Confirmed with Link: Duchene to OTT in three-team trade

[danielpalfredsson]

I can't see this guy wanting to re-sign with the club.

I think I said in past posts that we're currently living in the worst case scenario of the Duchene trade, but I was wrong. All this losing, and then Duchene walking, that's probably the worst case scenario....

 

[HSF]

How can people already be saying that Turris is better than Duchene lol... It's like saying after 4 months last season that JT Miller is better than Brassard, or something to that effect.

So far I realized that Duchene is a better possession player, better skater, better passer, and much stronger on the puck. I'm not sure about the rest yet. What Turris had on him is integration in Boucher's system.

Many plays died on Turris' stick on our PP on the left side, and down low in the offensive zone in general. It's been the polar opposite for Duchene for those two specific things. Too bad the whole team has sucked in sync though.

Its typical HF knee jerk reaction. There are people here who actually are thinking of trading Karlsson LOL

Turris was super weak along the boards and it drove me nuts. Duchene is already a much stronger player coming off the boards

 

[Wondercarrot]

The combination of a cheap owner not commited to winning and a coach he dislikes was more than enough reason to want out. I can't give up my source but I know he wanted out. Like I said in the other thread take it for what you want. I've been right before, every time I provide inside information I get a massive back last because it's not what people want to hear.

No worries just curious.
I was told by people who would definitely know, that he did not get offered ANY contract, and that while he disliked Boucher he did not want to leave.
Always interested in hearing your thoughts here, for many many years now - we are old.

 

[Baby Ryan]

With everything you guys describe and the results seen on the ice, I think their absolutely could be a strong case that losing Turris has caused a locker room disruption which has caused the coach to lose the team.

Ottawa fans need not be defensive over the idea that trading Turris for Duchene was a mistake. Skill wise, they are similar. But you don't know what impact removing Turris would have had until it happened.

Personally I don't see this slide happening before the trade. Ottawa's trademark was hard work, and a devotion to that successful but boring system. A system doesn't suddenly stop working over night. The players just stopped working the system. There is a reason they've stopped working. And I think it's related to losing Turris.

They were already slipping and sliding before the trade. It was honestly only a matter of time before that snowball collected too much and started rolling fast - not that I'm saying the trade had zero effect.

Their play leading up to the trade was nothing like it was to break open the season/last year.

 

[robsenz]

Its typical HF knee jerk reaction. There are people here who actually are thinking of trading Karlsson LOL

Turris was super weak along the boards and it drove me nuts. Duchene is already a much stronger player coming off the boards

I'll second this. I like what I see from Duchene, but he doesn't have the shot or playmaking abilities that Turris does.

 

[Thundr70]

Turris may not be a #1 center, but the Preds already have a #1(Johansen), If one thing Turris brings to the Preds Is making Fiala and Smith better for that second line. The second line is feeling it right now and when they go cold the JOFA will get hot. He has just gave stability to the Preds. I watch the Sens once in while and I think they will recover this year.

 

[Wondercarrot]

I don’t think you know that for sure. And even if a concrete offer was never made, there certainly would have been discussions about contract frameworks.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

 

[Fandlauer]

I think I said in past posts that we're currently living in the worst case scenario of the Duchene trade, but I was wrong. All this losing, and then Duchene walking, that's probably the worst case scenario....

Worse would be signing Duchene to an albatross of a contract and being stuck for the next 7-8 years a la Ryan. Sometimes its better to just lick your wounds and regroup.

 

[Drytoast]

They were already slipping and sliding before the trade. It was honestly only a matter of time before that snowball collected too much and started rolling fast - not that I'm saying the trade had zero effect.

Their play leading up to the trade was nothing like it was to break open the season/last year.

Correct me if I'm wrong but were you guys not comfortably in third, even creeping on Toronto for second???

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Worse would be signing Duchene to an albatross of a contract and being stuck for the next 7-8 years a la Ryan. Sometimes its better to just lick your wounds and regroup.

I don't think that's a plausible scenario. Duchene is a fine player. Given the context, I am not at all worried by his lack of production. Nobody is producing, not even Erik "Top 3 player in the league" Karlsson. In fact, the upside to this terrible streak is that Duchene's leverage to push for a 7 or 8 million dollar deal is quickly getting swept away. He knows what low end 1Cs are worth, and won't accept scraps, but the Sens will be in a position to get the guy signed to something palatable if he wants to be here.

A 6 year deal takes him from 28-34. I can't see him bargaining for much more than 6 or 6.5 million at this point, similar to the Turris contract. I'd expect something like 6 years, 6.5M. Which with where the cap is going, for Duchene from 28-34 should not be an albatross.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Well they gave up a 1st and Bowers.

Exactly. Our 2017 1st (Bowers) and our 2018/2019 1st.

 

[Baby Ryan]

Correct me if I'm wrong but were you guys not comfortably in third, even creeping on Toronto for second???

On-ice play-by-play on a per game basis continually got more and more inconsistent.

The PP wasn't super. The PK that was once impenetrable in the early parts started having huge declines. Things were just falling apart slowly, despite what the standings said at the time. They were barely hanging on with their OT/Shoot out points a huge part due to inconsistency in their play in several areas that just grew each game.

 

[bert]

Correct me if I'm wrong but were you guys not comfortably in third, even creeping on Toronto for second???

They were, and they blew a bunch of games. But what we have seen now since Sweden is nothing like they were playing before, people are just saying that to try and make themselves feel better about the deal. I am not saying is the only reason this is happening but I do think it was the last straw that struck the core of the leadership group that has all been traded, retired or lost in expansion. Mostly over money, potentially all over money, who knows what happened with Macarthur.

