Fire Maurice, Hire Boudreau

[Jetfaninflorida]

Our western conference competitors are holding coaches accountable

Flames Fire Last Year's Coach of the Year

http://www.tsn.ca/flames-fire-head-coach-hartley-1.482719

The Flames dropped 20 points last year to this year. I think we dropped 21.

That's two coaches from our Western Conference competition that takes accountability very seriously.

 

[surixon]

So is your solution to fire people after one bad year all the time? How do you expect to have any organizational stability if you do that. There were also different factors in play. If Lawless is to be believed Calgary's players threw him under the bus on the way out. Hartley was also not the choice of their current GM.

The Flames went out last year and tried to upgrade their team while the Jets went young leading to different organizational expectations.

 

[EpicGingy]

I was unaware that the Jets don't hold coaches accountable.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Maurice had a top 15 defenseman in the NHL permanently slotted in as our #3RW, Adam Lowry as our #1 Centre and Mark Stuart on the top defensensive unit on the PK. It was only injuries that corrected these mistakes, all fireable offences in my opinion. Maurice has all the answers to all the questions but nobody seems to question whether he has the right answers. Throw in the fact that he doesn't think its necessary to make any coaching changes on one of the league's worst special teams over the past 5 years and you have a fairly good case for firing the coach.

Bring on Brucey!

You are spinning Maurice's mistakes to exaggerate them. When he arrived Buff was already at 3RW. He kept it that way because he didn't trust Buff to play responsibly at D. The injuries forced the change but it probably would have come soon anyway. It seems that Buff promised to behave himself in return for a promise that he could stay at D because Buff has played better since that time than ever before. Sounds like pretty good coaching to me.

He tried Lowry in the top 6 as an experiment to se if he could handle it and leverage Lowry's strengths. It didn't work. Maurice stopped doing it. Unfortunately it seemed to derail Lowry.

Stuart on the 1st PK unit (or any other) is hard to excuse. It appeared last year that PMo had finally figured it out. Nobody's perfect. We will see what he does next year.

I'm not claiming Maurice hasn't made some pretty bad mistakes. I want to see if he is a little slow to fix them (acceptable) or refuses to fix them (unacceptable). It is telling that we were warned of exactly these kinds of problems by Carolina fans when he was hired here.

He now has better options for these players (Stu, Thor and Pav) than what he has ever had before. IMO continuing to use them as starters will be unacceptable. I wish they could be not used at all. If he continues to have the most penalized team in the league that will be unacceptable although I think the Jets get a lot of reputation penalties from referees who should know better but apparently don't. It may take a couple of years of hard work to correct that. If he continues to have the worst combined special teams in the league that will be unacceptable. I think there is a lot of variance in ST performance such that the worst are not as bad as they may seem and the best are not as good. They can be doing a masterful job of killing a penalty for 1:50 and 1 small misstep with seconds to go results in a GA. The PP can be terrible but a few seconds of making 1 good move and they are rewarded with a goal. But our PP last year just kept getting worse. They became more and more tentative and got so that they couldn't even gain the zone or maintain possession. Terrible.

Those are all pure coaching issues. Those are the issues I'm going to judge him on, not the standings. If Maurice doesn't do much better next year I will climb aboard the fire him bandwagon but it is too soon right now.

If we did fire him I wouldn't be in favour of hiring Boudreau to replace him.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

You are spinning Maurice's mistakes to exaggerate them. When he arrived Buff was already at 3RW. He kept it that way because he didn't trust Buff to play responsibly at D. The injuries forced the change but it probably would have come soon anyway. It seems that Buff promised to behave himself in return for a promise that he could stay at D because Buff has played better since that time than ever before. Sounds like pretty good coaching to me.

No, actually I'm not spinning. Buff was the #3RW for exactly one consecutive game when Maurice got here in the 2013-14 and had been voted into the all-star game as a defenseman all the years prior.

