Doug Wilson speaks on taking C from Joe: Joe tells DW to "Shut his mouth"

[Pinkfloyd]

So what exactly is Joe doing that is inhibiting the Sharks from winning a cup in ya'lls minds? Is he lashing out at players who work too hard and want to win too much? Just being the best player on the team and not the super very best player on the team? Preventing the signing of other good players with his albatross of a 6.75M contract for two more years?

I mean seriously what changes for the better on this team if Joe is gone?

That depends on if you believe DW and Larry Robinson because any locker room issues regarding Jumbo stems from the comments from those guys.

Whether or not Jumbo is a problem in the dressing room is up for debate. Either way, he is not the biggest problem to me. He is certainly not the only problem. They have a lot of them.

But there is no way to make changes for the better in the immediate without Joe. However, that doesn't mean that they're not better off doing it. The sooner they get on to legitimately rebuilding this franchise, the better they will be. This type of season is what's on the horizon the longer they hold on especially since they're not all pulling on the same rope anymore.

 

[HipCzech]

It says that he took a discount to get a NMC for a reason and doesn't want to uproot his family to play somewhere else for two years before coming right back here anyway when he retires. He has literally zero incentive to move and the team sucking is not his responsibility. His only responsibility is his own play which has not been an issue and is unlikely to become an issue during his contract. The GM is the only person who has a responsibility for the overall team, not one of the players, especially not one who is supposedly no longer the leader of the team. Joe can do whatever the **** he wants.

Yup he can continue to put up hall of fame points in the regular season and then become stubborn one dimensional Joe in the playoffs. Leading the team to ignore what the coach says and lashing out at rookies. I know I'm looking forward to 2 more years of it!

 

[Bizz]

DW in full damage control mode now. Backpedalling won't save your job, you hack.

 

[weastern bias]

Thats what I was saying though. IF Wilson stays around and continues the rebuild and does nothing to improve the 'now' team and Thornton still sticks around we can absolutely with confidence infer that, that was the entire point of why I said that. What then?

It all depends on how you see Joe thinking it out

What it says to me is that Joe still believes he and the Sharks can get it done

I don't agree with him, but Joe is a very proud and talented athlete

I think his reaction to Doug's "tomorrow team" rhetoric was to prove him wrong, and he's going to waste his final years (however many are left) in San Jose toiling in mediocrity until he fades into obscurity

Unfortunately for us, Doug wasn't wrong, but made all the wrong moves

 

[HipCzech]

So what exactly is Joe doing that is inhibiting the Sharks from winning a cup in ya'lls minds? Is he lashing out at players who work too hard and want to win too much? Just being the best player on the team and not the super very best player on the team? Preventing the signing of other good players with his albatross of a 6.75M contract for two more years?

I mean seriously what changes for the better on this team if Joe is gone?

Winning a cup? WTH? We're rebuilding son. The window is closed.

 

[weastern bias]

Winning a cup? WTH? We're rebuilding son. The window is closed.

I WISH we were rebuilding

We're treading water

 

[Le Rosbeef]

I WISH we were rebuilding

We're treading water

Winner!

 

[Le Rosbeef]

So what exactly is Joe doing that is inhibiting the Sharks from winning a cup in ya'lls minds?

He's not preventing the team winning a Cup. He's simply not good enough to do it on his own.

He's reaching the end of his career. If he's bothered about winning a cup, he should be moved. At least the team can get some assets back for him.

I don't think Joe is that bothered. Besides, if he thinks he's going to win one in SJ - realistically, not just soundbiting - he's more deluded than I ever imagined. The window is firmly shut to anyone with their eyes open.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I think you're deliberately misinterpreting what I said so I will clarify. Joe can do whatever the **** he wants with regards to his contract. If the team didn't want him here for the length of the contract then they shouldn't have given it to him. If they're changing their minds now then they have the option of buying him out. Joe has no obligation to consent to a trade after leaving millions of ****ing dollars on the table to get the NMC that he is now taking advantage of.

And where's your post calling Marleau a cancer for not asking to be traded since he's the one actually playing like **** this year ?

One, if I was deliberately misinterpreting what you said, you would have no need to clarify. You said he could do whatever he wants. Now that you've clarified, we can go off of that. I agree that Joe doesn't have any obligation to consent to a trade. It's his contractual right and the team really only has the option of buying him out. That doesn't mean that a GM, be it DW or a new GM, shouldn't be looking to convince him to go. I agree that he left money on the table for that clause and he can use it how he sees fit. But if he wants to go to a winning team, chances are he would have to sign for less but accepting a trade may allow him to keep his full contract. It's something for him to think about in this situation if and when it comes to that.

