Confirmed with Link: Eric Staal (50% retained) to NYR for two 2nds (2016//2017) and Aleksi Saarela

[RodTheBawd]

In some cases it's a fan construct, yes, but not in this case. This organization has tried to build around EStaal as the franchise cornerstone for years, constantly looking for complementary linemates to bolster his limitations while paying him as if he makes others around him better players.

Clearly, they wouldn't be building around him if he's re-signed but why acquiesce to an extended term for a declining, complementary player? It doesn't make sense, he's not adding leadership value like a rundown Brindy did as his performance fell way off. This team still needs more speed and playmakers and that isn't Staal so I'd take the $5M/year being floated and make better use of it via trades.

How? Who is out there, be it in FA or available via trade, that you would nab? That's what I can't get past.

 

[StormCast]

How? Who is out there, be it in FA or available via trade, that you would nab? That's what I can't get past.

Already mentioned in another thread (or maybe it was this one) that I'd make a major push for Matt Duchene and his affordable salary of around $6M/year. There was talk earlier about the Avs having a glut of F's but lacking D and his name specifically was being floated as being available. Not sure how their need for D has changed now that they acquired Gelinas for a song. Duchene fills both the speed and playmaking needs among top 6 forwards and he still has years left on his deal.

 

[What the Faulk]

In some cases it's a fan construct, yes, but not in this case. This organization has tried to build around EStaal as the franchise cornerstone for years, constantly looking for complementary linemates to bolster his limitations while paying him as if he makes others around him better players.

Clearly, they wouldn't be building around him if he's re-signed but why acquiesce to an extended term for a declining, complementary player? It doesn't make sense, he's not adding leadership value like a rundown Brindy did as his performance fell way off. This team still needs more speed and playmakers and that isn't Staal so I'd take the $5M/year being floated and make better use of it via trades.

How many years in a row has something like this been said? How many times has it been done? If the option to upgrade Staal is there, you have to explore it. I'm just not confident it will be.

 

[StormCast]

How many years in a row has something like this been said? How many times has it been done? If the option to upgrade Staal is there, you have to explore it. I'm just not confident it will be.

Been said to death but hopefully RF is true to his word, turns the corner and gets it done. Think too about the fanbase. Once the immediacy of the Staal trade wears off, are you more excited to see him brought back for more of the same or the roster infused with good, dynamic and new talent?

 

[What the Faulk]

Of course I'd rather see them bring in a Duchene-type player, but I think that's way easier said than done. If that doesn't work out (and I honestly suspect it won't) I don't see why anyone wouldn't be agreeable to a Staal return. I'd rather see that than either 1) Overpaying/overslotting a Bolland/Beleskey 2) Filling the void with quantity over quality 3) Nothing.

 

[RodTheBawd]

I'd definitely be interested in Duchene, but I'm sure 20+ other teams would be as well

 

[StormCast]

Of course I'd rather see them bring in a Duchene-type player, but I think that's way easier said than done. If that doesn't work out (and I honestly suspect it won't) I don't see why anyone wouldn't be agreeable to a Staal return. I'd rather see that than either 1) Overpaying/overslotting a Bolland/Beleskey 2) Filling the void with quantity over quality 3) Nothing.

These kinds of trades are always easier said than done but Carolina desperately needs to make a splash and they have the payroll flexibility and assets to do it unlike prior years under JR's tweaking.

Yes, I classified a Duchene acquisition as probably wishful thinking. He'd be in demand but the good news is that the Canes would likely be one of the top trading partners out there given the Avs' stated needs and the Canes' D depth and collection of picks. Even with the recent Gelinas addition, their D corps needs substantial improvement.

 

[Ole Gil]

Doesn't seem like it has to be an either/or situation. Signing Eric Staal at 5ish doesn't prevent them from adding Duchene, and you'd still have the cash to add another top tier player.

 

[bleedgreen]

We're not getting Duchene. Pretty sure any actual talk about him was motivational. They can't lose Stastny, O'reilly AND Duchene. Leaves them with Mack and Soderberg. Sakic knows to build down the middle and they won't be a better team for trading the guy, especially with whatever people here on the this board would offer. He isn't being sold, you can't offer first round picks and Murphy.

They'd be right to ask for Faulk.

How are we getting Staal at 5 mill?!? For 4 years to boot?

If anyone actually believes that, pm me what you've been having because I'd like two of them.

