Draft Thread Part 2: Bark to the Future

[PredsV82]

Jones falling to us is (amazingly) a bit of a doomsday scenario, but even if the Avs opt against him, it's for me to imagine Jones falling past Florida and (especially) Tampa, but at the same time, I have heard scouts rate 4 different people #1. That's the first time I've ever heard of that.

Still, Jones is #1 on most lists, and you have to figure he'll go to a team like Tampa, who needs him in a bad way.

What would you all think about #4 straight up for Yakupov, if Jones is who is left?

no. Yak is only one year removed from the #1 overall pick. If the Oil already want to move him something is wrong. I'd rather take my chances with Nichuskin or Drouin

 

[Top 6 Spaling]

no. Yak is only one year removed from the #1 overall pick. If the Oil already want to move him something is wrong. I'd rather take my chances with Nichuskin or Drouin

It's not that they "want" to move him, it's that they have Hall and Eberle as their wingers and Smid, Petry, and Klefbom at D.

 

[Predsrule]

People really think smith and Blum are going to be enough to move up to number 1? Blum is worth around a 3rd and smith around the same If we are lucky.. It's goin to take Sotho we don't want to give up (beck ext) to do it and if we feel barkov is one by. Number 4 we should trade up and might as well go after the best and go to number 1

 

[Preddownsouth]

People really think smith and Blum are going to be enough to move up to number 1? Blum is worth around a 3rd and smith around the same If we are lucky.. It's goin to take Sotho we don't want to give up (beck ext) to do it and if we feel barkov is one by. Number 4 we should trade up and might as well go after the best and go to number 1

Ellis, Smith, 2014 1st rounder enough?

 

[Predsrule]

Ellis, Smith, 2014 1st rounder enough?

That would prob do it though I'd rather deal beck over the 1st. Karma hates me..

 

[Preddownsouth]

That would prob do it though I'd rather deal beck over the 1st. Karma hates me..

Ugh I left out that I also meant that we were swapping to where COL took the 4 spot. I would do it - I think Mac is going to be a special player in this league.

I can see Beck easily going - but I'm selfish as a fan I want to see Beck stay here.

Going to be an interesting draft to watch how it plays out.

 

[Soundgarden]

Ugh I left out that I also meant that we were swapping to where COL took the 4 spot. I would do it - I think Mac is going to be a special player in this league.

I can see Beck easily going - but I'm selfish as a fan I want to see Beck stay here.

Going to be an interesting draft to watch how it plays out.

I like Beck, but if it means getting our choice of Barkov/Mack then it's a no brainer. We've had players like Beck before, and we'll have a lot more. We've never really had an opportunity to draft an elite center.

 

[PredsV82]

That would prob do it though I'd rather deal beck over the 1st. Karma hates me..

I would do two players (Smith or Beck, Ellis or Blum) and #4. Not gonna trade our 1st next year just in case we suck again. Otherwise it isnt worth it because we will still get a stud at 4

 

[glenngineer]

why must it be one or the other?

if the center we draft is talented enough, they should be able to play their offensive game while learning to be defensively responsible at the same time.

guys, the problem isnt Trotz... its the players... asking a pleyer, especially a center, to play within the system and be defensively responsible shouldnt put the kibosh on a good players offensive skill, and isnt an unreasonable thing to expect.

If a player is only able to score by cherry picking and cant score within Trotz's structured system, then we need better players, not a coach who doesnt demand that a hockey player, God forbid, actually play some hockey and not just shinny

Or maybe the coach isn't able to develop talent. You mean to tell me in 15 years it's all on the players and not one bit Trotz? You mean to tell me Poile hasn't given him one cente in all this time that can do both? It shouldn't be taking this long to have Wilson develop into that player.

 

[Gnashville]

IMO when it comes to drafting 18 year olds you take BPA especially that high in the draft. If Jones is there at 4 you take him unless you have Nischuskin rated as high as Jones. Though this is a theoretical I still see it highly unlikely Jones falls to us giving a chance at one of the big 3 forwards.

There is no way Poile takes any risk and drafts Nichushkin aka Radulov 2.0 over Jones.

 

[predfan24]

To me Nischuskin looks a lot like Nash. If I was Poile I'd take him in a heartbeat if I was certain he wasn't a flight risk.