One game. That is not the entrenched/inherited and rigid line structure and team chemistry that a new coach might concern himself with maintaining. If anyone is spinning, it is you now, when you speculate that changing Buff back to defense "probably would have come soon anyway". Buff was the #3RW for the end of 2013-14 and the start of 2015-16. He did not get to practise or take shifts at training camp as a defenseman. When asked by the media if Byfuglien was "starting the year" at forward, Maurice said very firmly that he would "start and end the year as a forward". Presumably, if he didn't trust Buff, he'd have tried to correct those mistakes at practise or at camp, no? Could you imagine someone sticking Zdeno Chara on the wing after a few bad games then leaving him there until 4 or 5 defensemen got injured? No. They would get fired if they did that.

He tried Lowry in the top 6 as an experiment to see if he could handle it and leverage Lowry's strengths. It didn't work. Maurice stopped doing it. Unfortunately it seemed to derail Lowry.

Wrong again. He didn't get to put his experiment into operation because both Little and Ladd were injured at training camp and so he begrudgingly went with the same lines as the year before. How anyone could assess Adam Lowry as being even remotely close to #1C is beyond belief. That is the point and it is not exaggerated.

Stuart on the 1st PK unit (or any other) is hard to excuse. It appeared last year that PMo had finally figured it out. Nobody's perfect. We will see what he does next year. I'm not claiming Maurice hasn't made some pretty bad mistakes. I want to see if he is a little slow to fix them (acceptable) or refuses to fix them (unacceptable). It is telling that we were warned of exactly these kinds of problems by Carolina fans when he was hired here.

He now has better options for these players (Stu, Thor and Pav) than what he has ever had before. IMO continuing to use them as starters will be unacceptable. I wish they could be not used at all. If he continues to have the most penalized team in the league that will be unacceptable although I think the Jets get a lot of reputation penalties from referees who should know better but apparently don't. It may take a couple of years of hard work to correct that. If he continues to have the worst combined special teams in the league that will be unacceptable. I think there is a lot of variance in ST performance such that the worst are not as bad as they may seem and the best are not as good. They can be doing a masterful job of killing a penalty for 1:50 and 1 small misstep with seconds to go results in a GA. The PP can be terrible but a few seconds of making 1 good move and they are rewarded with a goal. But our PP last year just kept getting worse. They became more and more tentative and got so that they couldn't even gain the zone or maintain possession. Terrible.

Those are all pure coaching issues. Those are the issues I'm going to judge him on, not the standings. If Maurice doesn't do much better next year I will climb aboard the fire him bandwagon but it is too soon right now.

If we did fire him I wouldn't be in favour of hiring Boudreau to replace him.

Don't take issue with most of the rest except that I have no idea why you would not favour hiring Boudreau. What specifically do you know about him or his systems that we don't? Winning percentage too high?

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

So is your solution to fire people after one bad year all the time?

I wanted to share the news with our community. I'm not proposing to fire people after one bad year all the time - no - to answer your question directly.

But there is a contrast here that brings something to mind. Something that we have discussed on this board on a number of occasions. Does TSNE place loyalty too high or too much above performance? I don't know the answer. But I will point out that even if you exclude our head coach, our special teams and goal tending has been bad for a long time. Maybe we could consider some coaching changes there.

All teams look for ways to improve. Small improvements in multiple areas can add up to big improvements in the standings given the parity in the league.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

Does TSNE place loyalty too high or too much above performance?

My take is that TNSE does place high value on loyalty. But it is obviously not boundless. We have fired a head coach, and traded a popular captain.

There is some value in displaying loyalty. I'm sure management staff and players both look on it favorably when considering an offer. When you're picking up your life and your family to move to a new city or country, some promise of stability looks pretty good.

That being said, it can obviously go too far. There's a few usual suspects we've held on to for too long, and if the reason is loyalty, then it was a mistake.

Regarding Maurice, my guess is that TNSE likes him as a coach, so loyalty hasn't played into his contract decisions (so far).

