Salary Cap: Faux News: Fehr and Balanced Off-Season Pens coverage

[blazinblair]

This Staal talk is ridiculous. Why would he want to come back and be stuck behind Crosby and Malkin again. Staal has no fit on this team and would just end up being a contract that has to be moved in a couple years when we figure out were paying too much money for a 3rd line centre again.

 

[Riptide]

I'm not sure what Carolina would want for him, I kind of think Sundqvist would be going the other way. Maybe something like Staal for Sprong, Bennett, Dumoulin, both 2nds and Scuderi??? We would also need to move Kunitz, probably for D help.

I would not do that trade. I'm not opposed to trading Bennett, as at this point I think he looks further away from being what we need and hoped for... but it has to be in a trade that makes sense. And I'm not really all that interested in trading Sprong, Dumoulin and both of those 2nds. We need Sprong (and ideally Bennett or another prospect) and at least 1 of those 2nds to turn out to be top 6 guys in 2-4 years as we have to make decisions on guys like Perron and Hornqvist.

This team is at a point where we really need to start focusing on the future. If we expect to be competitive as Crosby and Malkin age, we need to get better at drafting and developing players - because that's where our "core" in 5-6 years had better have come from - or we're screwed. Do you want to look like the Canucks do now in 5 years? No? Then we need to start drafting and developing players.

 

[Riptide]

Maybe remove a second? I don't think much of Bennett with the pens, he was just a roster player going three other way

While I agree in a sense (his odds of being a top 6 player look a lot longer then they did 2 yrs ago), we still can't afford to just toss him away. BB/CK/Lovejoy in a trade for a top 4D? Sure. The other team gets someone with some potential, a replacement D and CK. But I'm not just going to toss him away. Not yet anyway. Because the bottom line is that he still hasn't played a lot of pro games.

 

[Pete Gas]

I think with the signing of Cullen that safely eliminates any chance of Staal coming back

 

[Jacob]

This Staal talk is ridiculous. Why would he want to come back and be stuck behind Crosby and Malkin again.

Because now he knows he actually benefitted from being behind them.

 

[888 98 twins]

How so?

Not really.

Perron - Crosby - Hornqvist
Kunitz - Malkin - Kessel
Dupuis - Bonino - Fehr/Bennett
Plotnikov - Cullen - Fehr/Bennett
XXXXX - XXXXX

It's not really a surprise JR wanted to get a little more F depth... Like with the blueline, we have some real question marks up front. I mean who knows what version of Kunitz we'll get. Or how healthy Dupuis will be. Or if Plotnikov (or any other WBS guys) are able to make the jump to the NHL. Or what level Bennett will be at. Or when exactly Fehr will return to from injury.

Lots of questions there, and signing Cullen to be our #4C just gives us a lot more options. Not to mention another solid PKer.

I don't see how Bennett could be a better 4th line player than Sundqvist, Rust or Wilson right now (or ever really). I feel like they honestly wanted to leave one spot on the roster open for those young AHL guys to fight for. Beau Bennett is not a better hockey player at this point in his career than any forward on that roster except for maybe Plotnikov, who is an unknown. If he isn't above average defensively, doesn't hit, doesn't skate better than average, and can't use his talent to produce... what does him playing on the 4th line do for us? FWIW, I see the lines right now looking like

Perron-Crosby-Hornqvist
Kunitz/Plots-Malkin-Kessel
Kunitz/Plots-Fehr-Dupuis
Bonino-Cullen-Bennett

And I think that 4th line could benefit more from having a strong skater like Rust or Wilson or a physical and defensive presence like Sundqvist rather than a playmaker who doesn't produce in Bennett.

