News Article: Friedman says Detroit is "open for business"

Run the Jewels

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Jun 22, 2006
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Howard was not a backup when he was signed to that deal. By any reasonable estimation... Mrazek would just be starting as the backup in Detroit this year. Mrazek shooting up like a rocket doesn't change that Howard didn't sign a backup's contract.

How many highly touted goalies have flamed out after one great season? Or big time prospects flare out in the minors and play like garbage in the big time.

This one will always stick in my craw. The contract for Howard was not a bad one when it was signed and it should not retroactively become a bad one because Mrazek surpassed expectations.

There are several deals that made zero sense from the day they were drawn up, like Abby and Helm. Howard's was a deal that looks exponentially worse because a prospect exceeded expectations.

First off we're talking about a playoff team acquiring a backup. Miller makes sense, Howard does not. This is pretty straightforward.

Second, Mrazek has outpeformed Howard at every level. So you had some idea he was potentially going to be a better goaltender than Howard. To pretend he came out of nowhere is simply wrong.

Finally, Holland didn't need to give Howard term, top dollar and a NTC/NMC. His one playoff win we were actually outscored by the Ducks. To pretend he was a Carey Price level goalie is absurd. We routinely see Holland handing out goodies rather than make a firm stand. It's actually amazing he walked away from Smith's demands, that almost never happens with Holland. It certainly didn't in the case of Howard.

I can agree that signing Howard was entirely acceptable. I just disagree very strongly with many of your suppositions with regard to how good Howard was and having no idea Mrazek would likely turn into a very good NHL goaltender.
 

TatarTangle

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Sep 28, 2011
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First off we're talking about a playoff team acquiring a backup. Miller makes sense, Howard does not. This is pretty straightforward.

Second, Mrazek has outpeformed Howard at every level. So you had some idea he was potentially going to be a better goaltender than Howard. To pretend he came out of nowhere is simply wrong.

Finally, Holland didn't need to give Howard term, top dollar and a NTC/NMC. His one playoff win we were actually outscored by the Ducks. To pretend he was a Carey Price level goalie is absurd. We routinely see Holland handing out goodies rather than make a firm stand. It's actually amazing he walked away from Smith's demands, that almost never happens with Holland. It certainly didn't in the case of Howard.

I can agree that signing Howard was entirely acceptable. I just disagree very strongly with many of your suppositions with regard to how good Howard was and having no idea Mrazek would likely turn into a very good NHL goaltender.
I would have to check again but I believe when Howard signed the contract, it made him the 12thish highest paid goalie. About right for a goalie of his caliber.

Completely agree on Holland having to stand firm
 

Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
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Cleveland
I don't think keeping Smith makes us a better team. Especially not when it would be at 3.5-3.75 million dollars.

It's mind-boggling to me that we are even entertaining this... when we already have E locked in at 4.25, Abby locked in at 4.25, Helm at 3.85, Dekeyser at 5.00, Howard at 5.25...

Like how many bad contracts do you guys want on this team? Play the kids making 800-900K and live with what you get. If you get cheap, good young players out-performing their contracts... great. If they suck and they help you get high draft picks... great. Last thing we need is more bad contracts.

The idea wasn't adding to those contracts, it was moving those contracts however possible instead. Is Smith better than E? Yeah, I think so, largely because E is hobbled and can't seem to play his game for an entire season any more. Same with Kronwall. I think Smith is better than the kids, too. So, move E. Move Kronwall, despite how much of an anathema such a move would be for Holland. Keep Smith and plug him into the group with the kids (so something like Green, Dekeyser, Smith, kiddie carousel).

This board slams the team for being a country club and what not, part of that is not making the hard decision that these vets we want to be loyal to don't play well enough to make that loyalty at all workable. And we're now standing to lose better players because of it.

Howard was not a backup when he was signed to that deal. By any reasonable estimation... Mrazek would just be starting as the backup in Detroit this year. Mrazek shooting up like a rocket doesn't change that Howard didn't sign a backup's contract.

How many highly touted goalies have flamed out after one great season? Or big time prospects flare out in the minors and play like garbage in the big time.

This one will always stick in my craw. The contract for Howard was not a bad one when it was signed and it should not retroactively become a bad one because Mrazek surpassed expectations.

There are several deals that made zero sense from the day they were drawn up, like Abby and Helm. Howard's was a deal that looks exponentially worse because a prospect exceeded expectations.

Yeah, I've never had a problem with Howard's contract. I don't want to carry it AND Mrazek's, but that doesn't mean Howard is crazy overpaid or anything. His injury troubles since the contract was signed don't help, but when he's been healthy he's largely been a good goalie. At times quite a bit better than good. And we've since seen goalie contracts surpass him and push his deal to the middle of the pack.

It's okay to want to move the guy and his contract without the guy or the contract being "bad."
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
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The idea wasn't adding to those contracts, it was moving those contracts however possible instead. Is Smith better than E? Yeah, I think so, largely because E is hobbled and can't seem to play his game for an entire season any more. Same with Kronwall. I think Smith is better than the kids, too. So, move E. Move Kronwall, despite how much of an anathema such a move would be for Holland. .

The point is that you can't, and since you can't, you need to be more diligent with the contracts you are giving out.