As for your Marleau comment, I didn't call Thornton a cancer in the first place. That was a hypothetical and that hypothetical was based on an attitude of being able to do whatever the hell he wants, not because he's having a so-called bad year. I've never called Thornton out for not asking to be traded and I never would. People have their own priorities whatever they may be and he negotiated for that clause so he can exercise that as he sees fit. I have no problems with that.

You may want to be careful on when you call someone out for deliberately misinterpreting what you say when you're not interpreting others and what they say correctly at all.

 

[HipCzech]

It all depends on how you see Joe thinking it out

What it says to me is that Joe still believes he and the Sharks can get it done

I don't agree with him, but Joe is a very proud and talented athlete

I think his reaction to Doug's "tomorrow team" rhetoric was to prove him wrong, and he's going to waste his final years (however many are left) in San Jose toiling in mediocrity until he fades into obscurity

Unfortunately for us, Doug wasn't wrong, but made all the wrong moves

Yup I think this is another thing that's happening. JT and a certain group in the locker room don't want to believe the window is closed. Lobbying for Niemi. Lobbying for Boyle last year?

IF DW had let JT and PM walk in free agency last year, people would have rioted. Last year it was still only "retooling". Then the final crown jewel of playoff disasters and the team shows their true mental fortitude/gutz.

In hindsight, DW should have traded them at the deadline last year if they wouldn't resign without NMCs. He gambled that he would be able to persuade them to waive sometime in the next 3 years. We'll see. He might not even be GM.

I think what's becoming more clear is that Hasso doesn't want a full rebuild (Burns, Pavs, JT, PM) for whatever reasons (ticket sales, TV contract negotiation, whatever). So everyone needs to buckle down and accept that we're not going full Buffalo. It will be a longer pro-cess.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Yup I think this is another thing that's happening. JT and a certain group in the locker room don't want to believe the window is closed.

IF DW had let JT and PM walk in free agency last year, people would have rioted. Last year it was still only "retooling". Then the final crown jewel of playoff disasters and the team shows their true mental fortitude/gutz.

In hindsight, DW should have traded them at the deadline last year if they wouldn't resign without NMCs. He gambled that he would be able to persuade them to waive sometime in the next 3 years. We'll see. He might not even be GM.

I think what's becoming more clear is that Hasso doesn't want a full rebuild (Burns, Pavs, JT, PM) for whatever reasons (ticket sales, TV contract negotiation, whatever). So everyone needs to buckle down and accept that we're not going full Buffalo. It will be a longer pro-cess.

DW wasn't going to be able to trade Thornton and Marleau last year at the deadline. They had NMC's in that contract as well. It was let them walk or re-sign. That's it.

 

[hockeyball]

I just had a funny thought I figured was worth sharing. Funny in a morbid way at least.

Maybe this is what happened:

Doug: "Joe, I'd like to talk about moving you somewhere you have a shot at a cup before you retired, are there any teams you would consider?"

Joe: "No Doug, I like it here, I'm not going anywhere"

Doug: "Ok, well, see, the thing is, we've had some complaints about your treatment of some of the younger players"

Joe: "They are just little *****es, I'm mother****ing Joe Thornton"

Doug: "Right... ok... I uh, forget it"

* Few weeks pass *

Joe: "What the hell Doug, why would you say that publicly??"

Doug: "Oh sorry Joe, my bad, I didn't know that would upset you."

Joe: "Well, it's not cool man, don't say stuff like that"

Doug: "I'll try, but you know, if you are really sore about it I could find you another place to..."

Joe: "NO DOUG"

* Time Passes *

Joe: "Doug, you traded Marleau, Pavelski, Burns, Niemi AND Couture, what the hell man??"

Doug: "Oh yah, you know we are rebuilding, I think I told you..."

Joe: "Whatever man, just trade me, I'll accept a trade to..."

Doug: "Whow there, backup son, you said you wanted to ride out your contract and I heard you. So, we are going to go ahead and keep you around for the entire length of our contract. Thanks for stopping by!"

 

[HipCzech]

DW wasn't going to be able to trade Thornton and Marleau last year at the deadline. They had NMC's in that contract as well. It was let them walk or re-sign. That's it.

Oh ****, I completely forgot that!!!!! Well then hell, then I'm even less shocked that he gambled on resigning them.

Too bad we've become the Toronto of the Western conference. Hey maybe DW has some agreement that if we take the press heat away from Toronto, they will trade us Kessel for a 3rd round pick?

 

[hockeyball]

Oh ****, I completely forgot that!!!!! Well then hell, then I'm even less shocked that he gambled on resigning them.

Too bad we've become the Toronto of the Western conference. Hey maybe DW has some agreement that if we take the press heat away from Toronto, they will trade us Kessel for a 3rd round pick?

