News Article: Friedman says Detroit is "open for business"

[Fugu]

Burn it down.

I really don't see how this club does anything other than plough face first through the earth as it finishes its fall. I'm not against a rebuild but I was expecting a more controlled descent by this management group.



Jensen's also averaged a whopping 16 minutes a game this year, playing in few high pressure situations. I'm not a Smith fan, and I know you were responding to a post using points, but by the same token I'm not seeing a guy who can step in and play the 20+ minutes Smith has been playing this month (and doing pretty well at it).

Pretty much why I'm on this train. He does much better when he's given good opportunities. He was NOT a Babs style player whatsoever, and he did extremely well (better than the other D) when he was up with Datsyuk's line.

However, yes, the entire thing needs to be blown up at this point. There's a problem when you spend a ton on the players, almost the least amount on a coach and then expect decent results.

 

[Syckle78]

I don't read many of the threads anymore because it just got too depressing. I think this fan base grew up on Yzerman-Feds-Lidstrom, soon followed by Datsyuk-Z-Lidstrom. Our standards for centers, wingers and defenders were incredibly high. It has to stop and you have to be realistic that many of the current guys are just not going to get their numbers retired, or end up on the Greatest 100 NHL'ers lists.

That also doesn't mean there is something seriously wrong with these players. My biggest question however is how do you end up with the highest cap spending in the NHL, while your record is almost dead last in the league. Something went wrong somewhere, but again, I don't really hold these younger players responsible. This team should be a bit better than we've seen, so blame the coach and GM.

By having an absolutely terrible gm with no discernable plan other than squeezing the last dollars possible out of the hockey townâ„¢ brand. Players are being blamed,coaches are being blamed and lord knows the GM is being blamed. Everything sucks right now from the roster to the prospect pool. Everyone is getting called out right now. Trust me it's not just smitty.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

Put it this way... I'll take Jensen for 800K over Smith for ~3 million every time.

Smith needs a new team, and we don't need another bloated contract on the back end. Play these kids on ELC's or RFA extensions like Sproul, XO, Jensen, etc.

Exactly this.

Then to round out the D corps, sign a cheap vet UFA or two in the summer on 1 or 2 year deals. These can then also be flipped at the deadline.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I don't read many of the threads anymore because it just got too depressing. I think this fan base grew up on Yzerman-Feds-Lidstrom, soon followed by Datsyuk-Z-Lidstrom. Our standards for centers, wingers and defenders were incredibly high. It has to stop and you have to be realistic that many of the current guys are just not going to get their numbers retired, or end up on the Greatest 100 NHL'ers lists.

That also doesn't mean there is something seriously wrong with these players. My biggest question however is how do you end up with the highest cap spending in the NHL, while your record is almost dead last in the league. Something went wrong somewhere, but again, I don't really hold these younger players responsible. This team should be a bit better than we've seen, so blame the coach and GM.

And if they move Smith, Vanek, and Jurco as is kind of thought will happen... they're not spending the most in the league anymore. Trade Green like some people want and you're nowhere close.

The highest payroll in the league is a talking point for people pushing for a tank. As evidenced by them doing it... you can clear salary away if you have decent enough players. Trade Vanek, Green, and Smith and you've cleared 11M. And for that, you're losing an okay top 6 wing, a good middle pairing D and Brendan Smith.

People drastically overstate the problem of "highest payroll in the league". Now, they do need to be far more responsible with their contracts to guys like Abby and Helm, but if push came to shove... I'm sure they could clear Helm off the books for a mid round pick if they really had to.

 

[Fugu]

Why not clear Abby and Ericsson as well?

I mean, if we're seriously talking about blowing it up, well blow it up. Give them away for the figurative bag of pucks because their cost far exceeds the value to this team. Nibbling around the edges and refusing to re-sign better players because the other guys have longer contracts? That's idiotic.

 

[Syckle78]

Why not clear Abby and Ericsson as well?

I mean, if we're seriously talking about blowing it up, well blow it up. Give them away for the figurative bag of pucks because their cost far exceeds the value to this team. Nibbling around the edges and refusing to re-sign better players because the other guys have longer contracts? That's idiotic.