 

[RodTheBawd]

We're not getting Duchene. Pretty sure any actual talk about him was motivational. They can't lose Stastny, O'reilly AND Duchene. Leaves them with Mack and Soderberg. Sakic knows to build down the middle and they won't be a better team for trading the guy, especially with whatever people here on the this board would offer. He isn't being sold, you can't offer first round picks and Murphy.

They'd be right to ask for Faulk.

How are we getting Staal at 5 mill?!? For 4 years to boot?

If anyone actually believes that, pm me what you've been having because I'd like two of them.

There's a difference between what we'd like/be willing to pay, and what he'll actually get. I couldn't stomach something like 6x5, but he very well might get more. I just hope to god it isn't here.

 

[HisIceness]

I don't think so. The Bruins retired that third they're wearing (the so-called Pooh Bear jerseys) after the 2005-06 season. Additionally I know some teams took the Thank You Fans banners off the ice at varying points during that 2005-06 season (I think the Canes might have been one of the only teams to have kept them on the ice throughout the season).

Given these facts:

• Tim Thomas is the Boston Bruins goalie;
• The Bruins are wearing their Pooh Bear thirds;
• The trapezoid is present behind the net;
• The game is being played in Boston;
• Staal's goal is at 4:20 of the 3rd period; and
• Staal's goal takes it from 2-1 Bruins to a tie game

the only game that this could be was our game against Boston on March 18, 2006. Hardly his first NHL goal considering he had scored 40 previously that season alone and had scored 11 in his actual debut season, 2003-2004. Elementary, my dear HisIceness.

Good research here GP. I like to think I remember at least one game against every opponent he Hurricanes played ten years ago but for the life I cannot remember a game against Boston but I seem to recall we sucked against them that year.

Staals first goal IIRC was at Boston and was on a breakaway so the video seemed to be legit to be his first from my viewpoint.

 

[What the Faulk]

How are we getting Staal at 5 mill?!? For 4 years to boot?

If anyone actually believes that, pm me what you've been having because I'd like two of them.

I threw a number and term out based on the fact that he's probably going to be negotiating with two teams, one of which is cap-strapped and the other cash-strapped. Of all players in the NHL, he's probably in the 1st percentile of caring about his salary. Word is the term is why he hadn't signed here before being traded. 5x4 is probably enough to satisfy him without breaking the bank, and 4 years takes him to 35 (though I wonder if he wants 6 years as that's when Jordan will be a UFA)

That's 3 probablys, so don't go quoting me if it doesn't happen and he signs in Calgary for 7 million.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

The devil you know...

Only applies if there's nothing but bad choices out there. And depending on whether you believe Staal will bounce back, there could be plenty of better choices.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I guess saying there are "plenty" of better choices depends on how one view Staal. If you view him as a 3rd line center at best, then yes, there are plenty of options. If you view him (even in his current state) as a top 6 center, then there are very few options.

 

[StormCast]

Doesn't seem like it has to be an either/or situation. Signing Eric Staal at 5ish doesn't prevent them from adding Duchene, and you'd still have the cash to add another top tier player.

Well, he'd slot as a 3C so why do it even if he'd agree to a below market value deal? I find it interesting that most of the pre-trade Staal talk over the last couple seasons was that he's a lazy floater. Now that he's gone, he's an essential add for some? Makes little sense to me.

We're not getting Duchene. Pretty sure any actual talk about him was motivational. They can't lose Stastny, O'reilly AND Duchene. Leaves them with Mack and Soderberg. Sakic knows to build down the middle and they won't be a better team for trading the guy, especially with whatever people here on the this board would offer. He isn't being sold, you can't offer first round picks and Murphy.

As stated, it's mostly wishful thinking but their D is in need of serious retooling and there are no real difference-makers on the UFA market. Plus MacKinnon and Barrie are going to get paid in their RFA years. Agreed though about a guy like Murphy as centerpiece, that's crazy talk. It would be a coup to get him for Fluery+1st rounder (Canes not LA's)+ but that doesn't really solve the Avs' need for a more immediate impact NHL Dman.

 

[NotOpie]

I guess saying there are "plenty" of better choices depends on how one view Staal. If you view him as a 3rd line center at best, then yes, there are plenty of options. If you view him (even in his current state) as a top 6 center, then there are very few options.

....and based on Peters' comments yesterday about giving Lindholm games at center to see where he stands, some interesting situations/options surface. I caused me to look at things through this template:

Nordstrom (resigned RFA)/Staal/XXX
Skinner/Rask (resigned RFA)/Di Giuseppe
XXX/Lindholm/XXX
XXX/McClement/XXX

Nestrasil (unknown currently as there's no way to know how his recovery goes - anticipated to be 3 months)

Hainsey/Faulk
Pesce/Wisniewski
Hanifin/Slavin

XXX
Lack

So without making any assumptions about Aho or any of the other prospects (Charlotte or otherwise), that's 5 forwards, one of which needs to be a top line guy. Move the lines around, calling one or the other the top line and the 3rd line. It doesn't matter.

