Draft Thread Part 2: Bark to the Future

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maplepred

Go Preds Go!!
Aug 14, 2011
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My question again,
How can barkov status go from consensus fourth ALL SEASON when he was playing hockey and then he gets hurt and doesn't play a single game after injury and moves into top two-ish?!?!

Meanwhile (as I said before), drouin and Mack kill it big time in chl playoffs and drouin gets MVP of chl and jones leafs his team to the memorial cup as well as the before mentioned two.

What gives?!?!

Colorado is only team saying they want barkov so badly. Not Florida or Tampa
 

Christian Litscher

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May 24, 2010
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If Barkov is the Avs guy like some are speculating, would a trade like this work?

#1+Stastny for #4+Josi

MacKinnon-Weber-Rinne would be as good as it gets.
 

Nothing Is New

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Sep 26, 2011
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My question again,
How can barkov status go from consensus fourth ALL SEASON when he was playing hockey and then he gets hurt and doesn't play a single game after injury and moves into top two-ish?!?!

Meanwhile (as I said before), drouin and Mack kill it big time in chl playoffs and drouin gets MVP of chl and jones leafs his team to the memorial cup as well as the before mentioned two.

What gives?!?!

Colorado is only team saying they want barkov so badly. Not Florida or Tampa

He may have been a consensus four on HF and with a lot of draft guides but that does not have much to do with how Colorado or any individual team views him.
 

maplepred

Go Preds Go!!
Aug 14, 2011
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Fair enough, thanks.


Also just wanted to say,

In fifteen drafts we have never drafted in the top five before this season except for our first ever draft which doesn't really count because that draft was based on our team being expansion, not having a crappy season.

As much as poile drives us nuts sometimes, gotta hand it to the man, we have only been bottom five team once ever, pretty damn impressive.


Now go and get Mack or barks to celebrate DP!!! Lol
 

Predsrule

Registered User
Nov 18, 2008
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My question again,
How can barkov status go from consensus fourth ALL SEASON when he was playing hockey and then he gets hurt and doesn't play a single game after injury and moves into top two-ish?!?!

Meanwhile (as I said before), drouin and Mack kill it big time in chl playoffs and drouin gets MVP of chl and jones leafs his team to the memorial cup as well as the before mentioned two.

What gives?!?!

Colorado is only team saying they want barkov so badly. Not Florida or Tampa

Teams got a chance to interview the players and get to know them better. Also barkov was talked about as a possible 1st pick over all as far back as last year... So it's not really new. Tampa has also brought him in a couple of times to interview.
 

predfan24

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Jul 12, 2006
5,105
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If Jones really did slip to us I wouldn't mind taking him but I also wouldn't mind if they gauged Calgary's interest and see if a deal could be made there to swap #4 for #6 and one other one of Calgary's first rounders. Then take either Lindholm or Nischuskin at 6.
 

StarvinArvyn33

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Jun 18, 2010
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Id think the rising of Barkov just shows how little we actually know how GMs rate prospects for the draft, specially in a deep draft year like this one.
 

Hagged

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Jul 6, 2009
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My question again,
How can barkov status go from consensus fourth ALL SEASON when he was playing hockey and then he gets hurt and doesn't play a single game after injury and moves into top two-ish?!?!

I guess the answer is that the year is different than 2005. Crosby couldn't have been surpassed by Ryan nor Pouliot even in speculation. You know the funny part of 2005. The top three propably should have contained this one Slovenian guy named Kopitar, but since he was playing in Europe against pro's, it was harder to put his stats into perspective with the north american ones. But Kopitar was the first European taken, the best one from europe. In 2006 the best European was Nicklas Backstrom, who in hindsight wouldn't even have been a bad pick at #1. The thing with these guys is that Barkov has been considerably more impressive. So now try to somehow put that in perspective with the North American ones. I'd say it is close to impossible.

What I liked about Craig Button's lists on TSN, was that he always said something like "But come the draft day, any of these guys could go number one". He wasn't saying his list is how it will go. It was just how he think it could go, and when these guys were too close to tell, he told he wasn't sure about the order. He just had to make a guess. Button is propably the only North American media person who has said he wouldn't be surprised to see Barkov going #1. But TSN polled the scouts and McKenzie said one of the scouts had Barkov above both Mackinnon and Drouin. So it has been said months ago already that there are guys who rank it this way. What that propably means is that they are very close, or "in the same tier" so it is possible to have differing opinions of the subject. Now, why was Barkov "consensus" #4 on all the lists. It might be, that when prospects are in the same tier it is hard to tell them apart, people like to try to rank them anyway. It becomes an argument of ignorance, people in the end are ready to shout out red faced their truth to those that disagree. Then again it might be that when there is one list that had these prospects in this order, "maybe I can use their educated opinion as mine since I really can't tell who is better than who, I haven't seen all of their games to compare them.". This leads to a group think where all the obvious ones are ranked "independently", and all the hard parts of the draft are in the same order since it only needs the first ranking for the other rankings to lean on it.

