Proposal: Drasaitil and Larsson for Marner +

[Skin Tape Session]

A bunch of >>>> doesn’t replace facts. Spin it however you want to, Draisaitl is bigger, plays a more important position, and has better results thus far. You like intangibles? Draisaitl is a great faceoff man. You like versatility? Drai is comfortable on the wing or on C. You like all situations play? Drai is effective at 5 on 5, PP, and PK when our special teams coaches aren’t idiots.

Now: Is he overpaid? Sure, probably a little, but you’d better hope Marner isn’t as good as Leaf fans think. I laugh when I see Toronto fans pump Marner and Matthews tires to no end but then turn around and expect them to sign ridiculously team friendly deals.

Marner’s amazing! So good! Best young talent in the league! He’s also gonna sign way under market value - 8 years 6 mil! Matthews 8x8! Nylander 8x5.5! Never going to happen, kids. You’re looking at 22-25 million for the three long term.

Would we like Marner? Sure. He’s a very good player. Would I give up Draisaitl to get him? **** no. Would I give up Draisaitl and Larsson to get Marner and trash? Again, **** no.

Wrong. A few people expect that, not anyone in the know. We know he is on another level than Ehlers and pasta.We know hes gonna cost 8. We know Matthes is better than Eichel and on Connors tier. We just hope they understand they play for the Yankees and can make money elsewhere.

Drai owes 3 plus million To connor imo

Having said all that, Im gonna hop outta this thread and be back in the leafs forum...Duh Winning!!!!! AINEC

 

[knifer]

I just dont know how you can say Marner and Matthews are both in Mcdavids tier and then say they're going to cost 8 a piece.

 

[The Big Unit]

Actually we wouldn't. we are in a cup process. Connor is great but the sadness that kid has looming over him is something we don't need to spend time trying to fix. Poor kid.
Never said he was as good, I said all their lives they were similar and their skill is similar. Its not linear , facepalm, dont expect you to understand AINEC

Sadness? What sadness are you talking about? The sadness that comes with a $100M contract, 2 straight Art Ross Trophies, a Hart and a Lindsay; I've never heard of this type of sadness before. Poor guy I think he needs counselling ASAP.

If their skill was similar, and the Leafs are clearly a better team than the Oilers, wouldn't it make sense that Marner would do better than 69 points? Even Matthews, with missing time was only on pace for 83 points man, that's 25 points less than McDavid. You can be as biased as you want but their skill level isn't similar. Not at all.

 

[voxel]

Meh on Marner... Oilers have been there and done that with smaller forwards who try to play C but can't.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Wrong. A few people expect that, not anyone in the know. We know he is on another level than Ehlers and pasta.We know hes gonna cost 8. We know Matthes is better than Eichel and on Connors tier. We just hope they understand they play for the Yankees and can make money elsewhere.

Drai owes 3 plus million To connor imo

Having said all that, Im gonna hop outta this thread and be back in the leafs forum...Duh Winning!!!!! AINEC

Draisaitl is worth a lot more than 5.5 million. I would say he’s overpaid by about a million. Maybe 1.5 at most. He’s a 7 million dollar player, no question.

 

[McSuper]

I'll never understand Leafs and Oilers fans mocking each other. It really is bizarre when there's nothing to brag about.

You are right there my friend . We have the 80s but we have been a mess since . Most times I don't even bother posting when people bash the Oilers . Lots of times I even stick up for the TML when people bash them . But sometimes you have to call someone out when their comments are so far out of touch . See RCS comments as an example

 

[McFlyingV]

Wrong. A few people expect that, not anyone in the know. We know he is on another level than Ehlers and pasta.We know hes gonna cost 8. We know Matthes is better than Eichel and on Connors tier. We just hope they understand they play for the Yankees and can make money elsewhere.

Drai owes 3 plus million To connor imo

Having said all that, Im gonna hop outta this thread and be back in the leafs forum...Duh Winning!!!!! AINEC

That must be a pretty wide ranged tier if a guy who has scored 72 more points over the last 2 seasons is on the same tier as Matthews. I guess they both play in the NHL so in that sense they are both professional hockey players.