What that means to me, is that if Lindy works out at center, then our needs take us away from Eric and more toward a couple of skill guys and/or a couple of big, fast guys. I'd be shocked if one of those guys doesn't come via UFA signing or via a trade. We also have Nash, McGinn, or even Brody Sutter to fill in on the 4th line. If Nesty comes back and is his old self, you plug him right back in on Jordan's line. Any way you shake this out you might end up getting a favorable 3rd line match up, if you focus it on scoring.

Lots of questions to answer in the off season for Ronnie.....

 

[bleedgreen]

I threw a number and term out based on the fact that he's probably going to be negotiating with two teams, one of which is cap-strapped and the other cash-strapped. Of all players in the NHL, he's probably in the 1st percentile of caring about his salary. Word is the term is why he hadn't signed here before being traded. 5x4 is probably enough to satisfy him without breaking the bank, and 4 years takes him to 35 (though I wonder if he wants 6 years as that's when Jordan will be a UFA)

That's 3 probablys, so don't go quoting me if it doesn't happen and he signs in Calgary for 7 million.

I guess I don't understand why he's the one player in the NHL who doesn't really care about his salary. Other than an over the hill guy hoping for a tryout after he's made millions, I can't say I've seen that before. Estaal is only 31, plenty of earning potential there and there's no reason for him to turn money down.

They're telling us it was all about term but that might just be everyone being diplomatic. RF has too much class to say anything different. Also, RF said estaal didn't ask for the moon - but we have no idea what that means. I would be pretty shocked if anything under 6 was ever discussed. RF may have paid him anywhere in the 6-8 range for three years - which may have been why "term" is being used as the culprit. Top six forwards are generally getting in the 6 range, not sure why he would negotiate himself as anything lower than that. I assume he asked for more than that.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

^^ Without knowing too much of the particulars, I'm going to assume Nestrasil will be back. It's 7 months before the start of the season. Also, based on what RF and BP said, I'd be surprised if Aho is NOT on the team next year. As far as Lindholm, it all depends who the bring in. If it's another C, then he'll be RW again. If it's wingers, then he'll likely be slotted at C. Assuming E. Staal isn't back for the moment:

???? - Rask - ????/Lindholm
Nordstrom - Staal - Nestrasil (why mess with a good thing)
Skinner-Lindholm/????-Aho
PDG - McClement - Nash
????

I think they re-sign Nash to a cheap deal with the thoughts that he's their long term 4C once McClement moves on. He can play 4th line RW in the mean time, PK and fill in elsewhere (PP, 3rd line) as injuries occur. A cheap insurance policy IMO.

Also, with how well Slavin has played, I'd have to think the Canes are at least thinking about moving Fleury. Personally, I'd first want to see what he's got. Maybe not this year as they may want Slavin and Hanifin to have another year under their belt, but it makes sense to look at that as an option. How well Ryan does the rest of this year could answer 1 of those ???? though. Not sure if he's a solution or not, but if he plays well enough, he could take a spot.

 

[Ole Gil]

Well, he'd slot as a 3C so why do it even if he'd agree to a below market value deal? I find it interesting that most of the pre-trade Staal talk over the last couple seasons was that he's a lazy floater. Now that he's gone, he's an essential add for some? Makes little sense to me.

Put him on the wing in the top 6. Looks like the Rangers are going to use him everywhere, for example. Then if Jordan or Mystery #1C get hurt, you've got depth that can slide in without torpedoing the lineup. I can't speak for the people who call Staal lazy.

And he's not essential, he's just an option on a team that sometimes doesn't seem to have a lot of options when it comes to adding players.

 

[StormCast]

Put him on the wing in the top 6. Looks like the Rangers are going to use him everywhere, for example. Then if Jordan or Mystery #1C get hurt, you've got depth that can slide in without torpedoing the lineup. I can't speak for the people who call Staal lazy.

And he's not essential, he's just an option on a team that sometimes doesn't seem to have a lot of options when it comes to adding players.

Yeah, I saw him in his Ranger debut getting shuffled across lines and positions. But if you play him at wing than he's definitely getting overpaid for what he brings. Again, my point is if his name wasn't Staal, nobody would be talking him up as a viable option. I don't see how his ROI would work so I'd just wish him well.