 

[Waffle Fries]

I don't see how Bennett could be a better 4th line player than Sundqvist, Rust or Wilson right now (or ever really). I feel like they honestly wanted to leave one spot on the roster open for those young AHL guys to fight for. Beau Bennett is not a better hockey player at this point in his career than any forward on that roster except for maybe Plotnikov, who is an unknown. If he isn't above average defensively, doesn't hit, doesn't skate better than average, and can't use his talent to produce... what does him playing on the 4th line do for us? FWIW, I see the lines right now looking like

Perron-Crosby-Hornqvist
Kunitz/Plots-Malkin-Kessel
Kunitz/Plots-Fehr-Dupuis
Bonino-Cullen-Bennett

And I think that 4th line could benefit more from having a strong skater like Rust or Wilson or a physical and defensive presence like Sundqvist rather than a playmaker who doesn't produce in Bennett.

I think your view of a fourth line is archaic. This team was built with a vision of four scoring lines. Bonino and Bennett's games are great compliments to each other offensively. The line with Fehr and Dupuis will be giving you more of what you expect from a traditional fourth line.

The idea that Bennett doesn't hit also isn't really true, he has definitely shown a willingness to play physical in the past. After he came back from his injuries, he was more tentative. Hopefully after a strong off-season, he pushes those fears aside.

 

[888 98 twins]

I think your view of a fourth line is archaic. This team was built with a vision of four scoring lines. Bonino and Bennett's games are great compliments to each other offensively. The line with Fehr and Dupuis will be giving you more of what you expect from a traditional fourth line.

The idea that Bennett doesn't hit also isn't really true, he has definitely shown a willingness to play physical in the past. After he came back from his injuries, he was more tentative. Hopefully after a strong off-season, he pushes those fears aside.

And how is that line going to score goals? I would argue that a guy who is more willing to play the game in the dirty areas will be more of a complement to Bonino and Cullen than Bennett. Again, we can say we want 4 scoring lines til we're blue in the face and that Bennett would be good to have on a scoring line... But until he shows he can either SCORE or do something else to help the team win, he doesn't belong on a 4th line.

 

[Riptide]

And how is that line going to score goals? I would argue that a guy who is more willing to play the game in the dirty areas will be more of a complement to Bonino and Cullen than Bennett. Again, we can say we want 4 scoring lines til we're blue in the face and that Bennett would be good to have on a scoring line... But until he shows he can either SCORE or do something else to help the team win, he doesn't belong on a 4th line.

Well I want to see him with someone other than Lapperier and Sutter before I say he can't "score". Also, just him possessing the puck down low is helping this team win. Our 3rd and 4th line this year are BOTH better than what our 3rd line was last year. Basically... this is Bennett's year and if he can't do anything with it now, then yeah, perhaps it's time to look to trade him. But there's no reason to dump him now. His value is meh, and it's not like Wilson/Rust/Sundqvist are better players right now that it makes sense to bench him to play them. Besides... we're going to have a ton of different options and with Fehr out for a 1-2.5 months, one of the WBS guys will be playing anyway. And that's IF Kunitz and Dupuis are actually able to play and Plotnikov's game does transition to the NHL.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

This Staal talk is ridiculous. Why would he want to come back and be stuck behind Crosby and Malkin again. Staal has no fit on this team and would just end up being a contract that has to be moved in a couple years when we figure out were paying too much money for a 3rd line centre again.

Jordan Staal is in a situation where his brother is likely trade bait at the deadline or walks in the summer, the whole reason he even entertained the idea of leaving if the negotiations didn't go well with the Pens was to play alongside Eric. Now that's ending sooner than he'd like.

The Hurricanes should be in full rebuild mode, Francis can't accept it seems.

If he was smart, he would move Eric asap to recoup picks and prospects, then see if there is a good deal to be made for Jordan, but I would hope Jordan just wants out and to the Penguins only.

Make it easier on the Pens to trade for him.

Although, no clue what the Pens would need to offer up.

I don't want to lose Maatta or Pouliot.

 

[Waffle Fries]

And how is that line going to score goals? I would argue that a guy who is more willing to play the game in the dirty areas will be more of a complement to Bonino and Cullen than Bennett. Again, we can say we want 4 scoring lines til we're blue in the face and that Bennett would be good to have on a scoring line... But until he shows he can either SCORE or do something else to help the team win, he doesn't belong on a 4th line.

