Draft and UDFA Thread 2017-18

[GregSirico]

i'd absolutely be willing to take on a bad contract to increase the return but it really depends on the rest of the deal. are we talking about taking on the contract and giving up additional 2nd round picks to jump from 11 to 5? or are we talking about taking on the contract to swap 1st straight up? to jump from 25ish to 5?

Probably something like we take on the bad contract and give them one of our late firsts. So they still get a first rounder in a deep draft + get salary relief on a horrendous contract.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I disagree. Think this draft is too hyped up for better or worse. Gonna cost more this year than most others. Hope somehow you’re right though.

2003 is considered one of the greatest 1st rounds of all time. Check the cost to move up. There were no additional 1st round picks added to any deal. You can make whatever assumption you choose. History has shown what the cost to move up is. People make a lot of assumptions on value. Nash is not worth a 1st; McDonagh needs to bring back Sergachev. And yet, on most occasions, the value mirrors past trades.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

But Laine is the difference maker. That's my point. All those pieces are good, but w/o Laine they are prob at best like us fighting for a spot or middle of the pack. Being that high in the draft and knocking it out of the park turns and avg team into a contender. ie: Toronto (w/ Matthews), TB (w/ Stamkos), Winnipeg.

Yeah, but Winnipeg wasn't a bottom 5 team the year they got Laine.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

2003 is considered one of the greatest 1st rounds of all time. Check the cost to move up. There were no additional 1st round picks added to any deal. You can make whatever assumption you choose. History has shown what the cost to move up is. People make a lot of assumptions on value. Nash is not worth a 1st; McDonagh needs to bring back Sergachev. And yet, on most occasions, the value mirrors past trades.

Do you have a list of teams trading up in the draft? You mentioned several instances, but I am too lazy to look it up and make my own list, assuming you already have that info haha

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Yeah, but Winnipeg wasn't a bottom 5 team the year they got Laine.

Bottom-6 team

 

[GregSirico]

Yeah, but Winnipeg wasn't a bottom 5 team the year they got Laine.

Fair point. I guess my overall theme is that if you draft at the top of the first round you increase your chances of finding young elite talent more so than later in the round (and that 's not saying there aren't NHLers later first - of course there are) but more times than not the guys picked early have higher floors and higher ceilings.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Sample size is an issue but Dominik Bokk is pretty amazing, if his on ice SH% wasn't 1.45 (!) he'd be a lock for the top 15, maybe top 10.

Some other cool stats for Bokk, he's a positive relative CF% player on the best team in the league, his CA/60 is sky high (over 60) and his relative CA/60 is at over 7 with his SOG/60 at over 6... He's a shot generator, that's what he does and that's something we need.

 

[wafflepadsave]

2003 is considered one of the greatest 1st rounds of all time. Check the cost to move up. There were no additional 1st round picks added to any deal. You can make whatever assumption you choose. History has shown what the cost to move up is. People make a lot of assumptions on value. Nash is not worth a 1st; McDonagh needs to bring back Sergachev. And yet, on most occasions, the value mirrors past trades.

We will see cus I think gorton tries to move up this draft.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I am rooting for an upset. Boston out in the 1st round gives us the 16th oa!

No it doesn’t.

 

[wafflepadsave]

No it doesn’t.

Sounds like it could be something around 23rd which is still better than 29!

 

[Ghost of jas]

Do you have a list of teams trading up in the draft? You mentioned several instances, but I am too lazy to look it up and make my own list, assuming you already have that info haha

I just listed a few off the top of my head.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

2003 is considered one of the greatest 1st rounds of all time. Check the cost to move up. There were no additional 1st round picks added to any deal. You can make whatever assumption you choose. History has shown what the cost to move up is. People make a lot of assumptions on value. Nash is not worth a 1st; McDonagh needs to bring back Sergachev. And yet, on most occasions, the value mirrors past trades.

Good point.

And furthermore, I'm really not eager to give up 1sts in a draft this stacked just to change a few slots. Even to include a 2nd, I'd need to be 100% convinced I was moving from one tier to another.

If anything, the rumored depth of the pool this year should bring prices down.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Sounds like it could be something around 23rd which is still better than 29!

I know these mocks have to list the draft order before the playoffs sort things out, but the Boston and TB #1 will not both be in the bottom four.

 

[Machinehead]

I know these mocks have to list the draft order before the playoffs sort things out, but the Boston and TB #1 will not both be in the bottom four.

Right, because they have to play each other in the second round.

 

[Ghost of jas]

We will see cus I think gorton tries to move up this draft.

I think he will, also. I think he gets another 1st in a deal for Zuccarello, then uses the lower of the BOS/TB to move up.

 

[NYRFAN218]

Here's a list in recent years as per CapFriendly.