Disclaimer: I've only read scouting reports and seen highlight videos of most these guys. I've seen Jones,Mack and Drouin play a little bit at World Juniors but I am in no way an expert.

 

[PredsV82]

Or maybe the coach isn't able to develop talent. You mean to tell me in 15 years it's all on the players and not one bit Trotz? You mean to tell me Poile hasn't given him one cente in all this time that can do both? It shouldn't be taking this long to have Wilson develop into that player.

bulllcrap. lots of players take 3 to 4 years to develop. And tell me the centers we have drafted that should have developed better than they did? Legwand and Wilson are the only two centers we have drafted in the first round.. to say Trotz should have made a star out of Arkhipov or some other lower round schlub is a bit of a reach.

 

[Predsrule]

I would do two players (Smith or Beck, Ellis or Blum) and #4. Not gonna trade our 1st next year just in case we suck again. Otherwise it isnt worth it because we will still get a stud at 4

This is what u said as well as well I think it fits both teams needs and works well

 

[Predsrule]

bulllcrap. lots of players take 3 to 4 years to develop. And tell me the centers we have drafted that should have developed better than they did? Legwand and Wilson are the only two centers we have drafted in the first round.. to say Trotz should have made a star out of Arkhipov or some other lower round schlub is a bit of a reach.

Watson?

 

[Gnashville]

To me Nischuskin looks a lot like Nash. If I was Poile I'd take him in a heartbeat if I was certain he wasn't a flight risk.


Disclaimer: I've only read scouting reports and seen highlight videos of most these guys. I've seen Jones,Mack and Drouin play a little bit at World Juniors but I am in no way an expert.

He is a flight risk, also has holes in his defensive game, seems to have a prima-donna attitude and is another Radulov in waiting.

 

[predfan24]

He is a flight risk, also has holes in his defensive game, seems to have a prima-donna attitude and is another Radulov in waiting.

Evidence? Holes in his defensive game doesn't worry me.Defense is effort and academics. Both can be taught. He's an 18 year old winger that's not a big deal.


The biggest worry would be he might be too one dimensional even if that dimension is very dynamic.

 

[Hagged]

I'm going to disagree a little. I think we need a franchise forward, and while I'd prefer a center, a franchise winger would be just fine with me. If we walk away with Drouin, I'm very happy. If we walk away with none of Drouin, Mac, or Barkov...eesh.

The last sentence is something that Sakic just said in an interview how they think about the draft in Colorado. And they are the ones who need a franchise defenseman. But they think that Barkov/Drouin/Mackinnon are too good to pass up for need.

It seems there is a possibility for Nashville to be choosing between Jones/Nichuskin/Lindholm, every one of them are top 5 in a normal draft but I'm starting to think that Colorado won't move out from the top 3 unless they know the team they are trading with are taking Jones.

Then again, might be Colorado will just draft Barkov with the #1 pick. Oh the generational **** storm on those boards.

 

[maplepred]

1. If we did get jones he will just get traded when he wants big money anyways because why deal weber who is on 14 year deal already paid out bonuses and doesn't have a no trade clause. Plus we have josi who is a monster locked up long term to. Why draft a guy to just trade eventually?!

And secondly,
How had barkov jumped up rankings all of a sudden?!?! He hasn't even played a game since he was rated fourth overall. And in meantime drouin got chl player of the year, Mack destroyed in memorial cup as well. And jones lead his team to memorial cup as well.

I think avs are just blowing smoke.

And as far as trading up, I would not trade much, Maybe if we were moving from tenth or worse to first year, but fourth in a sick draft, wouldn't give up much and that's why Colorado is blowing smoke.

Jones is from Colorado and will be an av.

 

[Gnashville]

Evidence? Holes in his defensive game doesn't worry me.Defense is effort and academics. Both can be taught. He's an 18 year old winger that's not a big deal.


The biggest worry would be he might be too one dimensional even if that dimension is very dynamic.

His refusal to play in the AHL or CHL. How much effort is he going to put into his defensive game? That is the big question if he does not then he becomes a perfect Trotz doghouse player. FYI One scout basically said he does not give total effort

"When Nichushkin is at his best, he's by far better than Barkov, but he's not always at his best," NHL Director of European Scouting Goran Stubb told NHL.com.

