Let's just say that your point of view is not shared by a single person that is involved with the San Jose Sharks because every single person like Hasso, DW, and TMac have made statements in some form or fashion saying that it's a business
Everybody is going to say its a business. But you know what isn't? The very act of hockey itself. Are you seriously still not getting this?
Here, let me go ahead and paint the picture for you.
Let's say the NHL wanted to expand to lets say...Washington state. I, some billionaire with so much money goes, "Hey, NHL, I'll front every penny and even build the arena out of my own pocket. I want a winning team."
The NHL approves me, and it this point in time is where I decide. Does the fact that people come watch my team to win the cup actually matter to me? Or does my entire operation run on the premise that I need incredible hockey minds and incredible hockey players to perform to win the cup? Sure, it'd be nice to have both, but who is actually the boss, here? The people who sit there to be entertained or me and my vision of the team winning the cup? The point is, I answer to no one. Hell, if I don't want to sell beer in my arena during the hockey game, thats up to me, too.
What I am getting at here if you don't still quite understand is that building and having a winning team is not a business in and of itself. It just so happens that I am required to offer to sell you tickets to come see my team since the entire league wants to make money. It just so happens that any profitability that can help me recuperate my out of pocket costs is better for me and the league. I am however, not in any way obligated to please anyone other then the NHL standards and myself.
...in TMac's case, he has specifically referred to it as a results-oriented business. So if you can't even agree with a very basic premise that the entire organization goes off of, there isn't much to do here with you. You're beyond hope.
Hey, heres what TMac's case actually is. He, himself, is in the business of results. That doesn't mean it aligns with my vision in my fictional team I made up. If he doesn't deliver in his promises, then I should and could very well be pretty pissed off that he doesn't deliver me a team that wins the cup. That depends on entirely how reasonable am would be as a fictional owner of a team, right?
I can't expect a great coach to get results from players who aren't good enough to take on other teams top players.
Its the other way around, too. I can't expect great players to win the cup if the coach has a **** gameplan that isn't going to win the game.
There is some accountability on the GM as well. I can't expect my team to be successful if the GM insists that drafting Dylan Strome is a better 1st overall pick then Connor McDavid. I can't expect my team to be successful if he sells my star players for a bag of pucks, and then turns around and buys rental players for my teams next 10 years of 1sts.
You conveniently ignore that the real world application line included sports world application. You ask how this team failed with the same key people in key areas. That's easy, your premise is false. You need at least two lines and two pairs of d-men that are reliable and performing well to get into the playoffs. They've had 3rd wheel problems on both top two lines all year. They've had issues with the 4th d-man in some form or fashion all year with either Braun or Mueller/Dillon/Demers struggling. The only guy among that group one may call key is Braun but I don't think one key guy struggling is why the team is falling apart. But let's say this entire premise is true, we know DW has absolved himself of this because he wants a rebuild, right? So why are you blaming it on the players when you look at the entire roster and you see a clear lack of proven talent and a crap ton of inexperienced players in roles that are not just depth roles?
I didn't expect the Sharks to contend for the cup. Much less make the playoffs. Clearly, I don't believe this team can win after last years exit. How is that not clear to you? This team needs to rebuild. Period. Its probably why TMac hasn't been fired, yet. Thornton needs to go. Patty probably needs to go. TMac needs to go when the team is ready to make deep playoff runs.
With regards to McLellan and those three years, no they couldn't have because in the two years they went to the conference finals, they were badly outmatched by Vancouver and Chicago. Why? Easy, their blue line was pretty poor in comparison to those two teams. The Sharks were pretty easy for most playoff teams to adjust to because their weakness was pretty much the same. You chip it in on the left side and you have very good odds of getting the puck off the d-man on that side. Something that has never really changed since the 2005 lockout for this team. But when it comes more towards McLellan and why he may not be considered a success, he's had three first round exits. He has equaled Ron Wilson's playoff series number where Wilson went 5 for 9 and McLellan is 5 for 11. The difference being that TMac went to the conference finals once more but lost three times in the first round.
You already know what I think of TMac. No need to rehash it.