You don't see how a skilled playmaker compliments a guy like Bonino? And again, Bennett is willing to play in the dirty areas when he's not wearing two knee braces.

It's pretty bizarre that you're arguing that Bennett hasn't shown anything, yet you are advocating for three guys who have shown even less.

Edit:

Also look at the scoring rates from the guys on our 3rd line last year. Downie (1.76 P/60), Spaling (1.43 P/60), and Sutter (1.27 P/60) produced at a lower rate than Bonino (2.09 P/60), Cullen (1.67 P/60) and Bennett (1.29 P/60). If our new fourth line can produce at higher rates than our old third line, I think we're going a long way in accomplishing our goal in having four lines that can score.

 

[888 98 twins]

Well I want to see him with someone other than Lapperier and Sutter before I say he can't "score". Also, just him possessing the puck down low is helping this team win. Our 3rd and 4th line this year are BOTH better than what our 3rd line was last year. Basically... this is Bennett's year and if he can't do anything with it now, then yeah, perhaps it's time to look to trade him. But there's no reason to dump him now. His value is meh, and it's not like Wilson/Rust/Sundqvist are better players right now that it makes sense to bench him to play them. Besides... we're going to have a ton of different options and with Fehr out for a 1-2.5 months, one of the WBS guys will be playing anyway. And that's IF Kunitz and Dupuis are actually able to play and Plotnikov's game does transition to the NHL.

You don't see how a skilled playmaker compliments a guy like Bonino? And again, Bennett is willing to play in the dirty areas when he's not wearing two knee braces.

It's pretty bizarre that you're arguing that Bennett hasn't shown anything, yet you are advocating for three guys who have shown even less.

I guess the two points that I want to get across are that

1)I don't think Bennett's game translates to a 4th line role playing 10 minutes a night, no matter who he's playing with. Bonino-Cullen-Bennett would especially be sort of a weird 4th line to me. A bunch of guys who know how to handle the puck and maintain possession, but who are pretty vanilla other than that.

2)And I think this is more important- I truly think Beau still has some value league-wide. He is one of the few expendable assets JR has to play with. I'm betting if JR packaged him with Kunitz or Lovejoy, he'd be able to upgrade at either of those positions. I don't know if the 4th line would miss a beat if Rust, Wilson, or Sundqvist took Bennett's spot. He's a guy I would have been OK with putting with Sid or Geno for a tryout for a while to start the season, but we just have better players in front of him in scoring line roles now.

 

[Waffle Fries]

I guess the two points that I want to get across are that

1)I don't think Bennett's game translates to a 4th line role playing 10 minutes a night, no matter who he's playing with. Bonino-Cullen-Bennett would especially be sort of a weird 4th line to me. A bunch of guys who know how to handle the puck and maintain possession, but who are pretty vanilla other than that.

2)And I think this is more important- I truly think Beau still has some value league-wide. He is one of the few expendable assets JR has to play with. I'm betting if JR packaged him with Kunitz or Lovejoy, he'd be able to upgrade at either of those positions. I don't know if the 4th line would miss a beat if Rust, Wilson, or Sundqvist took Bennett's spot. He's a guy I would have been OK with putting with Sid or Geno for a tryout for a while to start the season, but we just have better players in front of him in scoring line roles now.

I see our "fourth" and "third" lines playing equal minutes. It's a 3A and 3B situation. They'll average 12-14 minutes a night each, maybe more, maybe less. A lot will probably be dictated based on match-ups. I think you are much too focused on the number of the line. Puck skills and possession sounds like a perfectly fine identity for a bottom six line to me. Much better than what we've had in the past.

I also don't see how you can simultaneously believe both that 1.) Bennett has value around the league and 2.) You can replace him with Rust or Wilson without missing a beat.

Sundqvist is a different situation. There's a high probability he'll be on the team to start the season with Fehr's injury. If he plays well or other injuries occur, it might never come down to him and Bennett.