 

[bert]

How can people already be saying that Turris is better than Duchene lol... It's like saying after 4 months last season that JT Miller is better than Brassard, or something to that effect.

So far I realized that Duchene is a better possession player, better skater, better passer, and much stronger on the puck. I'm not sure about the rest yet. What Turris had on him is integration in Boucher's system.

Many plays died on Turris' stick on our PP on the left side, and down low in the offensive zone in general. It's been the polar opposite for Duchene for those two specific things. Too bad the whole team has sucked in sync though.

While you can make an argument for the other things there is no way on earth the bolded is true lol. Duchenes shot is not even close to Turris's and he certainly doesnt make the players around him better like Turris does.

 

[Sensinitis]

While you can make an argument for the other things there is no way on earth the bolded is true lol. Duchenes shot is not even close to Turris's and he certainly doesnt make the players around him better like Turris does.

Where do you see the word shot in my post?

I am not able to determine if Duchene is able to make players around him better to the degree that Turris does or better. Not yet anyways. If you are, cool. But I've seen Duchene feed his linemates in front of the net more than a few times with them missing the opportunity.

Also, it is noteworthy that "making the players around better" has a lot to do with hockey IQ and vision. I was simply talking passing (very fine line, I know).

 

[bert]

Where do you see the word shot in my post?

I am not able to determine if Duchene is able to make players around him better to the degree that Turris does or better. Not yet anyways. If you are, cool. But I've seen Duchene feed his linemates in front of the net more than a few times with them missing the opportunity.

Also, it is noteworthy that "making the players around better" has a lot to do with hockey IQ and vision. I was simply talking passing (very fine line, I know).

I figured if you were going to list all the things that Duchene is better than Turris at offensively why not weigh in equally on both sides.

Duchene has blinders on in the offensize zone. I think it is easy to see that Turris makes players around him better look whats happening to both players right now. Equal time on a new team, one players linemates have gone cold and one players linemates are hot.

Turris is a cerebral player, not individually talented like Duchene no but to me he brings more to the table. I find Duchenes lack of hockey sense to be truly astounding after watching him close after this many games. He is puck focused all the time, especially defensively, I cannot believe how he plays in his own zone.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

I figured if you were going to list all the things that Duchene is better than Turris at offensively why not weigh in equally on both sides.

Duchene has blinders on in the offensize zone. I think it is easy to see that Turris makes players around him better look whats happening to both players right now. Equal time on a new team, one players linemates have gone cold and one players linemates are hot.

Turris is a cerebral player, not individually talented like Duchene no but to me he brings more to the table. I find Duchenes lack of hockey sense to be truly astounding after watching him close after this many games. He is puck focused all the time, especially defensively, I cannot believe how he plays in his own zone.

I don't think you've watched Matt Duchene enough. He is a better passer than Turris. This is supported by the fact that Duchene has a significantly higher assist/game rate at the NHL level than Turris does, despite player in a dumpster fire in Colorado. Duchene is a very slick passer. He doesn't have the shot Turris does but he is a much better passer.

My bet is that by this time next year this board will love Matt Duchene. Probably sooner than that.

 

[HSF]

Why is Duchene vs Turris still a thing?

Just read below....Duchene at the time of the trade was a superior player

Is Matt Duchene really that much better than Kyle Turris?

As it turns out, all the underlying numbers suggest Duchene is the far superior player, despite his basic numbers registering similarly to Turris'.
Sure, two firsts and a third seem like a lot, but for a team that is clearly in win-now mode, this was a deal that needed to be made for Ottawa. Turris is a good player and a very solid No. 2 center, but Duchene's game-breaking ability puts the Sens over the top, and a much-needed change of scenery should only lead to more success.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

The Turris situation is he asked for a trade in the off-season. There I said it. Take it for what you will.

If true then that's a scary thought. Maybe keeping Boucher will scare off good players.

 

[Sens]

Zibanejad + Turris >> Brassard - Duchene

Younger and better

 

[UnHappyDude]

If true then that's a scary thought. Maybe keeping Boucher will scare off good players.

I think it has more to do with ownership and Dorion but what do I know

 

[OccidentalSoothsayer]

Duchene was scoring points on the Avs before the trade and Turris was struggling on the Sens before the trade

Perhaps its..the team

2017-18	Ottawa Senators*	NHL	11	3	6	9	2	-3
2017-18	Nashville Predators	NHL	13	3	9	12	6	3

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

One thing to remember....the players (and their wives/girlfriends) might not be totally honest with their neighbors, friends, and other sources...especially with something as intricate as trade talks. Players are told quite often not to give certain information to anyone outside of the dressing room.

 

[SensFactor]

Worse would be signing Duchene to an albatross of a contract and being stuck for the next 7-8 years a la Ryan. Sometimes its better to just lick your wounds and regroup.

Trade Duchene for Simmonds. Duchene may actually play better in Philly. And Simmonds is exactly the type of player Ottawa needs. He has the sandpaper and scoring ability we need

 

[Ice-Tray]

Trade Duchene for Simmonds. Duchene may actually play better in Philly. And Simmonds is exactly the type of player Ottawa needs. He has the sandpaper and scoring ability we need

I think it would be a terrible move to trade one of out top centre men for a winger, especially when we have a host of other assets we could use to acquire the player you desire.

Duchene is a good player for us, if there is no contractual need, we don't want to make lateral trades. Simmonds would be sorely received as well if he dare take several games to adjust, or happen to join the team during a time when not one good player is scoring...