GDT: Game 67: Colorado Avalanche @ Columbus Blue Jackets - Black and Blue - 5PM

[Murzu]

 

[Foppa2118]

What a terrible game. Don’t even know where to begin.

Barrie with an awful night. Avs are up 2-0, and he somehow misses his 6’5” 230 lb partner and runs right into him with the puck, giving up an easy goal, and changing all the momentum. Then he kills two PP’s all by himself with terrible zone entries and passes. Then with Varly caught looking the wrong way, he lets a diagonal pass go from behind the net, right out to the door step for the tap in 4-2 goal. Then he coughs up the puck in his own corner, and it directly leads to a glorious scoring chance that almost puts them down 5-2 in the final minute of the 2nd period. Then he lets a slow dribbling pass go through his legs for the OT goal and they lose. Easily his worst game of the year.

MacKinnon was really bad defensively in this one as well. Right on the heels of losing his man in OT last game, he lost his man numerous times again in this one, giving up a couple dangerous scoring chances. Almost ended their comeback by forgetting to cover for Barrie in the 3rd too, who had pinched down low on what had to be a set play off the faceoff that Nate must have known about.

I’m a big fan of Landy, but he was pretty invisible in this one aside from his one timer goal late in the 3rd. Avs need him to be more of a presence in the O zone. He needs to get to the net and cause havoc, he’s playing on the perimeter way too much. Needs to start burying his chances too. He gets way too many glorious scoring chances that he just shoots right into the goalie’s pads.

Compher and Kerfoot continue to struggle. They are both in the midst of a Duchene style funk right now. One of them has got to dig their way out of it ASAP. Avs are in desperate need of secondary scoring, and that is arguably the biggest part of their role. Definitely the biggest part of Kerfoot’s role. He needs to start going to the dirty areas again, that's where he was having success earlier in the year.

Nemeth another game of breakdowns, including getting caught puck watching on the tying 2-2 goal.

Awful officiating from Kevin Pollack didn’t help either. Moron called three incredibly weak penalties in a row on the Avs in the 2nd period, First a pure dive from Dubinsky looking like he’s sliding into second base. Then a complete phantom hooking call on Zadorov to give Columbus a 5 on 3. Then another pure dive by Foligno next to the net away from the play, and Pollack for some reason thinks Girard who weighs 40-50 lbs less tackled him, and the Jackets finally score to make it 3-2. Then as the trailing official he calls Zadorov again for reaching one handed from about ten feet away, and lightly poking Panarin in the back, and he calls that slashing for the Avs 5th penalty in a row.

Just unacceptable to call that many terrible penalties in a row during an incredibly tight playoff race. Someone from the league better give him a call after this one.

Either way, the Avs dug their own grave in this one losing tons of battles, turning over way too many pucks, and not burying their own chances. At least they got a point they didn't deserve, but they can’t be losing games they’re up 2-0 in this time of year. They’ve left three points on the table that were right there for the taking in their last three games, due to poor efforts, and careless mistakes.

Only players that really played well in this one were Girard and Soda. They’re gonna need more than that if they want to make the playoffs.

 

[klozge]

I'm surprised Compher and Kerfoot still play relatively well at this point of the season. They appear to be very tired which is quite understandable for rookies who both have helped to carry the team at times.

 

[Foppa2118]

I'm surprised Compher and Kerfoot still play relatively well at this point of the season. They appear to be very tired which is quite understandable for rookies who both have helped to carry the team at times.

I'm not sure that's it. Maybe Compher a little bit, but both seem to have some jump still in their game, especially Kerfoot. They're looking a little like Yak though. Lots of jump, but their approach just isn't working.

I think their rookie adjustment is more playing consistently for 82 games, than adjusting to the work load. Both have kind of gotten away from going to the dirty areas, and both have success when they do so. I think that's the biggest adjustment they need to make.

 

[Avs71]

Avs are probably going to end up battling Anaheim for the 8th spot.

 

[viach]

What a terrible game. Don’t even know where to begin.
Barrie with an awful night...

Totally agree

What a terrible game. Don’t even know where to begin.
MacKinnon was really bad defensively in this one as well. Right on the heels of losing his man in OT

Agree again. He had multiple bad plays on defense.
I thought he would have had an assist on Barrie goal..

 

[henchman21]

Barrie is being played as a #1 (at ES) and I think we can all agree he isn't that. He will always have some struggles in that role. IMO if you paired him with a steady #2 you could have a passable top pairing with Barrie... but the Avs don't have that. Z is far to sporadic and Nemeth isn't even close to that capability. Yet, Barrie is doing what he can and playing his game well enough to keep things going. He's never going to be a great defensive player, so he has to counteract that with offense... and he is doing that. Barrie will always be a high event player, and that only gets exacerbated when playing top minutes.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Over the last 9 games (since EJ went down)

Barrie and Zadorov together = 41.78CF%
Barrie away from Zadorov = 49.07CF%
Zadorov away from Barrie = 32.43CF%

The numbers are showing that Zadorov is a hot mess recently and the eye test IMO has shown very similar. I thought he was good against Chicago and Minnesota but that's about it.