Because nobody is going to take them? I don't understand. This isn't an either or thing. If we could move them I'm sure we'd all contribute to their airfare out of town.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

The other defenders making mistakes are locked in for another 3, 4, 5 years no matter what we want done. Dekeyser just signed a 5 year deal, Ericsson is singed until 2020, Kronwall is signed until 2019.

No one is taking Kronwall or Ericsson off our hands. I'd love to have someone else take the Dekeyser contract, but you know Kenny isn't moving a Michigan kid when the rest of our defense is a mess.

So yeah, we don't want another guy getting overpaid who doesn't create much offense is just kinda there.

LTIR is taking Kronwall off of our hands next season. I still contend that Smith has been way better under Blash than under Babs. That being said, the only way I would ever want him back is if Kenny knows that E wants to hang them up as well next season.

 

[izlez]

Friendly reminder that cap space does not get you bonus points in the standings.

And players better than Abby generally don't hit free agency. If they do, you're just 1 in 25 teams throwing a boatload of cash at them.

 

[Syckle78]

Friendly reminder that cap space does not get you bonus points in the standings.

And players better than Abby generally don't hit free agency. If they do, you're just 1 in 25 teams throwing a boatload of cash at them.

Players better than abby hit free agency every single year.

 

[Frk It]

Jensen's also averaged a whopping 16 minutes a game this year, playing in few high pressure situations. I'm not a Smith fan, and I know you were responding to a post using points, but by the same token I'm not seeing a guy who can step in and play the 20+ minutes Smith has been playing this month (and doing pretty well at it).

Jensen has played 20 min or more (im counting 19:59 against Pittsburgh) 3 times over the last month, and has a goal, an assist, and is +3 in those games.

Smith has played 20 mins or more 5 times over the last month, and has 0 goals, 0 assists, and is a -1 in those games.

 

[ShanahanMan]

Friendly reminder that cap space does not get you bonus points in the standings.

And players better than Abby generally don't hit free agency. If they do, you're just 1 in 25 teams throwing a boatload of cash at them.

Is this a joke?

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

What wording do you want, exactly?

"We will move Vanek. It doesn't matter what it takes. We will take a conditional 7th rounder. If we can't get that, we will cut him."

"The Detroit Red Wings intend on moving Thomas Vanek at Wednesday's trade deadline." Something that indicates trading him is the focus, and not just a happy accident that may arise.

 

[izlez]

Sorry, "significantly better".


Somehow I don't think not having the cap space to put in bids on Milan Lucic, Andrew Ladd, and Louie Eriksson is the thing holding this organization down.

 

[izlez]

"The Detroit Red Wings intend on moving Thomas Vanek at Wednesday's trade deadline." Something that indicates trading him is the focus, and not just a happy accident that may arise.

That is very much literally the same exact thing.

http://www.synonym.com/synonyms/hope to

 

[Winger98]

Pretty much why I'm on this train. He does much better when he's given good opportunities. He was NOT a Babs style player whatsoever, and he did extremely well (better than the other D) when he was up with Datsyuk's line.

However, yes, the entire thing needs to be blown up at this point. There's a problem when you spend a ton on the players, almost the least amount on a coach and then expect decent results.

If we didn't have Kronwall/Ericsson locked in for another 2/3 years, I think folks would be fine keeping Smith around. I would. But this club is so horribly mismanaged with its roster and cap that the cutting has to start somewhere, and those guys aren't movable.

I'm not even arguing where Smith fits on this blueline. I just don't think it matters much with how poor the team is.

 

[HockeyinHD]

Hope to? I hope that's his wording, because it just sounds too Holland-y for words. "Well, we tried to move Vanek for a top pairing defenseman, but there were no buyers. Guess we have to keep him."

Would you trade Vanek for a 4th round pick now, or would you wait until the UFA period and trade his negotiating rights for a 4th later?

The point is, if a team is going to try and steal him you have to at least give yourself the rhetorical option of not allowing yourself to be robbed.