With regards to the Weber deal, when it comes to d-men it is certainly reasonable that after 12 years you would find one. But let's not pretend like the Sharks didn't have their chances under this regime to pick one of those guys and didn't. 2003 was just the first one. There's enough of them out there that in the time that DW has been GM, it's a reasonable expectation to have landed one. And hell, they don't even all have to be franchise level d-men either. How about just offensive ones that can make it and contribute at the NHL level? They've only been able to do that with Ehrhoff and Demers and they quickly gave up on them.
Demers was never given a complete fair shake in this organization. I blame TMac for it.
and No, it is not reasonable at all that we find a Shea Weber within 12 years. Again, how many teams have those players? I can only think of Shea Weber and Duncan Keith at this moment.
As for Hertl, it's tough to say that he's going to have the skating ability to be that level of a player either. We'll see but I'm not expecting it out of him.
The thing with Hertl is that he has such a knack for making incredible scoring opportunities and he knows it, so he starts moving. If he can develop and fine tune his ability to execute and finish then we have someone who is legitimately as good as Jonathan Toews. Again, we should all be ecstatic that we have someone like him.
As for Setoguchi, that's such a hypocritical statement to make. You can't praise them for projecting him out to be a loser and trading him then go back and say it was a good pick because that didn't happen, did it?
Uh, you absolutely could be glad that you dodged a bullet. Thats not being a hypocrite. Thats just being smart. For example, I think Jack Johnson is complete ****, and LA was smart to sell him to the Jackets for what they got.
Also, pretty sure the issues that made him available to trade were the same issues that were there when they drafted him. The fact that they took him over Kopitar only makes it worse because they're looking for the wrong things in prospects at the time but that has been a common theme with this regime.
At the time, Setoguchi was a better choice. The org probably thought that he was going to be a great forechecking and score 30 goals every year. They thought he might grow up if he was surrounded with responsible individuals. He didn't. We saw it. We sold high. Came out on top.
Well, for one he didn't really do what he said he was going to do. Because first of all, he said he was going to rebuild. So here's the problem you have here. If you say that they are going to rebuild and he did rebuild then you can't say that they have the key players in key spots and are just underperforming because if they have those key players in those key spots then they aren't rebuilding. So which is it?
They're rebuilding. I don't want them to make the playoffs. That hurts the bottom line of the rebuild. God forbid we become the Flames.
DW did actually pick Hannan because he re-signed him. DW did pick Irwin because he re-signed him and kept him. If he wanted Mueller in the lineup, he certainly has options to remove players playing over him or canning the coach refusing to play who he wants if he doesn't agree. But just the mere fact that the coach and the GM have not really been on the same page is a crack. DW is certainly involved with the cuts at training camp. He's there evaluating with TMac. They do cuts in conjunction. When it comes to who stays on the roster, nothing TMac does happens without DW's approval.
DW isn't interested in being the coach or doing coach things. Thats delusional. There is nothing to suggest that DW micro manages the team. TMac says he has a good relationship with DW in all previous reports. I am not so sure about it right now. I am sure DW certainly is still pissed about the fact that TMac has clearly lost the room and thats why they melted down. That never looks good, and certainly doesn't feel good either.
Your last bit is hilarious because the only reason why the DW-Thornton spat even happened in the first place is because DW felt like he had to answer to a season ticket holder that was not satisfied. It's just hilarious that you continue to argue against a concept that the team has said they go by and practice. I mean, come on man. DW and TMac both have said in so many words or even specifically that it is a results-oriented business. So either they're wrong, the people in said business, or you're wrong. I'm probably going to go with you being wrong.
DW didn't feel anything. Selling tickets helps the organization, and thats the bottom line. What DW probably didn't expect is for Joe Thornton to react the way he did. In fact, when the captaincy was taken from him, I am sure DW probably told him something to the extent that its ok to be proud but at this point and this critical turn in this organization you need to knock that **** off and be professional.
I can only speculate so much about what DW and Thornton have talked about behind closed doors, but we all know it sure wasn't pleasant for either of them.