 

[almostawake]

I didn't say anything about BB actually choosing the Jets. Go back and read the post, it's about the Jets reconsidering in light of new information. If the Jets did that and called him, of course he'd pick up the phone and listen. He's not a hidebound jerk. [mod] The more options he has, the better his situation will be.

How do you know another team will offer more control? How do you know BB wouldn't be able to hire the staff he wants? Why would Winnipeg be viewed as a management that couldn't be trusted -- because you say so? Laughable.

Having said that, I think BB would likely sign elsewhere even if the Jets approached him (which I doubt they would), but it wouldn't be for imaginary reasons.

Why would Boudreau not trust the Jets? Seriously? Cheveldayoff and Maurice sat on a stage together and conducted the end of season "q and a" together saying that Maurice would be back.

No self respecting professional with a desire to be successful is going to take a job where the boss publicly lied to the person previously in the position, and then turned around and fired him.

That is utterly insane. It pretty much guarantees the Jets get only the dregs of the NHL coaching talent pool for the foreseeable future.

Look at the Calgary situation. Treliving conducted the season closing press event ALONE. In that press conference he explicitly stated that no decision had been made as to whether or not there would be changes to the coaching staff. He also said that the evaluation of that situation was starting that day, and that they hoped to wrap it up soon.

If you want to leave the door open to a coaching change, that is how is must be done. You can't sit the guy up there on the same stage and say there won't be any changes.

 

[Eyeseeing]

I was unaware that the Jets don't hold coaches accountable.

They hold them extendable
Just sayin...

 

[ellismate]

Why would Boudreau not trust the Jets? Seriously? Cheveldayoff and Maurice sat on a stage together and conducted the end of season "q and a" together saying that Maurice would be back.

No self respecting professional with a desire to be successful is going to take a job where the boss publicly lied to the person previously in the position, and then turned around and fired him.

That is utterly insane. It pretty much guarantees the Jets get only the dregs of the NHL coaching talent pool for the foreseeable future.

Look at the Calgary situation. Treliving conducted the season closing press event ALONE. In that press conference he explicitly stated that no decision had been made as to whether or not there would be changes to the coaching staff. He also said that the evaluation of that situation was starting that day, and that they hoped to wrap it up soon.

If you want to leave the door open to a coaching change, that is how is must be done. You can't sit the guy up there on the same stage and say there won't be any changes.

You make it seem as though the coach wouldn't get paid until the end of their contract, regardless of whether they were working or not. I'm sure getting fired early in your contract, then double dipping salaries is ideal for coaches.

 

[surixon]

You make it seem as though the coach wouldn't get paid until the end of their contract, regardless of whether they were working or not. I'm sure getting fired early in your contract, then double dipping salaries is ideal for coaches.

Its called professionalism. How you treat people matters in the business world. It matters even more when you are in a highly competitive industry and the top talent in that industry is in high demand and can effectively choose where to go.

Be honest if you were a highly sought after individual would you give the Jets a second thought if they couldn't be trusted at their word. I am a professional and I wouldn't think of working for an organization where I couldn't trust management to keep its word. As mentioned this isn't performance related as Maurice has already had his annual review and management has deemed his performance as satisfactory enough to elect to bring him back.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

No, actually I'm not spinning. Buff was the #3RW for exactly one consecutive game when Maurice got here in the 2013-14 and had been voted into the all-star game as a defenseman all the years prior.

One game. That is not the entrenched/inherited and rigid line structure and team chemistry that a new coach might concern himself with maintaining. If anyone is spinning, it is you now, when you speculate that changing Buff back to defense "probably would have come soon anyway". Buff was the #3RW for the end of 2013-14 and the start of 2015-16. He did not get to practise or take shifts at training camp as a defenseman. When asked by the media if Byfuglien was "starting the year" at forward, Maurice said very firmly that he would "start and end the year as a forward". Presumably, if he didn't trust Buff, he'd have tried to correct those mistakes at practise or at camp, no? Could you imagine someone sticking Zdeno Chara on the wing after a few bad games then leaving him there until 4 or 5 defensemen got injured? No. They would get fired if they did that.



