News Article: Friedman says Detroit is "open for business"

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Perceived by GMs. There was a reason Vanek (1) signed here and (2) signed for less. He wasn't exactly drowning in options.

You say that, but teams as a general rule are going to pay less for UFAs they don't think they can sign. Vanek saying he wants to test the market isn't exactly helping Holland maximize his return here.

The key detail is that he's exploring his options other than re-signing with the Red Wings. If anything that statement would be good news to GMs because it sure doesn't sound like he'll be a rental only to sign with Detroit again in the summer.

Vanek wasn't drowning in options because of his performance with the Wild. But in 47 games this year he's almost matched his production from the previous season.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Smith's value may have gone up with sgatrenkirk going to Washington

He may be the best available dman mean on the market now given his she, cap hit and the role he does play in the playoffs, i.e. our best man two or three years running come April

 

[InGusWeTrust]

The key detail is that he's exploring his options other than re-signing with the Red Wings. If anything that statement would be good news to GMs because it sure doesn't sound like he'll be a rental only to sign with Detroit again in the summer.

Vanek wasn't drowning in options because of his performance with the Wild. But in 47 games this year he's almost matched his production from the previous season.

It's also very apparent he misses his family, missing all of his sons hockey games. I think where he ends up on his next contract is going long term. He may not be in it for the money anymore.

 

[Winger98]

Exactly. We had "interesting" stats on this forum too, mostly designed to figure out why Smith's stats weren't as bad as many on this forum claim him to be. He's actually a decent mid-level guy and he COSTS A HECK OF A LOT LESS than the brain surgeons Kenny loves. Ken needs to clear out the contracts that won't let him really do anything substantial. With guys like Mantha, Athanasiou, Larkin, and Tatar needing contracts soon, why would you blow that up by keeping E, Abby and even Helm?

Maybe Holland just doesn't has the motivation to move guys who he'd have to work to move, and that he doesn't see a great difference between keeping E or Smith (though he'd prefer to keep both because he doesn't trust the kids to do anything). It has to come down to Holland either liking some of these guys a lot more than we do, the market is even worse than we think, or Holland has just frozen over the decision and is incapable of doing it.

Whatever the reason it boils down to the same thing and it's the club constantly fighting its inertia to make a move.

How do you come to the conclusion it's just an excuse? Who do you think is taking our garbage players on bad contracts? You'd have to attach assets to E to move him probably the same with abby. The reason we're talking about trading younger guys with better contracts is because they don't have negative value. The point is to garner assets not give them away just to free up cap space. We don't need cap space at this point..the priority right now should be selling off whatever we can to gain as many futures as possible.

I'm not Fugu, but I'll chime in here. I think it's a bit of an excuse because moving Smith doesn't really make the team better while we keep D who are worse (arguably much worse in some ways). Let's say we have to pack a second with Ericsson to move him and we get back a fourth. So what. Is the fourth really that much worse than the second aside from the optics of it and is losing Ericsson really a bad thing? I think the answer is no for both of those things, and it should mean we keep the better player in his place while opening up roster/cap space for other moves (and actual cap space, not this thing where we plan on spending $6 million over the cap again).

If we're not actively tanking than we should be trying to ice the best team possible. If that means finding a way to move Ericsson or Kronwall or Gator or Helm and keeping Smith or whoever, then that's what should be happening.

 

[Frk It]

I'm not Fugu, but I'll chime in here. I think it's a bit of an excuse because moving Smith doesn't really make the team better while we keep D who are worse (arguably much worse in some ways).

I don't think keeping Smith makes us a better team. Especially not when it would be at 3.5-3.75 million dollars.

It's mind-boggling to me that we are even entertaining this... when we already have E locked in at 4.25, Abby locked in at 4.25, Helm at 3.85, Dekeyser at 5.00, Howard at 5.25...

Like how many bad contracts do you guys want on this team? Play the kids making 800-900K and live with what you get. If you get cheap, good young players out-performing their contracts... great. If they suck and they help you get high draft picks... great. Last thing we need is more bad contracts.

 

[Dotter]

I wouldn't trade our 2nd to get rid of a contract that's not crippling. Wings are in a rebuild and probably won't have the talent to compete until these contracts expire anyhow.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I don't think keeping Smith makes us a better team. Especially not when it would be at 3.5-3.75 million dollars.

It's mind-boggling to me that we are even entertaining this... when we already have E locked in at 4.25, Abby locked in at 4.25, Helm at 3.85, Dekeyser at 5.00, Howard at 5.25...

Like how many bad contracts do you guys want on this team? Play the kids making 800-900K and live with what you get. If you get cheap, good young players out-performing their contracts... great. If they suck and they help you get high draft picks... great. Last thing we need is more bad contracts.

