GDT: Game 67: Colorado Avalanche @ Columbus Blue Jackets - Black and Blue - 5PM

[The Kingslayer]

He didn't play that much last night but I thought for a first game back after passing away that Andrighetto was noticeable in a good way.

 

[The Abusement Park]

OK, fair point, but there's a large contingent of the board who considers him our MVP defenseman and an irreplaceable core piece who should be paid whatever he wants for however long he wants. That's a stretch. He's a good #3 defenseman, but no more.

I do think he is a core piece though. I mean if we can get him a legitimately good partner for the first time ever having Barrie is an absolutely huge advantage for us. No one can drive offense at ES like he can, he’s a special player at what he does and he’s someone that isn’t just a replaceable player like some make it out like he is. He has a special skill set that any team in the NHL could utilize.

 

[cgf]

OK, fair point, but there's a large contingent of the board who considers him our MVP defenseman and an irreplaceable core piece who should be paid whatever he wants for however long he wants. That's a stretch. He's a good #3 defenseman, but no more.

Who thinks this way? EJ is our most important blueliner, but Barrie is a quality #2 (and top 45 blueliner league-wide) who's a core piece that we will miss immensely should the team trade him. Paying him 6 or 7 per is perfectly reasonable for what he provides. If he wants Karlsson money he can f*** off, but if he's reasonable then, of course we should be reasonable as well.

 

[hooverdam]

OK, fair point, but there's a large contingent of the board who considers him our MVP defenseman and an irreplaceable core piece who should be paid whatever he wants for however long he wants. That's a stretch. He's a good #3 defenseman, but no more.

He's irreplaceable right now because the Avs have no one else in the lineup or in the prospect pool that has proven that they can do what he does in the NHL. Not EJ. Not Girard. Not Zadorov. Not Timmins or Makar yet.

We don't have an extra Subban or Hedman just lying around waiting to carry this team offensively and defensively from the backend. We have to kind of make that up piecemeal with Barrie and Johnson, and Johnson is good for one serious injury a year. Barrie is worth a lot to this team because he brings offense at an elite level and literally no defenseman on the team can touch that yet. Take that away before anyone even comes close to matching it, and this team is in trouble. Then you're depending on a bunch of kids stepping up right away when someone like Zadorov is proof that doesn't always happen, or MacKinnon going god mode every single game, which is basically what he did during the winning streak.

I am in full support of an eventual youth movement on defense, but those kids should be pushing out the Nemeths and the Lindholms of the lineups, not the Barries. Because when Johnson gets injured, no coach is going to rely on Makar or Timmins to take on those minutes before they've proven anything. It would mean more minutes for mediocre stopgaps who wouldn't contribute enough to offense.

 

[McMetal]

Then why list Weber? He's just as "one-dimensional" as Barrie outside of his shot, and so his inclusion leads me to believe that you are arguing that a blueliner who sucks at moving the puck or keeping it in, can still be elite, which I vehemently disagree with. Hedman is a stud, but he's stud because of what he can do when his team has the puck, not because he's as good as Larsson against it.

I would disagree on that evaluation of Weber. He's old and broken down now, but in his prime he was absolutely one of the top 5 D in the league. And saying he is "one dimensional outside of his shot" is a weird thing to say. He's one dimensional outside of this other dimension he has?

Hedman also plays great defense so I don't know why you would single him out as being an offensive defenseman. Yes, he plays great with the puck, but what separates him from Barrie is that he can singlehandedly get the puck back in order to work that magic.

 

[Freudian]

Barrie needs a high IQ, defensive stick-on-puck type of partner and a lot of the defensive issues would go away. He's smart enough to play around his limitations if he gets proper support.

Avs don't really have any of those players at the moment and are forced to play Barrie too much with EJ gone. The guy is going to get extra exposed.

 

[cgf]

I would disagree on that evaluation of Weber. He's old and broken down now, but in his prime he was absolutely one of the top 5 D in the league. And saying he is "one dimensional outside of his shot" is a weird thing to say. He's one dimensional outside of this other dimension he has?

Hedman also plays great defense so I don't know why you would single him out as being an offensive defenseman. Yes, he plays great with the puck, but what separates him from Barrie is that he can singlehandedly get the puck back in order to work that magic.

A decade ago the game was different...and even then Weber always had Suter or Josi to handle the more important sides of blueline play for him. And I said it that way because being able to shoot has nothing to do with moving the puck up ice or keeping it in.

I brought hedman up because without his skills he'd be Larsson, instead of a top 3 dman league-wide.

 

[henchman21]

OK, fair point, but there's a large contingent of the board who considers him our MVP defenseman and an irreplaceable core piece who should be paid whatever he wants for however long he wants. That's a stretch. He's a good #3 defenseman, but no more.

I'd say that is a stretch in the other direction. If Barrie is a #3, he is an elite one. One of the single best defensemen at providing offense in the NHL.

 

[McMetal]

I'd say that is a stretch in the other direction. If Barrie is a #3, he is an elite one. One of the single best defensemen at providing offense in the NHL.

Certainly, and his point totals reflect that. All I'm saying is that saying that without also acknowledging that there are other very important things about his game that are lacking is disingenuous.