Hehe. I think it's more likely that one or the other (Marleau or JT) has some kind of playoff clause in their contract which opens up the NMC to a small list or something. Either way, noticing how Marleau has been left out of all of these recent statements I have a feeling he's already ok with a trade and just waiting for Wilson to find one. And while my previous post was in jest, I could absolutely see Wilson (if he's still around) trading Marleau and Burns just to isolate and irritate Joe.

 

[Irbes Mask]

I think what's becoming more clear is that Hasso doesn't want a full rebuild (Burns, Pavs, JT, PM) for whatever reasons (ticket sales, TV contract negotiation, whatever). So everyone needs to buckle down and accept that we're not going full Buffalo. It will be a longer pro-cess.

You could have gleaned this back in July. These season has played out just as it was expected to. It's a transitional year. There were always going to be growing pains. That there are still people out there wallowing so deeply in denial about this is mind boggling.

Oh ****, I completely forgot that!!!!! Well then hell, then I'm even less shocked that he gambled on resigning them.

Too bad we've become the Toronto of the Western conference. Hey maybe DW has some agreement that if we take the press heat away from Toronto, they will trade us Kessel for a 3rd round pick?

This may surprise you but the Sharks are in no way Toronto, it can get much worse. Much. This is not close to rock bottom.

 

[Led Zappa]

You could have gleaned this back in July. These season has played out just as it was expected to. It's a transitional year. There were always going to be growing pains. That there are still people out there wallowing so deeply in denial about this is mind boggling.

It really is.

 

[HipCzech]

You could have gleaned this back in July. These season has played out just as it was expected to. It's a transitional year. There were always going to be growing pains. That there are still people out there wallowing so deeply in denial about this is mind boggling.

Oh I know about the denial. It's been painful to read on here since last summer. It's like some people don't understand how many moving parts are up in the air during a rebuild, especially if you're NOT doing a Buffalo. Because every small decision will impact future decisions and it's all constantly changing because of progress and the plans of other GMs. You have to see what you have before you make franchise changing decisions like moving Burns/Pavs. I personally didn't think the franchise would risk a full Buffalo, but hey it's not like we knew for sure. What were the tidbits that you gleaned?

This may surprise you but the Sharks are in no way Toronto, it can get much worse. Much. This is not close to rock bottom.

Oh I know, I was just messing around.

 

[Crazy Joe Divola]

Winning a cup? WTH? We're rebuilding son. The window is closed.

And Thornton being here hinders that how?

 

[Led Zappa]

And Thornton being here hinders that how?

By not letting us sign and trade him of course.

 

[HipCzech]

And Thornton being here hinders that how?

He's a hall of fame REGULAR season player. He's too good in the regular season and not good enough in the playoffs. He's messing up our low drafting position. And that's without getting into the locker room/leadership drama.

 

[LeftHeartInSF]

His ppg drop off in the playoffs is abysmal, one of the worst in the league for elite players.

Joe Thornton is a career 0.98 point per game regular season player


PLAYOFFS WITH THE SHARKS:

YEAR GAMES POINTS
2005-06 11 9
2006-07 11 11
2007-08 13 10
2008-09 6 5
2009-10 15 12
2010-11 18 17
2011-12 5 5
2012-13 11 10
2013-14 7 3

Last year was the first real dip.

So please don't spout nonsense.

 

[Crazy Joe Divola]

He's a hall of fame REGULAR season player. He's too good in the regular season and not good enough in the playoffs. He's messing up our low drafting position. And that's without getting into the locker room/leadership drama.

So he doesn't let us tank enough therefore trade him...riiight.

Hows about keeping a hall of fame center who the coaching staff says is great with working with the younger players around and worry about the overpaid god awful 3rd/4th liners and 5/6/7 D men this team likes to throw money at every year instead of giving time to those younger players?

And let's be real, give DW a low draft spot and he'll trade it for 2 2nds and a 7th or something. Our drafting leaves a bit to be desired.

 

[Led Zappa]

Nick Cotsonika ‏@cotsonika 5m5 minutes ago

Sharks GM on Joe Thornton: ‘Our relationship is at really good place’ http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-p...onship-is-at-really-good-place-195154890.html

Owner Hasso Plattner stepped in afterward and asked Thornton to call Wilson.

“We had a great conversation,” Wilson said. “He said all the things that I needed to hear. He and I are at a great place. We’re focused on the game upcoming tonight, which is a big game for us. It’s one of those things that just happens, but he’s a good man. He and I have had many colorful and creative conversations because we care so much. It’s just one of those situations, but we moved on probably two minutes after he called me. That's where we’re at.”

 

[magic school bus]

I WISH we were rebuilding

We're treading water

Yup.

 

[Crazy Joe Divola]

Nick Cotsonika ‏@cotsonika 5m5 minutes ago

Sharks GM on Joe Thornton: ‘Our relationship is at really good place’ http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-p...oe gets home after a night of drinking again.