Draisaitl vs MacKinnon

[Muffin]

Such a lazy argument lol, that’s how you know someone is just grasping at straws when they throw out the classic “weak on D” statement with no evidence. Since Drai’s detractors liked to bring up his +/- so much last year it’s only fair that we bring it up this year. +20, second in the league. Not to mention the fact that he already has 21(!) more points than MacKinnon this year. Literally almost double the points lol but yes MacKinnon is better because reasons

What's the point of comparing points this season? Teams literally play in 4 different leagues. I'm sure it's just a coincidence 5 of the top 6 scorers are from the North and they all decided to have career years all at the same time. Draisaitl has 17 points against Ottawa

 

[4EDM14OIL93]

What's the point of comparing points this season? Teams literally play in 4 different leagues. I'm sure it's just a coincidence 5 of the top 6 scorers are from the North and they all decided to have career years all at the same time. Draisaitl has 17 points against Ottawa

Ok if you don’t want to compare points this season we will use last season then. 110 to 93. Only a 17 point difference!

Are you really shocked that McDavid and Draisaitl are leading the league? I mean, really? Btw this isn’t really career years for these two... just humming along as usual

Yeah he has dominated the Sens. What’s your point? You don’t see other players putting up those numbers against the Sens. Maybe he is putting up absurd numbers against them cause he is just extremely good?

 

[6ix]

The poll is correct. Just imagine Mackinnons stats playing on the same line as McDavid playing Ottawa 7 times

 

[Tobias Kahun]

What's the point of comparing points this season? Teams literally play in 4 different leagues. I'm sure it's just a coincidence 5 of the top 6 scorers are from the North and they all decided to have career years all at the same time. Draisaitl has 17 points against Ottawa

Draisaitl is scoring at a lower rate than last year.

Career year?

McDavid also had 51 points in 29 games last year.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Lmao! Draisaitl and McDavid don’t play D. Watch the series against the Hawks in Aug and you’ll see. Their own GM called them out. They will put up points, but they suck on D.

Last year isn't relevant to this year, you aren't really proving your point.

 

[ijuka]

Well, let's see where we're at now.

Draisaitl 44 points, MacKinnon 23 points.

Pretty good by MacKinnon, Draisaitl no longer is doubling his scoring.

 

[ijuka]

Lmao! Draisaitl and McDavid don’t play D. Watch the series against the Hawks in Aug and you’ll see. Their own GM called them out. They will put up points, but they suck on D.

Leon Draisaitl is +20. Best among forwards, Stone is second at +14.

 

[McFlash97]

Lmao! Draisaitl and McDavid don’t play D. Watch the series against the Hawks in Aug and you’ll see. Their own GM called them out. They will put up points, but they suck on D.

Its dumb takes of the week competition here at HF people. Hurry up get your dumb takes in !

 

[Kamus]

The poll is correct. Just imagine Mackinnons stats playing on the same line as McDavid playing Ottawa 7 times

Ahhh the imagination argument... what if Drai was born in Canada, gained 13 pounds of muscle, was born in February and ate tacos on Tuesday’s??? Would he be better then?

 

[Kamus]

Lmao! Draisaitl and McDavid don’t play D. Watch the series against the Hawks in Aug and you’ll see. Their own GM called them out. They will put up points, but they suck on D.

He was on for 2 goals against in a 4 game series where the team lost 3-1 and he was still a plus player

 

[Video Nasty]

Lmao! Draisaitl and McDavid don’t play D. Watch the series against the Hawks in Aug and you’ll see. Their own GM called them out. They will put up points, but they suck on D.

August?

The NHL managed to cobble together a season for 2021 and you haven’t been watching the games in January, February, and March?

 

[authentic]

What's the point of comparing points this season? Teams literally play in 4 different leagues. I'm sure it's just a coincidence 5 of the top 6 scorers are from the North and they all decided to have career years all at the same time. Draisaitl has 17 points against Ottawa

I'm pretty sure McDavid and Draisaitl had this many points or more after the same amount of games last season.

 

[Foppberg]

Well, let's see where we're at now.

Draisaitl 44 points, MacKinnon 23 points.

Pretty good by MacKinnon, Draisaitl no longer is doubling his scoring.

Draisaitl also has played 30 games, 9 more than MacKinnon. Adjusting for games played MacKinnon would be at a hypothetical 33 points in 30 games.

So yes, still quite a bit ahead. However MacKinnon has also been struggling with concussions this season and Draisaitl has been able to feast on teams like Vancouver and Ottawa, it's hardly as straight forward as you're presenting it.

 

[McFlyingV]

This is the 3rd straight season Draisaitl has out produced Mackinnon in terms of points, goals, points per game, and goals per game.

 

[Video Nasty]

This is the 3rd straight season Draisaitl has out produced Mackinnon in terms of points, goals, points per game, and goals per game.

Just imagine if MacKinnon matches even just one of Drai’s seasons from here on out. Total nightmare.

One thing is clear about these boards though. If they existed during Gretzky’s time with the Oilers or Lemieux pre-Cup, there would have just as much, if not more, sniveling, grumbling, and excuse making for why they were not really the talent they were.

I love Peter Stastny and always feel he’s criminally underrated, but he would be a prime candidate for having his tires pumped up unnecessarily back then like the work MacKinnon’s lackeys perform in present day.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Draisaitl also has played 30 games, 9 more than MacKinnon. Adjusting for games played MacKinnon would be at a hypothetical 33 points in 30 games.