The most important thing to remember is that Ericsson and Dekeyser were without question, zero doubt, top 3 or at absolute worst top 4 d-men on this team when they signed their contracts. E was playing top pairing minutes. Dekeyser was holding down our best shutdown pairing and putting up 30-ish points.

What is Smith doing? Struggling to get icetime. Still inconsistant defensively, still not doing much offensively. Takes dumb penalties. He's maybe the 6th best d-man on the team, and even that is reaching. I don't think anyone would be shocked if one or more of Sproul/Russo/Hicketts/Hronek pass Smith on the depth chart within the next 1-2 years.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I don't think keeping Smith makes us a better team. Especially not when it would be at 3.5-3.75 million dollars.

It's mind-boggling to me that we are even entertaining this... when we already have E locked in at 4.25, Abby locked in at 4.25, Helm at 3.85, Dekeyser at 5.00, Howard at 5.25...

Like how many bad contracts do you guys want on this team? Play the kids making 800-900K and live with what you get. If you get cheap, good young players out-performing their contracts... great. If they suck and they help you get high draft picks... great. Last thing we need is more bad contracts.

Yep, the bad contracts are piling up quickly and will be around after Holland retires - hopefully after next season at the absolute latest. It's hard to explain just how bad his asset management has been over the past 5 years. At least most can now see just how bad it's gotten. I see even Dotter is calling for a rebuild!

 

[Frk It]

The most important thing to remember is that Ericsson and Dekeyser were without question, zero doubt, top 3 or at absolute worst top 4 d-men on this team when they signed their contracts. E was playing top pairing minutes. Dekeyser was holding down our best shutdown pairing and putting up 30-ish points.

I'm not beating up the fact that these contracts were handed out in that post, moreso just saying we owe these guys X dollars and none of them are providing a good return.

So let's not add another guy who is more than likely going to give you a crap return.

 

[LastWordArmy]

Red Wings Trade Deadline Primer

As the season starts to fall apart around the Detroit Red Wings with their historic quarter-century playoff streak more than likely coming to an end, the focus now must be to rebuild to create new memories that can be celebrated as much as the old ones have been for the longest time. The team has plenty of assets to dangle between now and March 1st, plus the pre-deadline trades have set the market to the team’s favor (Hello Martin Hanzal, Ron Hainsey, and Patrick Eaves). Already trading Tomas Jurco for a third round pick in this year’s draft on Friday, it seems Ken Holland is making preparations for more moves, and the opportunity is there for him to run this deadline and haul in goodies along with improving draft positioning.

http://lastwordonhockey.com/2017/02/28/detroit-red-wings-2017-trade-deadline-primer/

 

[Mister Ed]

Wonder if there would be interest in Howard on deadline day. People have been inquiring on Miller (CGY and SJ) and I wonder if all of Miller's value stands in his UFA status this summer.

If not, if actual play has something to do with it, Howard would be a solid backup to Jones or Elliott/Johnson.

Miller has 2.65 GAA / .916 SV%
Howard has 1.96 GAA / .934 SV%

 

[jaster]

Perceived by GMs. There was a reason Vanek (1) signed here and (2) signed for less. He wasn't exactly drowning in options.

You say that, but teams as a general rule are going to pay less for UFAs they don't think they can sign. Vanek saying he wants to test the market isn't exactly helping Holland maximize his return here.

That was then, this is now. Vanek has drastically increased his value while playing in Detroit. After Minnesota, his value was rock bottom (by his standards) and teams viewed him as a risk who may not have anything left. But that has all changed.

Teams will indeed pay less for a rental than someone they know will sign, but a rental is all Vanek will be. Vanek knows that, Detroit knows that, and his suitors know that. It doesn't decrease the level of interest in him though, it should be increasing it.

 

[Hammettf2b]

C'mon Kenny, only 1 day left.

 

[TatarTangle]

Wonder if there would be interest in Howard on deadline day. People have been inquiring on Miller (CGY and SJ) and I wonder if all of Miller's value stands in his UFA status this summer.

If not, if actual play has something to do with it, Howard would be a solid backup to Jones or Elliott/Johnson.

Miller has 2.65 GAA / .916 SV%
Howard has 1.96 GAA / .934 SV%

Given Howard's track record -historically blowing chunks after being injured- nobody is going to want that salary unless Detroit retains some of it. Only two years left on it after this season though, IIRC.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

That was then, this is now. Vanek has drastically increased his value while playing in Detroit. After Minnesota, his value was rock bottom (by his standards) and teams viewed him as a risk who may not have anything left. But that has all changed.

