spot.

 

[Tripod]

The best thing hex can do this summer is not resign any of the ufa forwards.
Make a decision on manning being protected or resigning mdz
Giving the kids a roster spot.

No UFA....forward, D or goalie, are proving worth re-signing.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

No UFA....forward, D or goalie, are proving worth re-signing.

Buying out Umberger and giving the freed up money to Weise doesn't look all that much better.

 

[Branko]

No UFA....forward, D or goalie, are proving worth re-signing.

I think one of the goalies need to be re-signed. I wouldn't feel very comfortable with two rookies in net next year.

Also, I was against this in the beginning of the year, but since MDZ took a **** this year, I would re-sign Streit. Assuming he takes a paycut, I think his experience and leadership would go a long way for our young D prospects.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

I think one of the goalies need to be re-signed. I wouldn't feel very comfortable with two rookies in net next year.

Also, I was against this in the beginning of the year, but since MDZ took a **** this year, I would re-sign Streit. Assuming he takes a paycut, I think his experience and leadership would go a long way for our young D prospects.

Streit is about to be 40 and have a baby, not sure he will want to stick around for another season.

 

[tade]

Indeed, MacDonald has just been a disaster in every respect.

And yes, both UFA signings were terrible. At least Gordon is under $1M and only a 1 year deal. Weise getting 4 years and $2.35M to fill a role an AHLer could fill is pathetic.

He still can prove that he's worth his contract, he's big disappointment so far, for sure, but the most important years will be the 2nd and 3rd of his contract, that's about when we should start being contenders (at least we hope so).

The thing that I have always disliked about Weise signing was the lenght. I would be very okay with 3 years but instead he's been signed for 4 years.

Let's see how he does towards this years play-off run. He's showed that he can be effective player for the team, unlike now, let's hope for the good. He can rebound. He's still relatively young player.

 

[deadhead]

Looking at advanced stats:

CF%rel - Read 5.5, Couts 3.3, Raffl 2.7, Weise 1.6
GF%rel - Raffl 12.4, Konecny 8.7, Read 6.9, Luby 5.9, Weise 4.5

CF%rel - Leier -5.6, Schenn -4.6, Gordon -3.7, PEB -2.6, Simmonds -2.2
GF%rel - Gordon -31.8, VdV -10.7, Voracek -9.1, Leier -5.9, Schenn -3.4

Weise may not be scoring, but neither does the other team when he's on the ice, and he's a solid possession winger - I think he needs the right linemates to play with for a while to get into a groove, but he's playing better than his scoring line indicates.

As far as the PK, the problem seems to be MacDonald, MDZ and Read.

 

[Johnk0728]

Looking at advanced stats:

CF%rel - Read 5.5, Couts 3.3, Raffl 2.7, Weise 1.6
GF%rel - Raffl 12.4, Konecny 8.7, Read 6.9, Luby 5.9, Weise 4.5

CF%rel - Leier -5.6, Schenn -4.6, Gordon -3.7, PEB -2.6, Simmonds -2.2
GF%rel - Gordon -31.8, VdV -10.7, Voracek -9.1, Leier -5.9, Schenn -3.4

Weise may not be scoring, but neither does the other team when he's on the ice, and he's a solid possession winger - I think he needs the right linemates to play with for a while to get into a groove, but he's playing better than his scoring line indicates.

As far as the PK, the problem seems to be MacDonald, MDZ and Read.

4 points in 35 games...really? Have you guys ever wondered why guys who are not skilled players seem to always score well in analytics? Limited minutes and usually playing against the other teams lower lines = no goals against while not scoring any. Dale Weise has sucked this year. He was invisible again last night. Good players impact the game...not just skate their wing and dump the puck. Weise has created nothing and has put no pressure on the opponent this year. He is a nothing player....which is why he scores well on analytics....same goes for #14. Hell, has weise even once started a scrum or tried to change the emotion of the game like he used in MOntreal? No.....

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Looking at advanced stats:

CF%rel - Read 5.5, Couts 3.3, Raffl 2.7, Weise 1.6
GF%rel - Raffl 12.4, Konecny 8.7, Read 6.9, Luby 5.9, Weise 4.5

CF%rel - Leier -5.6, Schenn -4.6, Gordon -3.7, PEB -2.6, Simmonds -2.2
GF%rel - Gordon -31.8, VdV -10.7, Voracek -9.1, Leier -5.9, Schenn -3.4

Weise may not be scoring, but neither does the other team when he's on the ice, and he's a solid possession winger - I think he needs the right linemates to play with for a while to get into a groove, but he's playing better than his scoring line indicates.

As far as the PK, the problem seems to be MacDonald, MDZ and Read.

 

[Psuhockey]

No UFA....forward, D or goalie, are proving worth re-signing.

I agree. At some point you have to cut the cord so to speak and turn the team over to the young players.

The Flyers are rebuilding. Hakstol was hired supposedly to help mold young players. Just get on with it already. The mediocre vets who have no chance of improving are what is screwing up this team.