 

[72hockey guy]

Draisaitl is worth a lot more than 5.5 million. I would say he’s overpaid by about a million. Maybe 1.5 at most. He’s a 7 million dollar player, no question.

my problem with that chaotic is that no one really knows,

the presence of McDavid obscures things

if McDavid wasnt there Draisaitl could well be worth more than 7M. everyone assumes he benefits from McDavid and he certainly may, but the opposite could easily be just as true. we'll never really know because he's never been faced with that responsibility and wont be until he's given it

 

[72hockey guy]

You are right there my friend . We have the 80s but we have been a mess since . Most times I don't even bother posting when people bash the Oilers . Lots of times I even stick up for the TML when people bash them . But sometimes you have to call someone out when their comments are so far out of touch . See RCS comments as an example

I agree, but I wouldnt worry mac, Ive always found you to be incredibly fair. I try to be myself but even my best I dont have your gift for diplomacy

must be my Brooklyn roots

you and Third man in, the predator fan, are the fairest posters I know. you must be twins

 

[McSuper]

LMAO. After being our best player on the Leafs for the second half of the season, Marner has 8 points in 6 games in the Boston series and has emerged as one of the best players on either team out there.

"Overrating".

Too funny.

But Draisaitl playoffs from last year don't count ?

 

[AvatarAang]

my problem with that chaotic is that no one really knows,

the presence of McDavid obscures things

if McDavid wasnt there Draisaitl could well be worth more than 7M. everyone assumes he benefits from McDavid and he certainly may, but the opposite could easily be just as true. we'll never really know because he's never been faced with that responsibility and wont be until he's given it

LOL he can't even center line 2 facing weaker opposition matchups how is he suppose to be their #1C

 

[Holymakinaw]

But Draisaitl playoffs from last year don't count ?

I'm not talking about Drasaitl. I was only talking about Marner and laughing at the notion that Leaf fans "overrate him".

 

[McFlyingV]

I'm not talking about Drasaitl. I was only talking about Marner and laughing at the notion that Leaf fans "overrate him".

Odd to be laughing at that notion given that a Leafs fan on the last page just got finished saying that Marner is basically as good as McDavid.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

LOL he can't even center line 2 facing weaker opposition matchups how is he suppose to be their #1C

... what?

 

[McSuper]

I agree, but I wouldnt worry mac, Ive always found you to be incredibly fair. I try to be myself but even my best I dont have your gift for diplomacy

must be my Brooklyn roots

you and Third man in, the predator fan, are the fairest posters I know. you must be twins

No worries . I have my days where diplomacy goes out the window . There are a lot of fair TML fans but for everyone of them there are 10 that seem to have no clue about hockey . Plus many people / Fan forget value is very subjective . For instance if I were starting a team from scratch I would take the big C in Draisaitl over Marner . If I was in the shoes of the TML I would keep Marner because of the up coming contracts of Matthews and company . Now if I am a bubble team I would be happy with either one .

 

[McSuper]

I'm not talking about Drasaitl. I was only talking about Marner and laughing at the notion that Leaf fans "overrate him".

The are overrating him if they say he better then Draisaitl . If it the more value angle you have a point base on contracts . But play on the ice Draisaitl is a better player

 

[72hockey guy]

LOL he can't even center line 2 facing weaker opposition matchups how is he suppose to be their #1C

see the thing is we dont know that. for arguments sake and let me be clear here im not wishing this on anyone, but for the purpose of discussion assume McDavid, missed next season completely, and Draisaitl was the undisputed #1, and put up 110 points, doesnt that raise his value especially given that he's locked up long term at 40% or thereabouts less than McDavid?

to me thats the unknown dynamic, some players need that responsibility to be their best, and we may never know if Draisaitl is that kind because McDavid is there. It changes the entire reality

 

[AvatarAang]

No worries . I have my days where diplomacy goes out the window . There are a lot of fair TML fans but for everyone of them there are 10 that seem to have no clue about hockey . Plus many people / Fan forget value is very subjective . For instance if I were starting a team from scratch I would take the big C in Draisaitl over Marner . If I was in the shoes of the TML I would keep Marner because of the up coming contracts of Matthews and company . Now if I am a bubble team I would be happy with either one .