 

[Ole Gil]

Yeah, I saw him in his Ranger debut getting shuffled across lines and positions. But if you play him at wing than he's definitely getting overpaid for what he brings. Again, my point is if his name wasn't Staal, nobody would be talking him up as a viable option. I don't see how his ROI would work so I'd just wish him well.

Depends on the pay, and what you need him to bring. A 40+ point possession dominant player is worth what? 5 million+? Who are some comparables?

 

[bleedgreen]

I'm not in the group that assumes Aho is stepping in immediately and producing, and I'm definitely not assuming he's top 6. I do think if he has a good camp he'll get a shot at playing third center which could also affect where Lindy goes. Hopefully Lindy gets his shot for the remainder of the season and does something with it.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I'm not in the group that assumes Aho is stepping in immediately and producing, and I'm definitely not assuming he's top 6. I do think if he has a good camp he'll get a shot at playing third center which could also affect where Lindy goes. Hopefully Lindy gets his shot for the remainder of the season and does something with it.

I think he's likely to be a 3rd line RW if he makes the team, but based on what I'm hearing from RF and BP, I'll be surprised if he doesn't make the team. Obviously how he does in camp will be the deciding factor, but IMO, he won't need to blow it out of the water, just has to have a decent camp. Not saying that he couldn't stand another year of development either in Finland or the AHL, just reading between the lines as to what they are saying.

But I do agree with you that I'd be hard pressed to assume he'll step into the top 6.

 

[NotOpie]

^^ Without knowing too much of the particulars, I'm going to assume Nestrasil will be back. It's 7 months before the start of the season. Also, based on what RF and BP said, I'd be surprised if Aho is NOT on the team next year. As far as Lindholm, it all depends who the bring in. If it's another C, then he'll be RW again. If it's wingers, then he'll likely be slotted at C. Assuming E. Staal isn't back for the moment:

???? - Rask - ????/Lindholm
Nordstrom - Staal - Nestrasil (why mess with a good thing)
Skinner-Lindholm/????-Aho
PDG - McClement - Nash
????

I think they re-sign Nash to a cheap deal with the thoughts that he's their long term 4C once McClement moves on. He can play 4th line RW in the mean time, PK and fill in elsewhere (PP, 3rd line) as injuries occur. A cheap insurance policy IMO.

Also, with how well Slavin has played, I'd have to think the Canes are at least thinking about moving Fleury. Personally, I'd first want to see what he's got. Maybe not this year as they may want Slavin and Hanifin to have another year under their belt, but it makes sense to look at that as an option. How well Ryan does the rest of this year could answer 1 of those ???? though. Not sure if he's a solution or not, but if he plays well enough, he could take a spot.

BBA, I agree with nearly all that have said here. If I was plugging in players that I think will be back I'd have Nash and Nestrasil in the matrix. I, too, think Aho is over here next year and plays on the big squad which might look something like:

Nordstrom/Staal/Nestrasil
Aho/Lindholm/XXX
Skinner/Rask/PDG
XXX/McClement/Nash
Extra Forward

Hainsey/Faulk
Hanifin/Wisniewski
Slavin/Pesce
Extra Defender

Lack
#2 Goalie

I admit that I might be a bit biased but I don't see Di Giuseppe on the 4th line even if Peters gives those guys more minutes than most. He's still got a lot of scoring upside in my book. That leaves 5 slots open for youngsters and UFA/trades to fill: a 2nd line forward, a 4th line forward, the 13th forward, the 7th blueliner, and the other goalie.

If Lindy doesn't prove to be the centerman that some think him to be, you either try Aho there or you fill it via trade or UFA. I'd probably look very hard at Brody Sutter for the 4th line forward position (maybe Woods). The extra forward is the extra forward. Ditto for the extra defender. Goalie is up to the brain trust as I have my opinion but this isn't the place for that argument.

 

[Ole Gil]

BBA, I agree with nearly all that have said here. If I was plugging in players that I think will be back I'd have Nash and Nestrasil in the matrix. I, too, think Aho is over here next year and plays on the big squad which might look something like:

Nordstrom/Staal/Nestrasil
Aho/Lindholm/XXX
Skinner/Rask/PDG
XXX/McClement/Nash
Extra Forward

Hainsey/Faulk
Hanifin/Wisniewski
Slavin/Pesce
Extra Defender

Lack
#2 Goalie

That lineup has bottom 5 in goals tattoo'd on it's forehead.