Wrong again. He didn't get to put his experiment into operation because both Little and Ladd were injured at training camp and so he begrudgingly went with the same lines as the year before. How anyone could assess Adam Lowry as being even remotely close to #1C is beyond belief. That is the point and it is not exaggerated.



Don't take issue with most of the rest except that I have no idea why you would not favour hiring Boudreau. What specifically do you know about him or his systems that we don't? Winning percentage too high?

My recollection of the facts doesn't match yours. 1 game? You sure?

Yes Boudreau has a good winning % in the regular season. Has he ever had to coach a team that didn't have a very strong roster? He's 61. Is he likely to be the best fit for the youngest team in the league? Maybe he should be considering retirement. That said I wouldn't necessarilly refuse to hire him but he wouldn't be at the top of my list.

 

[Board Bard]

Why would Boudreau not trust the Jets? Seriously? Cheveldayoff and Maurice sat on a stage together and conducted the end of season "q and a" together saying that Maurice would be back.

No self respecting professional with a desire to be successful is going to take a job where the boss publicly lied to the person previously in the position, and then turned around and fired him.

That is utterly insane. It pretty much guarantees the Jets get only the dregs of the NHL coaching talent pool for the foreseeable future.

Look at the Calgary situation. Treliving conducted the season closing press event ALONE. In that press conference he explicitly stated that no decision had been made as to whether or not there would be changes to the coaching staff. He also said that the evaluation of that situation was starting that day, and that they hoped to wrap it up soon.

If you want to leave the door open to a coaching change, that is how is must be done. You can't sit the guy up there on the same stage and say there won't be any changes.

You can do it any way you want if you're the GM. Anyone wanting to be a head coach in the NHL will answer your phone call and listen to what you have to say, and if he gets the job, he'll be glad the previous guy got fired, in whatever way it happened. This is real life where people have ambitions and families need feeding, not fantasy filmdom.

 

[Duke749]

Flames Fire Last Year's Coach of the Year

http://www.tsn.ca/flames-fire-head-coach-hartley-1.482719

The Flames dropped 20 points last year to this year. I think we dropped 21.

That's two coaches from our Western Conference competition that takes accountability very seriously.

This is assuming the coaches were the problem and everyone knows BB should not be unemployed at the moment.

Personally I also don't see what the Fkames accomplish by firing Hartely either. Not sure it's his fault their goaltending was atrocious all year.

 

[FinJetster]

To hire a guy of whom Winnipeg's hero Teemu Selänne said: "If it wasn't for him, I'd probably still be playing". No thanks. And for the record, not Hartley either. We've seen what he can do within this franchise (Thrashers) already. Not much.

 

[Whileee]

This is assuming the coaches were the problem and everyone knows BB should not be unemployed at the moment.

Personally I also don't see what the Fkames accomplish by firing Hartely either. Not sure it's his fault their goaltending was atrocious all year.

It wasn't just their goaltending. The Flames were an atrocious team in shot metrics.

 

[johna2626]

This is assuming the coaches were the problem and everyone knows BB should not be unemployed at the moment.

Personally I also don't see what the Fkames accomplish by firing Hartely either. Not sure it's his fault their goaltending was atrocious all year.

I think you should fire him if you feel it's an upgrade

 

[kcin94]

You can do it any way you want if you're the GM. Anyone wanting to be a head coach in the NHL will answer your phone call and listen to what you have to say, and if he gets the job, he'll be glad the previous guy got fired, in whatever way it happened. This is real life where people have ambitions and families need feeding, not fantasy filmdom.

As someone with a family to feed, I would certainly think twice before taking a job with erratic bosses who one day say to people "this is our guy" and then fire him shortly after when nothing has changed. We are not talking about a first time coach who wants to get his foot in the door in any way possible.

 

[kcin94]

I think you should fire him if you feel it's an upgrade

It's not that simple. Here is a scenario.