 

[hooverdam]

Yeah I think @cgf said it best in that expecting defense to always be the primary function of a defenseman is outdated now. It's just not how the game's modern defensemen are built and function today, and to me that's a good thing. If a defenseman can only be elite at one thing, and at this point only the truly top defensemen in the league are elite at both, I'd rather it be offense over defense every time because that has a much more quantifiable, dynamic impact on the game.

This is not to discount two-way defensemen entirely, and certainly there are valuable defensive defensemen in today's game. But now those guys have to be able to play a good transition game; they can't treat the puck like a bomb and avoid making plays with it if they want to keep up. The concept of the "stay at home" defenseman just isn't viable by the old definition anymore. And I prefer defensemen who are proactive in trying to drive offense, because even if they make you pay for it on defense, the reward is much greater and much more impactful than the types who sit back and let the plays come to them more than 70% of the time for the sake of safety and defense.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Yeah I think @cgf said it best in that expecting defense to always be the primary function of a defenseman is outdated now. It's just not how the game's modern defensemen are built and function today, and to me that's a good thing. If a defenseman can only be elite at one thing, and at this point only the truly top defensemen in the league are elite at both, I'd rather it be offense over defense every time because that has a much more quantifiable, dynamic impact on the game.

This is not to discount two-way defensemen entirely, and certainly there are valuable defensive defensemen in today's game. But now those guys have to be able to play a good transition game; they can't treat the puck like a bomb and avoid making plays with it if they want to keep up. The concept of the "stay at home" defenseman just isn't viable by the old definition anymore. And I prefer defensemen who are proactive in trying to drive offense, because even if they make you pay for it on defense, the reward is much greater and much more impactful than the types who sit back and let the plays come to them more than 70% of the time for the sake of safety and defense.

I think the stay at home defenseman is stil and always will be a thing. The difference is that the best stay at home guys can actually handle the puck now; but the stay at home guys like Siemens and Gudbranson are a dying breed. Being big and strong isn’t enough anymore, but there will always be guys that play in some way a stay at home style of defense, the style in how it’s played is just changing.

 

[McMetal]

Yeah I think @cgf said it best in that expecting defense to always be the primary function of a defenseman is outdated now. It's just not how the game's modern defensemen are built and function today, and to me that's a good thing. If a defenseman can only be elite at one thing, and at this point only the truly top defensemen in the league are elite at both, I'd rather it be offense over defense every time because that has a much more quantifiable, dynamic impact on the game.

This is not to discount two-way defensemen entirely, and certainly there are valuable defensive defensemen in today's game. But now those guys have to be able to play a good transition game; they can't treat the puck like a bomb and avoid making plays with it if they want to keep up. The concept of the "stay at home" defenseman just isn't viable by the old definition anymore. And I prefer defensemen who are proactive in trying to drive offense, because even if they make you pay for it on defense, the reward is much greater and much more impactful than the types who sit back and let the plays come to them more than 70% of the time for the sake of safety and defense.

I think it's very easy to look at points and say that has a "quantifiable" impact on the game, but they do not tell the whole story. They're flashy and fun, but to say that a good shutdown defenseman doesn't have an immense impact on a game, especially in the playoffs, is fundamentally incorrect. It isn't a glamorous job, but it's important nonetheless.

Nobody's saying we should go out and get a bunch of stone-hands pylons on D. Of course you have to be able to make a pass to be a top 4 D. But you also have to, first and foremost, be responsible defensively. Offense comes second.

 

[hooverdam]

I think it's very easy to look at points and say that has a "quantifiable" impact on the game, but they do not tell the whole story. They're flashy and fun, but to say that a good shutdown defenseman doesn't have an immense impact on a game, especially in the playoffs, is fundamentally incorrect. It isn't a glamorous job, but it's important nonetheless.

Nobody's saying we should go out and get a bunch of stone-hands pylons on D. Of course you have to be able to make a pass to be a top 4 D. But you also have to, first and foremost, be responsible defensively. Offense comes second.

This is just where we fundamentally disagree. Offense should come first. The more time you spend pushing the play in one direction and driving offense, the less time you have to spend defending, which is better for the entire team, including the goalie. All of the top defensemen in this league play that way and that impact is profoundly felt. And whether or not that impact is seen in CF% or in actual points on the board, both are net positives overall.

 

[Pokecheque]

I'm pretty much done with Gork and Lindholm. I don't think either one is really an NHL-caliber player.

And while some say he played poorly, I think putting Landeskog on a different line woke him up a bit. He was falling into some very bad habits playing on the top line, it sort of jumpstarted him just a bit and I saw him finally start to skate again like he should.

He didn't get a ton of looks but having Andrighetto back shows just how much they missed him during this stretch. He's just really good and not only using his speed, but he makes it a priority to put pucks on net. Take notes, rookies.

Pretty telling to me that Colin Wilson actually died on the ice a few games ago and nobody noticed.