 

[888 98 twins]

I see our "fourth" and "third" lines playing equal minutes. It's a 3A and 3B situation. They'll average 12-14 minutes a night each, maybe more, maybe less. A lot will probably be dictated based on match-ups. I think you are much too focused on the number of the line. Puck skills and possession sounds like a perfectly fine identity for a bottom six line to me. Much better than what we've had in the past.

I also don't see how you can simultaneously believe both that 1.) Bennett has value around the league and 2.) You can replace him with Rust or Wilson without missing a beat.

Sundqvist is a different situation. There's a high probability he'll be on the team to start the season with Fehr's injury. If he plays well or other injuries occur, it might never come down to him and Bennett.

I'm not insinuating Rust or Wilson are better hockey players than Beau. I'm more saying that he's redundant in our bottom-6. We have a lot of guys who are good possession guys while being average skaters. More speed would be as beneficial as having Beau's puck skills on one of those lines IMO.

But yeah, Sundqvist could be a really unique and useful player in our bottom-6 if he's NHL ready. Another PK guy, a big, physical presence, and the ability to be a part of a shutdown line if we need one late in a game.

 

[Waffle Fries]

I'm not insinuating Rust or Wilson are better hockey players than Beau. I'm more saying that he's redundant in our bottom-6. We have a lot of guys who are good possession guys while being average skaters. More speed would be as beneficial as having Beau's puck skills on one of those lines IMO.

But yeah, Sundqvist could be a really unique and useful player in our bottom-6 if he's NHL ready. Another PK guy, a big, physical presence, and the ability to be a part of a shutdown line if we need one late in a game.

I don't see how he's redundant in the bottom six. He's a playmaker. Only Kessel and Perron can bring that on the wings and they're both top-6 guys. The only other player penciled into our bottom six with offensive creativity is Bonino, and he would be the shooter on that line.

 

[lastcupever75]

http://thehockeypress.sportsblog.co...mor--jordan-staal-to-pittsburgh-penguins.html

Im gonna go out on a limb an guess that the hockey press isn't much of a credible site?

Oh Geez

hell no

 

[Frederick Stanley]

Is Clendening expected to compete for a job in the NHL this year?

 

[Son Goku]

Is Clendening expected to compete for a job in the NHL this year?

Serious doubts he ever will

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Serious doubts he ever will

Do explain.

 

[Ogrezilla]

And how is that line going to score goals? I would argue that a guy who is more willing to play the game in the dirty areas will be more of a complement to Bonino and Cullen than Bennett. Again, we can say we want 4 scoring lines til we're blue in the face and that Bennett would be good to have on a scoring line... But until he shows he can either SCORE or do something else to help the team win, he doesn't belong on a 4th line.

Bennett is willing and capable of going to dirty areas when he's healthy. He's not going to camp in front of the net, but I'd pick Bennett to come out of a board battle with the puck over Rust or Wilson more often than not.

 

[mpp9]

Cullen's actually a decent playmaker too.

 

[mpp9]

Because now he knows he actually benefitted from being behind them.

I forgot Eric's a pending UFA. This could actually get interesting.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Unless we want a disastrous defense forever, we can't bring Staal back.

Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Letang and new deals for Hornqvist, Perron and Maatta.

That's too much to be tied up to think about a $6M/yr 3C.

 

[Fordy]

Bennett is willing and capable of going to dirty areas when he's healthy. He's not going to camp in front of the net, but I'd pick Bennett to come out of a board battle with the puck over Rust or Wilson more often than not.

bennett was absolutely camping in front of the net before the 2nd knee injury last year

 

[Asuna]

Alright, so new lines now:

Perron - Crosby - Hornqvist
Plotnikov - Malkin - Kessel
Kunitz - Bonino - Fehr
Dupuis - Cullen - Bennett

Very solid depth there. Players can move up/down when needed. When injuries hit, you can bring up Sundqvist/Wilson/Rust...decent depth players for the bottom 6.