I'm not saying I think that's a likely outcome, but common sense dictates you don't run nude into the middle of Woodward holding your laptop up in the air screaming 'PLEASE OH GOD PLEASE TRADE WITH ME!' either. There's a middle ground here, where you note a willingness to trade, perhaps a specific or two, and then you see what happens.

 

[Winger98]

Jensen has played 20 min or more (im counting 19:59 against Pittsburgh) 3 times over the last month, and has a goal, an assist, and is +3 in those games.

Smith has played 20 mins or more 5 times over the last month, and has 0 goals, 0 assists, and is a -1 in those games.

Jensen's also played less than 15 minutes 3 times the past month, and the two times he's broken twenty minutes it's been by 13 and 38 seconds.

Smith has played 21, 23, 24, 22, and 23 minutes. And he's +3 in those five games, not -1.

And in the entire month of January where Smith wasn't playing? Jensen broke 17 minutes twice.

 

[Frk It]

Jensen's also played less than 15 minutes 3 times the past month, and the two times he's broken twenty minutes it's been by 13 and 38 seconds.

Smith has played 21, 23, 24, 22, and 23 minutes. And he's +3 in those five games, not -1.

And in the entire month of January where Smith wasn't playing? Jensen broke 17 minutes twice.

Smith also will look like a #2 for a month, then be a healthy scratch for a month. You want to pay 3 million for that? Go ahead.

 

[Winger98]

Because nobody is going to take them? I don't understand. This isn't an either or thing. If we could move them I'm sure we'd all contribute to their airfare out of town.

Holland won't move them unless he got a good offer. And it probably should be an either/or thing if at all possible. I mean, it is stupid to get rid of the better player and I think Smith is better on a night to night basis than Ericsson. So, do we do what really is best for the team, or just do what's convenient and easy? I think Holland's path is pretty clear in that regard, and a lot of us have chosen to accept it.

 

[HockeyinHD]

If we didn't have Kronwall/Ericsson locked in for another 2/3 years, I think folks would be fine keeping Smith around. I would. But this club is so horribly mismanaged with its roster and cap that the cutting has to start somewhere, and those guys aren't movable.

I'm not even arguing where Smith fits on this blueline. I just don't think it matters much with how poor the team is.

Enh.

Franzen's deal effectively disappears as a cap consideration this year, IIRC. 3.95.
Smith is gone. 2.75
Vitale and Miller are gone. 2.1ish.
Vanek is gone. 2.6

That's nearly 12 mil in cap space which is going to open up for certain. Detroit's going to lose somebody in the expansion draft, and they can easily protect every good contract on the roster. Whether it's Nyquist or Howard or Ericsson or Kronwall, the team is very likely going to lose a bad contract. Figure another 4 mil in space.

There's a non-zero (but less than 50/50) chance that they'll shed all or most of Kronwall or Howard's deal even if they aren't taken in the expansion draft.

They have to re-sign Tatar, who has been very helpful in making sure he won't get a huge offer. They have to re-sign AA, who is not going to get a huge offer.

Detroit will have a ton of cap space this upcoming offseason (although there's a case to be made for not using it), and they are a couple fairly simple moves away from having a gaping chasm of cap space by 2018.

I don't think the question is 'how could the Wings even try and improve themselves', because I think it's fairly evident they could. I think the question is... bzzt bzzt, garblegarble...

please see Tank Thread for more information

 

[Winger98]

Smith also will look like a #2 for a month, and then be a healthy scratch for a month.

He's often a very short leash, though. I mean, look at Ericsson. When Ericsson is playing well, I think he's better than Smith, but Ericsson hasn't been playing well for quite awhile. Smith screws up, definitely, but enough to be benched for a month? I don't think so.

Also, this past month is the first time the Wings have really done what we ask them to do with a lot of guys - put him on the ice, and if he screws up, live with it, and keep putting him out there. To Smith's credit he's responded very well the past month.

I'm not even really advocating for keeping Smith, I'm just tired of this cluster bomb of a roster right now and am pretty okay seeing it crash and burn at the moment. But the guy is probably one of our top4 D, and is better than other guys who either get a free pass or who we just accept won't be moved for whatever reason.