You're right, I don't think Leaf fans would take Marner in that scenario either.

But Drai can't carry his own line so he needs the best NHL player in the world to be his center so he can put up points to justify that massive contract.

Drai as a C > Marner as a W > Drai as a W

And that's not even factoring Chiarelli being a terrible GM and overpaying Drai making him less valuable than he should be.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Odd to be laughing at that notion given that a Leafs fan on the last page just got finished saying that Marner is basically as good as McDavid.

Well there are always a few Nut-Balls in every fanbase. Obviously they don't speak for all of us.

 

[AvatarAang]

see the thing is we dont know that. for arguments sake and let me be clear here im not wishing this on anyone, but for the purpose of discussion assume McDavid, missed next season completely, and Draisaitl was the undisputed #1, and put up 110 points, doesnt that raise his value especially given that he's locked up long term at 40% or thereabouts less than McDavid?

to me thats the unknown dynamic, some players need that responsibility to be their best, and we may never know if Draisaitl is that kind because McDavid is there. It changes the entire reality

lol come on man what if Matthews missed the season and Marner put up 110 points too.

We can only judge based on the current situation, and the fact is Drai is glued to McDavid for a large portion of his shifts (someone dug up the data, it must have been at least 50%). He's an elite winger, nothing wrong with that.

But when you have one W making 8.5M and has the BEST PLAYER IN THE NHL as his center, and another player who will probably make ~6.5M tops playing with Kadri or Plekanec, and both wingers produce similarly, it's pretty clear who is more valuable.

Once Drai learns how to play C full time there's no doubt he's more valuable. But current day value Marner > Drai

And since Oiler fans will freak out when anything remotely negative is said about their team, I'll level it out by saying McDavid >>> Matthews.

 

[Holymakinaw]

The are overrating him if they say he better then Draisaitl . If it the more value angle you have a point base on contracts . But play on the ice Draisaitl is a better player

Drasaitl and Marner's "play on the ice" is pretty damned close. I'd give the slight edge to Drasaitl, but it's a LOT closer than you think.

 

[72hockey guy]

Well there are always a few Nut-Balls in every fanbase. Obviously they don't speak for all of us.

I hear ya and I agree, but then I look at your avatar and I say...wait a second...hahaha

 

[McNuge]

You're right, I don't think Leaf fans would take Marner in that scenario either.

But Drai can't carry his own line so he needs the best NHL player in the world to be his center so he can put up points to justify that massive contract.

Drai as a C > Marner as a W > Drai as a W

And that's not even factoring Chiarelli being a terrible GM and overpaying Drai making him less valuable than he should be.

You do realize that when Drai plays with McDavid Drai is the one who takes nearly all the draws and takes C responsibility initially? They rotate just like all good C/W duos. Just look at Coutts and Giroux for example. It depends on who is where in relativity to the puck.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

lol come on man what if Matthews missed the season and Marner put up 110 points too.

We can only judge based on the current situation, and the fact is Drai is glued to McDavid for a large portion of his shifts (someone dug up the data, it must have been at least 50%). He's an elite winger, nothing wrong with that.

But when you have one W making 8.5M and has the BEST PLAYER IN THE NHL as his center, and another player who will probably make ~6.5M tops playing with Kadri or Plekanec, and both wingers produce similarly, it's pretty clear who is more valuable.

Once Drai learns how to play C full time there's no doubt he's more valuable. But current day value Marner > Drai

And since Oiler fans will freak out when anything remotely negative is said about their team, I'll level it out by saying McDavid >>> Matthews.

Kadri or JVR >>> Lucic or Slepyshev, amigo. I said that pages ago. When Draisaitl isn’t playing with Connor, his linemates are garbage and actively hurt his numbers. The same isn’t true for Marner.

The zoom Drai gets with McDavid is leveled out by what he has to deal with when he plays with anyone else. There’s also the fact that Drai is the only player to date that actually improves Connor’s numbers.

 

[AvatarAang]

You do realize that when Drai plays with McDavid Drai is the one who takes nearly all the draws and takes C responsibility initially? They rotate just like all good C/W duos. Just look at Coutts and Giroux for example. It depends on who is where in relativity to the puck.

So he's a winger that can take faceoffs?