 

[WIP CALLER]

I think Weise would be a solid winger to have on a good 4th line which is why I'm not too concerned about his contract. I don't see a spot for him in the top 9 after this season with the high probability of adding a top 9 winger this off-season, whether th. He and lyubimov would be a great winger duo for the 4th line. They're so good at driving possession, i have a good feeling they won't be hemmed in their own zone almost every shift like a certain other duo the coach loves. And with that, I think both guys would see an increase in their points. Weise getting 20-25 points on the 4th line while driving possession would make his contract ok. Would just need to find a 4th line center that can win draws, be defensively responsible, and can keep up with the pace of play. Doesn't need to be a burner just needs to not be slower than everyone else like Gordon. Hopefully Hextall can finally make a signing that sticks there. I miss the days of having a 4th line that doesn't absolutely kill your momentum every time they are on the ice.

 

[Appleyard]

4 points in 35 games...really? Have you guys ever wondered why guys who are not skilled players seem to always score well in analytics? Limited minutes and usually playing against the other teams lower lines = no goals against while not scoring any. Dale Weise has sucked this year. He was invisible again last night. Good players impact the game...not just skate their wing and dump the puck. Weise has created nothing and has put no pressure on the opponent this year. He is a nothing player....which is why he scores well on analytics....same goes for #14. Hell, has weise even once started a scrum or tried to change the emotion of the game like he used in MOntreal? No.....

That is not true.

If you look at the active forwards who are top ~100 in Corsi rel over the last 4 years here are the ones you would say are not legit top 6 players:

Raffl, Nestrasil, Jaskin, Dano, Jurco, Maroon, Bickell, Lee, Rust, Byron, Eaves, Comeau.

And ~8/12 of them are still pretty good hockey players. And the ones who the Corsi rel indicates are good generally get **** easy minutes and easy zone starts.

If you look at the active forwards who are bottom ~100 in Corsi rel over the last 4 years here are the ones you would say are legit top 6 players:

Vanek, Horvat, Fisher, Henrique, Kessel, Ryan.

3 of those guys are noted for being bad defensive players, that is what drags them down, and the other 3 get tough minutes.


It is pretty rare for a player to have awful underlying stats and be a good hockey player.

And the players with good underlying stats who are not top 6ers are generally good two-way 3rd line talents.

 

[Johnk0728]

That is not true.

If you look at the active forwards who are top ~100 in Corsi rel over the last 4 years here are the ones you would say are not legit top 6 players:

Raffl, Nestrasil, Jaskin, Dano, Jurco, Maroon, Bickell, Lee, Rust, Byron, Eaves, Comeau.

And ~8/12 of them are still pretty good hockey players. And the ones who the Corsi rel indicates are good generally get **** easy minutes and easy zone starts.

If you look at the active forwards who are bottom ~100 in Corsi rel over the last 4 years here are the ones you would say are legit top 6 players:

Vanek, Horvat, Fisher, Henrique, Kessel, Ryan.

3 of those guys are noted for being bad defensive players, that is what drags them down, and the other 3 get tough minutes.


It is pretty rare for a player to have awful underlying stats and be a good hockey player.

And the players with good underlying stats who are not top 6ers are generally good two-way 3rd line talents.

All ******** aside......Do you think Dale Weise has been an effective, impactful hockey player this year?

Last night all the Couturier line did was take the puck into the zone...get caught on the boards with it then get pushed off the puck and then go off for a line change while the Rangers went up ice. They created no real chances....

 

[dats81]

The bottom line is that Hextall has tried hard to cut salary but some of that has been nullified by the Dale Weise contract and even though not completely useless he is here long term and grossly overpaid. For double of that cap hit they could have just kept Hartnell and enjoyed the 50 points per season that he would have added

Roman Lyubimov does the same job for 900K and he is excempt to waivers.

 

[Appleyard]

Would seem to me if you have a really low CF% on the PK you aren't getting the puck out of your own end much, and those with higher CF% on the PK are doing a better job disrupting the PP's possession.

I think that is true over big sample sizes... a lot of good PK scorers have good CF/60 over bigger samples, which ofc pulls up the CF% overall.

But that is the problem with PK stats. The sample is so small that unless you have like ~2-3 seasons of data to examine it is pretty hard to really derive anything from it.


When the starts are examined over the last few years it is preposterous that Raffl does not PK really. I mean... he was a regular in 13-14 and did well, and was ~5th-6th man in 14-15 and did well... and has not PKed since then.

CA/60 Flyers Fwds on PK since 2013-14, 150+ mins:

Raffl: 83.00
Couturier: 86.10
Read: 91.59
VandeVelde: 95.81
Giroux: 96.08
Bellemare: 99.99

and the guys with smaller samples:

Simmonds: 77.42
Laughton: 84.04

and the CF% over that time:

Couturier: 15.2%
Raffl: 14.1%
Giroux: 13.6%
Read: 13.0%
Bellemare: 10.5%
VandeVelde: 10.4%

and the smaller sample guys:

Simmonds: 20.4%
Laughton: 12.7%