So yes, still quite a bit ahead. However MacKinnon has also been struggling with concussions this season and Draisaitl has been able to feast on teams like Vancouver and Ottawa, it's hardly as straight forward as you're presenting it.

So even adjusting for games played Drai has 33% more points and way more goals.
To be honest it seems pretty straight forward to a fan of neither team.

 

[Regal]

Leon Draisaitl is +20. Best among forwards, Stone is second at +14.

Draisaitl is getting unsustainable goaltending behind him this year. His CA/60, SA/60 and xGA/60 5v5 are all in the bottom quarter of forwards with at least 300 min played.

Interestingly, while both have an inflated SV% behind them, MacKinnon actually has a better GF% this year despite struggling to score, and far better underlying metrics.

 

[La Bamba]

leon > nat

all i see here are excuses and special considerations for nat

 

[Regal]

leon > nat

all i see here are excuses and special considerations for nat

Oh HF, where points are the only way to judge a player and everything else is excuses.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Draisaitl is getting unsustainable goaltending behind him this year. His CA/60, SA/60 and xGA/60 5v5 are all in the bottom quarter of forwards with at least 300 min played.

Interestingly, while both have an inflated SV% behind them, MacKinnon actually has a better GF% this year despite struggling to score, and far better underlying metrics.

You think it's interesting that a guy who plays with his 2nd and 3rd best forwards on his line puts up better underlying metrics than the guy with Kahun and Yamamoto? I like Yams a lot but he's no Rantanen or Landeskog. Even Oiler fans will admit the Avalanche have the far superior team overall, hence why they win games without Mackinnon without an issue and continue to win even though he has 7 goals (3 of them empty netters).

 

[Oilers 322]

Draisaitl is getting unsustainable goaltending behind him this year. His CA/60, SA/60 and xGA/60 5v5 are all in the bottom quarter of forwards with at least 300 min played.

Interestingly, while both have an inflated SV% behind them, MacKinnon actually has a better GF% this year despite struggling to score, and far better underlying metrics.

I feel like advanced metrics need to be paired with offensive zone start % as well. If you’re starting in the offensive zone more often than the defensive zone, it’s easier to put up favourable stats. According to naturalstattrick, MacKinnon has a 91-32 ratio for offensive to defensive zone start. On the other hand, Drai has a 66-71 ratio at 5 on 5. That’s a huge difference, so straight up comparing possession stat is unfair because the two players are utilized differently by their respective coach. Barkov, a center that’s typically viewed by HF as a defensive player, has a 68-59 ratio. The numbers Drai has put up, given his usage, is pretty impressive and likely unsustainable, as shown by his PDO.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

This is the 3rd straight season Draisaitl has out produced Mackinnon in terms of points, goals, points per game, and goals per game.

3rd straight season he's out-rode-McDavid's-coattails you mean

 

[ManofSteel55]

The poll is correct. Just imagine Mackinnons stats playing on the same line as McDavid playing Ottawa 7 times

Just image Draisaitl's output playing with Rantanen instead of Kahun and Yamamoto.

 

[Adamantoise]

Oh HF, where points are the only way to judge a player and everything else is excuses.

This is a common narrative, but the deeper I dig the more I think Draisaitl is comftorably better than MacKinnon.

Draisaitl has MacKinnon beat in GAR and xGAR since 2018. Here are their RAPM charts in 2018-21.

Draisaitl has clearly MacKinnon beat in EVO and completely blows him away in PPO. I think the difference in their offensive games is bigger than the difference between their defensive games, neither of them offers much in that area.

It's a weird narrative that Draisaitl somehow is overrated by his point totals. Here are Malkins RAPM charts from his prime. Draisaitl's latest three years have arguably been better than any stretch of Malkins career and they are very comparable as talents, but Draisaitl seems to struggle to gain the kind of respect.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

This is a common narrative, but the deeper I dig the more I think Draisaitl is comftorably better than MacKinnon.

Draisaitl has MacKinnon beat in GAR and xGAR since 2018. Here are their RAPM charts in 2018-21.

View attachment 407739

Draisaitl has clearly MacKinnon beat in EVO and completely blows him away in PPO. I think the difference in their offensive games is bigger than the difference between their defensive games, neither of them offers much in that area.

It's a weird narrative that Draisaitl somehow is overrated by his point totals. Here are Malkins RAPM charts from his prime. Draisaitl's latest three years have arguably been better than any stretch of Malkins career and they are very comparable as talents, but Draisaitl seems to struggle to gain the kind of respect.

It took years for Malkin to get the recognition he deserved as well but it came with time. I think there's a level of natural pushback for non-Oiler/Penguin fans to admit that 1 team doesn't just have the best player in the league they also have the 2nd/3rd best too. But eventually they watch them torch the league enough to concede that Draisaitl/Malkin are right there with their McDavid/Crosby counterpart in terms of talent.


It's a hard spot as a fan of both Colorado and Edmonton. The numbers and individual accolades definitely favor Draisaitl, but playoff production favors Mackinnon (though Draisaitl is no slouch in that department either).

Its been nice to see that many fans have come to see Draisaitl for the MVP talent he is. He's shedding the "product of McDavid" and "bad defensively" labels he was given. Going back 3 years now he has absolutely shredded the league like no other, in that time (183 game sample size?!?!) he is: 1st in goals, 2nd in assists, 2nd in points, 2nd in even strength points, 1st in power play goals, 2nd in power play points, 1st in game winning goals, and 1st amongst forwards in average ice time. That's an unbelievably impressive stat line- even more than McDavid or Mackinnon.