Teams will indeed pay less for a rental than someone they know will sign, but a rental is all Vanek will be. Vanek knows that, Detroit knows that, and his suitors know that. It doesn't decrease the level of interest in him though, it should be increasing it.

we will know is value by 3pm tomorrow

no trade means he has no value as any return should be good enough for us, a non playoff team and with vanek being a UFA and non detroit red wing draft pick/development success story

 

[InGusWeTrust]

we will know is value by 3pm tomorrow

no trade means he has no value as any return should be good enough for us, a non playoff team and with vanek being a UFA and non detroit red wing draft pick/development success story

Never know with KH. He very well could just sign him long term too.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Never know with KH. He very well could just sign him long term too.

If so, it means he had no value and once again we would employ roster players that have no real value to anyone else

we could sign him in the summer

 

[TatarTangle]

Never know with KH. He very well could just sign him long term too.

Vanek 4 years at $17 million. Smith 5 years at $24.5 million.

Classic Holland

 

[Vladdy84]

Wonder if there would be interest in Howard on deadline day. People have been inquiring on Miller (CGY and SJ) and I wonder if all of Miller's value stands in his UFA status this summer.

If not, if actual play has something to do with it, Howard would be a solid backup to Jones or Elliott/Johnson.

Miller has 2.65 GAA / .916 SV%
Howard has 1.96 GAA / .934 SV%

Jimmy for a 2nd or 3rd round pick

 

[Run the Jewels]

Wonder if there would be interest in Howard on deadline day. People have been inquiring on Miller (CGY and SJ) and I wonder if all of Miller's value stands in his UFA status this summer.

If not, if actual play has something to do with it, Howard would be a solid backup to Jones or Elliott/Johnson.

Miller has 2.65 GAA / .916 SV%
Howard has 1.96 GAA / .934 SV%

Yeah, Miller is a rental which makes him more attractive. Anyone who is acquiring a goalie is acquiring a backup. Only Holland would sign a backup to that awful contract. No one is taking Howard off our hands. There will be much better options for Las Vegas so I can't see them taking him either.

 

[GBFP]

I have no interest in acquiring 2017 draft picks. This draft is crud. I want 2018 firsts and seconds in any trade for our vets.

 

[Shadywing19]

If so, it means he had no value and once again we would employ roster players that have no real value to anyone else

we could sign him in the summer

i dont think thats true.. i think it is in the total realm of possibility that if he isnt traded it could be because holland was asking for too much..or was too loyal as per usual. i agree that we should take anything for him. (well anything within reason) but holland may not see it that way.. he could be wanting a first and a prospect. and not budge from that. doesnt mean vanek doesnt have value. he does.

i agree vanek AND smith NEED to be moved for future assets. resign after the expansion draft if holland deems it absolutely necessary. just not for too long of term ha.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I have no interest in acquiring 2017 draft picks. This draft is crud. I want 2018 firsts and seconds in any trade for our vets.

Bull****. This draft is not going to be that bad and/or 2018 is not going to be that good.

The bigger bonus is getting Brendan Smith's 2.75M off the cap. And even in a crappy draft, you can find good players. Even if the average player sucks, you can land middle-six guys.

I can guarantee you that there will be an All-Star coming out of this draft somewhere. So, I don't understand pissing all over it.

 

[TatarTangle]

Bull****. This draft is not going to be that bad and/or 2018 is not going to be that good.

The bigger bonus is getting Brendan Smith's 2.75M off the cap. And even in a crappy draft, you can find good players. Even if the average player sucks, you can land middle-six guys.

I can guarantee you that there will be an All-Star coming out of this draft somewhere. So, I don't understand pissing all over it.

I don't understand it either. If the Red Wings scouting system is as good as claimed, I'm not sure why people are worried.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Yeah, Miller is a rental which makes him more attractive. Anyone who is acquiring a goalie is acquiring a backup. Only Holland would sign a backup to that awful contract. No one is taking Howard off our hands. There will be much better options for Las Vegas so I can't see them taking him either.

Howard was not a backup when he was signed to that deal. By any reasonable estimation... Mrazek would just be starting as the backup in Detroit this year. Mrazek shooting up like a rocket doesn't change that Howard didn't sign a backup's contract.

How many highly touted goalies have flamed out after one great season? Or big time prospects flare out in the minors and play like garbage in the big time.

This one will always stick in my craw. The contract for Howard was not a bad one when it was signed and it should not retroactively become a bad one because Mrazek surpassed expectations.

There are several deals that made zero sense from the day they were drawn up, like Abby and Helm. Howard's was a deal that looks exponentially worse because a prospect exceeded expectations.