This board slams the team for being a country club and what not, part of that is not making the hard decision that these vets we want to be loyal to don't play well enough to make that loyalty at all workable. And we're now standing to lose better players because of it.

Yup, we should have been more critical with those deals from the start. But we didn't. I defended Smith for a long, long time on here but I'm not going to lose any sleep over letting Brendan Smith walk.
 

Winger98

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The point is that you can't, and since you can't, you need to be more diligent with the contracts you are giving out.

Yup, we should have been more critical with those deals from the start. But we didn't. I defended Smith for a long, long time on here but I'm not going to lose any sleep over letting Brendan Smith walk.

Uh-uh, I'm not buying that these guys can't be moved. And if we're really wanting a rebuild we need those guys moved.
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
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Uh-uh, I'm not buying that these guys can't be moved. And if we're really wanting a rebuild we need those guys moved.

I think it's more people are framing their expectations and hopes in the realm of Holland's reality.
 

jaster

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Jun 8, 2007
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we will know is value by 3pm tomorrow

no trade means he has no value as any return should be good enough for us, a non playoff team and with vanek being a UFA and non detroit red wing draft pick/development success story

He'll be moved. I'll bet a case of beer on it.

(in case of you winning bet, must come to Chicago to redeem said case of beer)
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
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He'll be moved. I'll bet a case of beer on it.

(in case of you winning bet, must come to Chicago to redeem said case of beer)

What type of return you thinking? Or not that much of a gambler? ;)
 

jaster

Take me off ignore, please.
Jun 8, 2007
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What type of return you thinking? Or not that much of a gambler? ;)

I have no idea what the return will be. Some of these deadline deals devolve into multiple layers of head games and tom foolery. I originally thought a 2nd rounder, but it sounds like it will be less than that now. But I'm still very confident he does get moved, for something.
 

Zetterberg4Captain

Registered User
Aug 11, 2009
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He'll be moved. I'll bet a case of beer on it.

(in case of you winning bet, must come to Chicago to redeem said case of beer)

I do in fact think he will be traded because I do think he has value

If he isnt traded, then clearly my assessment of him having value is wrong
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
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I have no idea what the return will be. Some of these deadline deals devolve into multiple layers of head games and tom foolery. I originally thought a 2nd rounder, but it sounds like it will be less than that now. But I'm still very confident he does get moved, for something.

I think we'll see a conditional deal. Something where if said team gets into the conference finals, the pick moves up. Maaaaybe he can work that to a conditional 1st rounder if there's more than one team bidding.
 

Ezekial

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He'll be moved. I'll bet a case of beer on it.

(in case of you winning bet, must come to Chicago to redeem said case of beer)

I'll claim his beer. I'm not willing to make that bet for myself though, as barring injury tonight, I see him on another team.
 

Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
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I think it's more people are framing their expectations and hopes in the realm of Holland's reality.

Which is fair, but we also shouldn't be talking about this team rebuilding anywhere other than fantasy land, either. For as bad as this team has been this year, we're not exactly far off being in that area where there isn't a chance Holland is selling, and we're competing for that last bubble spot or two.
 

golffuul

Registered User
Oct 24, 2011
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Miller in for Ott, tonight. Assume Ott is going to be traded.

Edit: Ansar Khan says that Blashill has not been told to sit anyone. So...just Blashill being Blashill. *facepalm*
 

Number1RedWingsFan52

Registered User
Mar 17, 2013
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Miller in for Ott, tonight. Assume Ott is going to be traded.

Edit: Ansar Khan says that Blashill has not been told to sit anyone. So...just Blashill being Blashill. *facepalm*

At least as of now any ways, Still over 6 hours before game time. Any thing can happen. I mean if there's a chance that Vanek could get dealt tomorrow why play him tonight and risk injury.
 

Birko19

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Aug 13, 2002
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Good Kenny, that's what we like to hear!


So far so good, let's keep it up Kenny, you're doing good so far:

0mKXcg1.gif
 

silkyjohnson50

Registered User
Jan 10, 2007
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Which is fair, but we also shouldn't be talking about this team rebuilding anywhere other than fantasy land, either. For as bad as this team has been this year, we're not exactly far off being in that area where there isn't a chance Holland is selling, and we're competing for that last bubble spot or two.

Which is exactly why I wish they'd sell Green now and try to get a 2018 1st for him.

I could absolutely see us clawing for the 8th seed next season just because of parity and not selling anything.
 

Shadywing19

Registered User
Jan 26, 2013
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Trade

Helm, Gator, Miller, Ott, Howard, Riley and Nyquist

i agree. tho id maybe hesitate to sell so low on riley and nyquist. their value has to be lower than normal considering the regression both are experiencing. id maybe hang onto them till next years trade deadline and hope they increase their trade values a bit.

tho i do suppose you also run the risk of them regressing even more and therefore decreasing their trade value even more..
 

Mount Suribachi

Registered User
Nov 15, 2013
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Which is exactly why I wish they'd sell Green now and try to get a 2018 1st for him.

I could absolutely see us clawing for the 8th seed next season just because of parity and not selling anything.

I don't see us trading Green unless someone offers Holland a kings ransom. Without Green on our D we are basically giving up on next season and I dont know that KH is prepared to do that yet
 

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