In terms of weaknesses, Nichushkin reportedly has question marks in both his consistency and his durability. Future Considerations and McKeen’s Hockey both also mention that Nichushkin has a reputation as puckhog. As McKeen’s puts it, he “gets self-centered and impetuous – tries to do it all himself – and either ignores or doesn’t see passing options.” The consistency question can be tied to questions about his overall effort level – while none of the scouting services will outright declare Nichushkin “lazy”, there are questions about his level of “inspiration”.

I'm sorry under Trotz he gets benched after 5 games for not playing defense, and runs back to Russia and never plays in North America again. Or he watches 60 games from the press box then goes back to Russia.

 

[StarvinArvyn33]

1. If we did get jones he will just get traded when he wants big money anyways because why deal weber who is on 14 year deal already paid out bonuses and doesn't have a no trade clause. Plus we have josi who is a monster locked up long term to. Why draft a guy to just trade eventually?!

And secondly,
How had barkov jumped up rankings all of a sudden?!?! He hasn't even played a game since he was rated fourth overall. And in meantime drouin got chl player of the year, Mack destroyed in memorial cup as well. And jones lead his team to memorial cup as well.

I think avs are just blowing smoke.

And as far as trading up, I would not trade much, Maybe if we were moving from tenth or worse to first year, but fourth in a sick draft, wouldn't give up much and that's why Colorado is blowing smoke.

Jones is from Colorado and will be an av.

BINGO


everyone knows they need Jones. BUT they are looking to trade it, and the value of their pick deflates as soon as the word is out on who they will pick (ie, see poiles back stepping when he said we'd take a forward this year, he retracted those statements later) I agree that this is all mind games from Avs new management.

 

[StarvinArvyn33]

Or maybe the coach isn't able to develop talent. You mean to tell me in 15 years it's all on the players and not one bit Trotz? You mean to tell me Poile hasn't given him one cente in all this time that can do both? It shouldn't be taking this long to have Wilson develop into that player.

you dont like trotz, we get it.


If we were to interview Wilson, or any other pred draftee or player for that matter, none could legitimately say "Trotz held me back thats why my career went south...." A player is responsible for their play, regardless of the coach behind the bench. It is much more black and white then your are making it to be.

 

[Top 6 Spaling]

BINGO


everyone knows they need Jones. BUT they are looking to trade it, and the value of their pick deflates as soon as the word is out on who they will pick (ie, see poiles back stepping when he said we'd take a forward this year, he retracted those statements later) I agree that this is all mind games from Avs new management.

I don't know...this isn't some blogger speculation, Joe Sakic flat out said to the local paper "We are not taking Seth Jones 1st overall". It'd be bizarre for him to go back on that.

I truly think they are shopping that pick hard, but won't move back past 4. I do think they want Jones, but I think they believe they can trade back and still snag him.

 

[StarvinArvyn33]

I don't know...this isn't some blogger speculation, Joe Sakic flat out said to the local paper "We are not taking Seth Jones 1st overall". It'd be bizarre for him to go back on that.

I truly think they are shopping that pick hard, but won't move back past 4. I do think they want Jones, but I think they believe they can trade back and still snag him.

Ahhh I missed that article. But I remember the way Roy said something like (rough draft version), "they were looking to trade it, but if we do keep it we wouldnt 100% take Jones". It just seemed too played out. Im just gonna wait and see though and hope that we come out with Barkov or Drouin.

 

[BigFatCat999]

Let me say this, if and I say this with a gigantic IF, Jones were to fall to Nashville, you pick him unless some lets say Buffalo comes in with an insane deal. Then Poile calls the Everyone and says 'Blum and Ellis for?'

Fact is this, Poile would have to **** up in a generational level way to **** this up. I mean a Mike Milbury on LSD AND meth level **** up.

 

[StarvinArvyn33]

Let me say this, if and I say this with a gigantic IF, Jones were to fall to Nashville, you pick him unless some lets say Buffalo comes in with an insane deal. Then Poile calls the Everyone and says 'Blum and Ellis for?'

Fact is this, Poile would have to **** up in a generational level way to **** this up. I mean a Mike Milbury on LSD AND meth level **** up.

the vision I got from that was worth a 1000 words