2016: NJD trades #11 to OTT for #12 and #80 (3rd round)
2012: BUF trades #21 and #42 (2nd round) to CGY for #14
2009: NYI trades #16, #77 (3rd round) and #182 (7th round) to MIN for #12
2008: NYI trades #5 to TOR for #7, #68 (3rd round), and #37 in 2009 (2nd round); NYI trades #7 to NSH for #9 and #40 (2nd round)
2007: STL trades #9 to SJS for #13, #44 (2nd round), and #87 in 2008 (3rd round)
2005: ATL trades #8 to SJS for #12, #49 (2nd round), and #207 (7th round); ATL trades #12 to NYR for #16, and #41 (2nd rounder)

Those are the examples post cap world of trades within the top 15 strictly involving draft picks. Not something that's really happened as much recently.

NHL Entry Draft Picks - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Since 2010, 5 top 10 picks have been moved, all of them for NHL roster players (Kessel x2, Carter, J.Staal, Stepan.) The Stepan, Carter and Staal trades took place on or right before draft day. Kessel trade turned out worse than anyone expected for Toronto.


If memory serves me correct, I don't think anyone has traded up into the top 10 using just picks. There has been activity just outside of the top 10 (Ottawa traded a 3rd to NJ to move up from 11 to 12 to secure Logan Brown a few years ago) but thats all I can remember.

As an aside, Jeff Gorton offered Boston's pick which was Kessel+their 2nd round pick to Washington in an attempt to secure Backstrom. Washington turned it down and that would have been a trade to move up just 1 spot.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Here's a list in recent years as per CapFriendly.

2016: NJD trades #11 to OTT for #12 and #80 (3rd round)
2012: BUF trades #21 and #42 (2nd round) to CGY for #14
2009: NYI trades #16, #77 (3rd round) and #182 (7th round) to MIN for #12
2008: NYI trades #5 to TOR for #7, #68 (3rd round), and #37 in 2009 (2nd round); NYI trades #7 to NSH for #9 and #40 (2nd round)
2007: STL trades #9 to SJS for #13, #44 (2nd round), and #87 in 2008 (3rd round)
2005: ATL trades #8 to SJS for #12, #49 (2nd round), and #207 (7th round); ATL trades #12 to NYR for #16, and #41 (2nd rounder)

Those are the examples post cap world of trades within the top 15 strictly involving draft picks. Not something that's really happened as much recently.

NHL Entry Draft Picks - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Not one additional 1st on that list. Thank you.

 

[kovazub94]

D'oh.

Yeah, wouldn't mind taking him either...

Wonder if people have the NYR strategy wrong. Maybe it's let the chips fall where they may on the position of the team's own 1st rounder and use the extra 2nds/3rds to improve upon the Boston and TBL picks, moving them from the high 20s into the teens with a view towards getting three of the non-top-5 that you really like, as opposed to just one of the top-5...

Good strategy and definitely more realistic than obtaining top5 musings.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Well, there’s this narrative out there that the Rangers prefer character to skill.

While I don’t agree with the narrative that they are passing on top end skill, the character component is def. true.

The Rangers have made a concerted effort to focus on young guys who want to compete. And you’re seeing some of that now.

We discussed this after the Rangers got eliminated against TB. You thought they needed to make the team not so chummy. Maybe some new younger voices needed to emerge, and by moving out Stepan, Girardi, Nash and McDonagh, it opened up space for Kreider, Hayes, Zibanejad and Fast to start leading.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Here's a list in recent years as per CapFriendly.

2016: NJD trades #11 to OTT for #12 and #80 (3rd round)
2012: BUF trades #21 and #42 (2nd round) to CGY for #14
2009: NYI trades #16, #77 (3rd round) and #182 (7th round) to MIN for #12
2008: NYI trades #5 to TOR for #7, #68 (3rd round), and #37 in 2009 (2nd round); NYI trades #7 to NSH for #9 and #40 (2nd round)
2007: STL trades #9 to SJS for #13, #44 (2nd round), and #87 in 2008 (3rd round)
2005: ATL trades #8 to SJS for #12, #49 (2nd round), and #207 (7th round); ATL trades #12 to NYR for #16, and #41 (2nd rounder)

Those are the examples post cap world of trades within the top 15 strictly involving draft picks. Not something that's really happened as much recently.

NHL Entry Draft Picks - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thanks! If we project our pick being 11th OA, and we want to trade up, this should be the realistic price (with a possible 7th rounder here and there):

10: our 3rd rounder
8 or 9: NJ 2nd rounder
7: our 2nd rounder

Anything higher will probably involve one of our late 1st rounders then.

 

[RangerBlues]

The dropoff is around 12. 2 picks in the top 12 can be had.

 

[GregSirico]

The dropoff is around 12. 2 picks in the top 12 can be had.

What? How?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

What? How?

Trade Zucc for a mid 1st.

Attach pick(s) to that pick and hope a team bites.

 

[GregSirico]

Trade Zucc for a mid 1st.

Attach pick(s) to that pick and hope a team bites.

hmmmm ..... that is enticing.