 

[cgf]

This is just where we fundamentally disagree. Offense should come first. The more time you spend pushing the play in one direction and driving offense, the less time you have to spend defending, which is better for the entire team, including the goalie. All of the top defensemen in this league play that way and that impact is profoundly felt. And whether or not that impact is seen in CF% or in actual points on the board, both are net positives overall.

Yep. Soccer started undergoing a similar evolution ~15 years ago; and after Spain became the first nation to win back-to-back-to-back major trophies, by never conceding because they always had the ball, the top sides realized that the best way to keep goals out of their own net is to the dominate possession. Thus you see some powerhouses who spend ~70% of the game with the ball. The best backs in the world can defend, but even more importantly they are smooth enough with the ball that forecheckers (called pressers in soccer) can not take advantage of them in possession. Guys who can't are no longer able to play for the top sides, regardless of how well they can defend in the more traditional ways.

Hockey is trailing soccer in this evolution by quite a bit, but it's happening in this sport as well...despite the conservative elements that dominate hockey having to be dragged along, kicking n screaming.

 

[WarriorOfGandhi]

I could only watch the first two periods so I'm reasonably happy with the outcome

 

[Ivan13]

I'd rather have a Leetch in this day and age than a Langway.

 

[McMetal]

This is just where we fundamentally disagree. Offense should come first. The more time you spend pushing the play in one direction and driving offense, the less time you have to spend defending, which is better for the entire team, including the goalie. All of the top defensemen in this league play that way and that impact is profoundly felt. And whether or not that impact is seen in CF% or in actual points on the board, both are net positives overall.

Very much disagree on that. Karlsson plays that way, and he gets away with it because he is simply the most talented player on the ice. But to say that Hedman, Doughty, Subban, Weber (from 5 years ago) and Fowler don't base their games on strong defensive fundamentals is way off base. Yes, they all score points, but they are all responsible in their own end as well, and that's what allows them to spend so much time in the opposing zone, because they never get pinned in their own. That's what makes them elite, not just scoring, but scoring WHILE shutting down top competition.

 

[cgf]

Very much disagree on that. Karlsson plays that way, and he gets away with it because he is simply the most talented player on the ice. But to say that Hedman, Doughty, Subban, Weber (from 5 years ago) and Fowler don't base their games on strong defensive fundamentals is way off base. Yes, they all score points, but they are all responsible in their own end as well, and that's what allows them to spend so much time in the opposing zone, because they never get pinned in their own. That's what makes them elite, not just scoring, but scoring WHILE shutting down top competition.

Disagree. They can all defend, but what makes them elite is that not only can they win the puck back, but they can move the puck up ice & keep it there once they've won it. That's what makes them special and elite. Weber is the only one you've listed who can't do those things, and he's the only one you've listed who sucks now that he doesn't have Josi or Markov to handle them for him.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

I'd rather have a Leetch in this day and age than a Langway.

This comment probably went over the head of half the posters on here.

 

[Mac2Rants]

.

 

[Mac2Rants]

I could only watch the first two periods so I'm reasonably happy with the outcome

same

 

[The Abusement Park]

Very much disagree on that. Karlsson plays that way, and he gets away with it because he is simply the most talented player on the ice. But to say that Hedman, Doughty, Subban, Weber (from 5 years ago) and Fowler don't base their games on strong defensive fundamentals is way off base. Yes, they all score points, but they are all responsible in their own end as well, and that's what allows them to spend so much time in the opposing zone, because they never get pinned in their own. That's what makes them elite, not just scoring, but scoring WHILE shutting down top competition.

And this is my issue, you can’t compare Barrie to those guys. He was never projected to be a 2 way guy or a defense first guy. He’s always been an offensive defenseman so clearly he lacks in defenesive skill. There’s this expectation of him that’s not realistic defensively and when he plays in a #1 they obviously get exacerbated because he isn’t a #1 and never will be.

 

[McMetal]

Disagree. They can all defend, but what makes them elite is that not only can they win the puck back, but they can move the puck up ice & keep it there once they've won it. That's what makes them special and elite. Weber is the only one you've listed who can't do those things, and he's the only one you've listed who sucks now that he doesn't have Josi or Markov to handle them for him.

..... That's kind of exactly what I said.

That's what makes them elite, not just scoring, but scoring WHILE shutting down top competition.

 

[McMetal]

And this is my issue, you can’t compare Barrie to those guys. He was never projected to be a 2 way guy or a defense first guy. He’s always been an offensive defenseman so clearly he lacks in defenesive skill. There’s this expectation of him that’s not realistic defensively and when he plays in a #1 they obviously get exacerbated because he isn’t a #1 and never will be.

OK, fair point, but there's a large contingent of the board who considers him our MVP defenseman and an irreplaceable core piece who should be paid whatever he wants for however long he wants. That's a stretch. He's a good #3 defenseman, but no more.

 

[cgf]

..... That's kind of exactly what I said.

Then why list Weber? He's just as "one-dimensional" as Barrie outside of his shot, and so his inclusion leads me to believe that you are arguing that a blueliner who sucks at moving the puck or keeping it in, can still be elite, which I vehemently disagree with.