But in the end, my guess is that Barkov, on average, is ranked fourth among the head scouts as McKenzies draft ranking was based on a poll. That doesn't still mean that Barkov is a Benoit Pouliot, and Mackinnon is a Sidney Crosby. Mackinnon and Barkov are much closer than people here on these boards want to think. "AINEC!" :sarcasm:
 

maplepred

Go Preds Go!!
Aug 14, 2011
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I guess the answer is that the year is different than 2005. Crosby couldn't have been surpassed by Ryan nor Pouliot even in speculation. You know the funny part of 2005. The top three propably should have contained this one Slovenian guy named Kopitar, but since he was playing in Europe against pro's, it was harder to put his stats into perspective with the north american ones. But Kopitar was the first European taken, the best one from europe. In 2006 the best European was Nicklas Backstrom, who in hindsight wouldn't even have been a bad pick at #1. The thing with these guys is that Barkov has been considerably more impressive. So now try to somehow put that in perspective with the North American ones. I'd say it is close to impossible.

What I liked about Craig Button's lists on TSN, was that he always said something like "But come the draft day, any of these guys could go number one". He wasn't saying his list is how it will go. It was just how he think it could go, and when these guys were too close to tell, he told he wasn't sure about the order. He just had to make a guess. Button is propably the only North American media person who has said he wouldn't be surprised to see Barkov going #1. But TSN polled the scouts and McKenzie said one of the scouts had Barkov above both Mackinnon and Drouin. So it has been said months ago already that there are guys who rank it this way. What that propably means is that they are very close, or "in the same tier" so it is possible to have differing opinions of the subject. Now, why was Barkov "consensus" #4 on all the lists. It might be, that when prospects are in the same tier it is hard to tell them apart, people like to try to rank them anyway. It becomes an argument of ignorance, people in the end are ready to shout out red faced their truth to those that disagree. Then again it might be that when there is one list that had these prospects in this order, "maybe I can use their educated opinion as mine since I really can't tell who is better than who, I haven't seen all of their games to compare them.". This leads to a group think where all the obvious ones are ranked "independently", and all the hard parts of the draft are in the same order since it only needs the first ranking for the other rankings to lean on it.

But in the end, my guess is that Barkov, on average, is ranked fourth among the head scouts as McKenzies draft ranking was based on a poll. That doesn't still mean that Barkov is a Benoit Pouliot, and Mackinnon is a Sidney Crosby. Mackinnon and Barkov are much closer than people here on these boards want to think. "AINEC!" :sarcasm:

Very well put henkine, thank you for the feedback!

I just really hope we come out with Mack or bark. The big centre is what we want. In fact I almost prefer barkov to Mack, I feel he has a more complete game and is such a monster!

Ten more days!!!


As I said above, it's pretty impressive we have only ever finished this one time ever in our existence in the bottom five to get a top five pick, but man, is this ever exciting!!

Not saying I want it to become a regular thing by any means, but it's pretty damn cool for it to happen this time, and in such a bomb draft!!
 

PredsV82

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Heinke alluded to it but I suspect part of the rason barkov was "stuck" at 4 was a natural bias toward north american prospects. I dont mean bias in a malicious way, just that there is more coverage of north american prospects here so the default position when prospects are close is to favor the NA over the euro.

But now that the draft is close and everyone is focused on all of the prospects equally, a superstar euro may rise a bit. Plus it really sounds like Barkov interviewed well and when the top 4 are all that close as far as talent that can make a difference

and then lastly another thing that would make him "rise" is Colorado's apparent interest in him... people hear that and assume that the Avs believe hime to be the "best" prospect when in fact it may be that he isnt the "best player available" he nonetheless is the "best player for colorado" so he may bet taken #1
 

glenngineer

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Jan 27, 2010
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bulllcrap. lots of players take 3 to 4 years to develop. And tell me the centers we have drafted that should have developed better than they did? Legwand and Wilson are the only two centers we have drafted in the first round.. to say Trotz should have made a star out of Arkhipov or some other lower round schlub is a bit of a reach.

15 years of forwards and who did he develop into a star? Rads was the closest but other than that, did any of our forwards ever sniff an all star game or get recognition for being that player? Track record says it all. He's a very good coach but can't develop forwards to the next level and he can't take the team to the next level because of that. The two are interrelated.
 

hockey diva

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May 17, 2010
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Some lower round "sclubs" have developed into stars, just not for us. Zetterburg and Datsyuk for example. Trotz needed to go after our loss to Phoenix.
 

CroKaas

Registered User
Jan 17, 2012
39
6
Munich
NSH: 4th + SK + Ellis/Blum
COL: 1st + Stastny

With 1st Pick: Drouin

Wilson (PFW) Stastny (PLY) Drouin (SNP) = 1st Line

What do You guys think about this? Greetings from Germany ;)
 

maplepred

Go Preds Go!!
Aug 14, 2011
3,486
758
NSH: 4th + SK + Ellis/Blum
COL: 1st + Stastny

With 1st Pick: Drouin

Wilson (PFW) Stastny (PLY) Drouin (SNP) = 1st Line

What do You guys think about this? Greetings from Germany ;)

If we get first pick its Mack brother. I like the deal itself but don't think avs would.
 
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