If you are a student taking a class (or perhaps a young player, learning to be a pro) if makes sense to have the best teacher.

A class starts, and the school realizes the teacher (Noel) is not great. They fire them and hire the new guy(Maurice). Now the student who got used to the teacher has to get used to a new teaching style. Just as they have gotten the hang of it, the school fires another teacher and hires a new guy having to learn a new system again.

At some point, having re-learn new systems just gets in the way. I teach and have taken over from bad teachers from time to time. There is always a portion of students who have a hard time adjusting to new teacher mid-stream, regardless of whether the teacher is better.

Now obviously this can be taken to extremes. We are not talking about changing coaches multiple times a year, nor keeping a coach for 25 years. The point is that it's more complicated than "fire him if you feel it's an upgrade"

 

[Thai jet*]

Assistants

Good idea, but will not happen. Maurice should realistically be given 20-40 games next season to prove he can turn it around.

Agree if assistants are fired now and some pressure is applied with the new guys. Atl had a better PP with the same core players. Maybe Phil Housley would come back if promoted to Assoiate Head Coach. Oates as skills coach. Another ex head coach for the forwards. I went back as far as the ESPN site would allow and Maurice has never had very good special teams. Bring in new guys for those and Maurice can concentrate on our good 5 on 5. I hope that turns things around.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Not saying cost is a factor but with the way Babcock McLennen reset the coaching salary scale, how much will Boudreau get offered? Gotta think it'll be in the $4-$5M per season range. That's several times Maurice's salary. Plus the severance package you'd have to give PoMo to make him go away.

 

[powder88]

I was unaware that the Jets don't hold coaches accountable.

That's odd...I was unaware that the Jets do hold them accountable!

 

[Gm0ney]

That's odd...I was unaware that the Jets do hold them accountable!

Well, Claude Noel got fired. And Keith McCambridge this year. They're not a quick-to-fire organization by any measure though...

 

[EpicGingy]

That's odd...I was unaware that the Jets do hold them accountable!

They fired Noel after 2 1/2 years of disappointment which is actually pretty typical, fired McCambridge after the Moose and our new prospects performed below expectations (not that the roster was amazing to begin with). So the only coaches that a rational person would be upset over any perceived lack of accountability are the assistants who have been here from the start, but from what I've read Pomo wanted to keep them anyways so if that's on anybody it's him.

Maurice has been here for 2 1/2 seasons, I was happy with the direction of the team for the first season and a half. He shouldn't be fired after one disappointing season because the grass looks greener on the outside right now.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

My recollection of the facts doesn't match yours. 1 game? You sure?

Yep, one game. Officially moved to forward for the game vs the Blue Jackets, which was the last game coached by Noel.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/dustin-byfuglien-moving-to-forward-for-jets-1.2492153

I trust you will take back the "spinning" allegation.

Yes Boudreau has a good winning % in the regular season. Has he ever had to coach a team that didn't have a very strong roster? He's 61. Is he likely to be the best fit for the youngest team in the league? Maybe he should be considering retirement. That said I wouldn't necessarilly refuse to hire him but he wouldn't be at the top of my list.

What on earth does age have to do with it? Hitchcock is four years older, while Quennville, Sutter, Ruff, Julien are all within 2-5 years of him. As for dealing with youth, aside from the fact that he has no reputation of stifling youth or difficulty dealing with young players, we know that Selanne hated him in his twighlight years because Teemu was put on the 3rd line and off the top unit of the power play. On the other hand, we have all kinds of evidence that Maurice has favoured veterans throughout his career.

Boudreau had a long and successful career winning championships in the ECHL and AHL before getting a sniff in the NHL - where he's put up one of the best winning percentages in history. Boudreau is not Phil Jackson who only coached dynasties. The Capitals and Ducks were not the 80s Oilers but his team's were always perennial contenders when he was there but seemed to underperform under other coaches (Hunter, Oates in Washington and Carlyle in Anaheim). His record speaks for itself and its miles better than Paul Maurice's.