 

[henchman21]

Certainly, and his point totals reflect that. All I'm saying is that saying that without also acknowledging that there are other very important things about his game that are lacking is disingenuous.

His issues are acknowledged by everybody... even his big supporters (such as myself) will say he has issues defensively and isn't capable of being a #1. That just isn't who he is.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Certainly, and his point totals reflect that. All I'm saying is that saying that without also acknowledging that there are other very important things about his game that are lacking is disingenuous.

It’s also disengenious to hold to him a standard he isn’t capable of.

 

[henchman21]

To me right now, the biggest issue on defense isn't even close to Barrie. Barrie is doing what he can and is over extended right now. The biggest issue is Z. This is the time where he needs to step up and start being more consistent. Play up to his talent level and not this inconsistent mess that he is. I fear he will never turn that corner in consistency...

 

[McMetal]

If you ask me, Nemeth was the worst blueliner on the team last night. Multiple blown coverages in the D-zone, including in front of the net where defensemen have to be the strongest. His positioning lately has been abominable in general and it is really hurting the team. I wish the team had some options to push him off the middle pairing.

 

[PAZ]

To me right now, the biggest issue on defense isn't even close to Barrie. Barrie is doing what he can and is over extended right now. The biggest issue is Z. This is the time where he needs to step up and start being more consistent. Play up to his talent level and not this inconsistent mess that he is. I fear he will never turn that corner in consistency...

Z is still only 22, bit early for those type of statements. If he's around 25 and still an inconsistent mess then it might be time to worry, but he's still just learning and adapting. He's had an upward trajectory since the trade, I see no reason why that won't continue.

 

[The Abusement Park]

This is why I kinda wish we were in on Ian Cole. Yeah he’s not in the age range of our core, but he’s capable of playing top 4 minutes and we wouldn’t have to deal with Nemeth/Lindholm/Siemens playing as much.

 

[cgf]

To me right now, the biggest issue on defense isn't even close to Barrie. Barrie is doing what he can and is over extended right now. The biggest issue is Z. This is the time where he needs to step up and start being more consistent. Play up to his talent level and not this inconsistent mess that he is. I fear he will never turn that corner in consistency...

Agreed...up until that final sentence. This is big Nik’s first season as a top pairing guy, it’s not exactly fair to expect him to not suffer some instability the first time EJ goes down and he has to stabilize that pairing defensively.

He needs to be a lot better, as his four worst games of the season have come in the last 6 games; but worrying about him ever being able to do it because he of that is silly.

This is why I kinda wish we were in on Ian Cole. Yeah he’s not in the age range of our core, but he’s capable of playing top 4 minutes and we wouldn’t have to deal with Nemeth/Lindholm/Siemens playing as much.

Woulda also been fun to have some personal connections to someone on the Avs, or at least to Cole’s family.

 

[hooverdam]

This is why I kinda wish we were in on Ian Cole. Yeah he’s not in the age range of our core, but he’s capable of playing top 4 minutes and we wouldn’t have to deal with Nemeth/Lindholm/Siemens playing as much.

Cole isn't a good defenseman in a vacuum but he is damn good with an offensive defenseman and can do a lot for their game. Schultz owed him a big dinner after that contract. He is the perfect support guy. If you ask him to be the best player on his pairing, he'll disappoint you, but given a spot next to a great puck mover, he'll shine. He'd be great for Girard or Barrie right now and he can play both sides effectively.

I understand why Sakic stood pat at the deadline but the Penguins actively wanted him gone because he clashed with the coach. He could've been had cheaply; he was added to that Brassard trade at Pittsburgh's insistence, not Ottawa's.

 

[Balthazar]

Z is still only 22, bit early for those type of statements.

Zadorov is as inconsistent as he ever was. There's no progression on that front. None. Playing like a top pair dman in one game, playing like an AHL guy in the other.

 

[cgf]

I really love soda. He’s a key player for us and cracks me up every other game with his #SodaSolutions...like when he just shoved an opposing blueliner into the neutral zone so he could grab a new stick from the bench.

But I would’ve loved a retained-Soderberg for Gus & Cole trade had they failed to make the Brassard trade work

 

[cgf]

Zadorov is as inconsistent as he ever was. There's no progression on that front. None. Playing like a top pair dman in one game, playing like an AHL guy in the other.

lol this can’t be real

 

[Balthazar]

lol this can’t be real

I know right? It is, though.

 

[cgf]

I know right? It is, though.

I refuse to give you so little credit as to think you could actually believe that. That was just a really bad attempt at trolling

 

[Pokecheque]

FTR this team is lousy defensively up front as well. Even two-way guys like Landeskog and Rantanen are playing awful in the defensive zone for some weird reason. Guys like Toninato are a step in the right direction but I think we can all agree that's not nearly enough.

My point is that Barrie's defensive deficiencies aren't just the product of having a not-great defensive partner, the issue is systemic and team-wide. They need guys able to shut down and neutralize the opposition, not just play a "passable" defensive game.

 

[Pokecheque]

Oh and I thought both goalies were pretty lousy last night.

 

[Balthazar]

I refuse to give you so little credit as to think you could actually believe that. That was just a really bad attempt at trolling

Which part you don't believe? That he can be super good? Super bad? Or that he's super inconsistent?