 

[Syckle78]

Sorry, "significantly better".


Somehow I don't think not having the cap space to put in bids on Milan Lucic, Andrew Ladd, and Louie Eriksson is the thing holding this organization down.

Has anyone said that?

 

[InjuredChoker]

Would you trade Vanek for a 4th round pick now, or would you wait until the UFA period and trade his negotiating rights for a 4th later?

The point is, if a team is going to try and steal him you have to at least give yourself the rhetorical option of not allowing yourself to be robbed.

I'm not saying I think that's a likely outcome, but common sense dictates you don't run nude into the middle of Woodward holding your laptop up in the air screaming 'PLEASE OH GOD PLEASE TRADE WITH ME!' either. There's a middle ground here, where you note a willingness to trade, perhaps a specific or two, and then you see what happens.

to me, common sense says that if player has value of 4th rd pick now, his negotiation rights aren't anywhere close to worth a 4th rd pick.

 

[Winger98]

Enh.

Franzen's deal effectively disappears as a cap consideration this year, IIRC. 3.95.
Smith is gone. 2.75
Vitale and Miller are gone. 2.1ish.
Vanek is gone. 2.6

That's nearly 12 mil in cap space which is going to open up for certain. Detroit's going to lose somebody in the expansion draft, and they can easily protect every good contract on the roster. Whether it's Nyquist or Howard or Ericsson or Kronwall, the team is very likely going to lose a bad contract. Figure another 4 mil in space.

There's a non-zero (but less than 50/50) chance that they'll shed all or most of Kronwall or Howard's deal even if they aren't taken in the expansion draft.

They have to re-sign Tatar, who has been very helpful in making sure he won't get a huge offer. They have to re-sign AA, who is not going to get a huge offer.

Detroit will have a ton of cap space this upcoming offseason (although there's a case to be made for not using it), and they are a couple fairly simple moves away from having a gaping chasm of cap space by 2018.

I don't think the question is 'how could the Wings even try and improve themselves', because I think it's fairly evident they could. I think the question is... bzzt bzzt, garblegarble...

please see Tank Thread for more information

$12m off a roster that's nearly $7m over the cap ceiling. In reality we have close to $5m in cap space this summer, $9m if you include Franzen and plan on going over the cap again. Around $4m of that will be tied up in Tatar.

 

[Fugu]

Because nobody is going to take them? I don't understand. This isn't an either or thing. If we could move them I'm sure we'd all contribute to their airfare out of town.

Like Winger said, that's just an excuse. Is Holland really working it and giving up, or does he truly believe these guys are better, at 2-3x the cost as well? THAT is the concerning part.

LTIR is taking Kronwall off of our hands next season. I still contend that Smith has been way better under Blash than under Babs. That being said, the only way I would ever want him back is if Kenny knows that E wants to hang them up as well next season.

E should have been dumped years ago.

He's often a very short leash, though. I mean, look at Ericsson. When Ericsson is playing well, I think he's better than Smith, but Ericsson hasn't been playing well for quite awhile. Smith screws up, definitely, but enough to be benched for a month? I don't think so.

Also, this past month is the first time the Wings have really done what we ask them to do with a lot of guys - put him on the ice, and if he screws up, live with it, and keep putting him out there. To Smith's credit he's responded very well the past month.

I'm not even really advocating for keeping Smith, I'm just tired of this cluster bomb of a roster right now and am pretty okay seeing it crash and burn at the moment. But the guy is probably one of our top4 D, and is better than other guys who either get a free pass or who we just accept won't be moved for whatever reason.

Exactly. We had "interesting" stats on this forum too, mostly designed to figure out why Smith's stats weren't as bad as many on this forum claim him to be. He's actually a decent mid-level guy and he COSTS A HECK OF A LOT LESS than the brain surgeons Kenny loves. Ken needs to clear out the contracts that won't let him really do anything substantial. With guys like Mantha, Athanasiou, Larkin, and Tatar needing contracts soon, why would you blow that up by keeping E, Abby and even Helm?